Coronavirus

[TankTop5]

And it all depends on what state you are in.

Yes, based upon population density and hospital availability in a given region.

edit add:

were these policies that we had in place ahead of Covid or were these reactionary policies?

 

[Trell]

My point is, one person didn't cause the problems.

It's time for you to move on from your childish claims of "But, you like Trump!" and look for the real causes of the problem, which is: multiple failures, in many places, by many governments. This started in China and it appears that it was intentional, but you seem to have forgotten that.

Deflections and strawmen, and now with "appears China released the virus intentional" Anything to not hold Trump accountable.

With someone like Mrs Clinton as President tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Americans would not have died of Covid-19 needlessly, but you had Trump instead and to any rational person the results speaks for themselves. His malign influence is still strong in USA: Just look at "red" states like Florida and Texas. People continue to die needlessly because of this. There are several other conservative posters in this forum that more or less agree with this, and even goes further by calling Trump a mass murderer.

 

[Swerd]

Deflections and strawmen, and now with "appears China released the virus intentional" Anything to not hold Trump accountable.

For those who claim China created or released the virus intentionally, I challenge you to show us some credible evidence to support that claim.

The politicians who occasionally claim this, such as Rand Paul, Tom Cotton, and others are political opportunists, trolling for financial support from a small number of wealthy right-wing contributors. They're cynics – saying whatever it takes – just for the money.

The often repeated phrase, "All is fair in love, war, or politics" – includes lying. If you're not running for office, what excuse do you have in repeating those lies? And yes, until any kind of evidence appears to support these claims, they are lies.

 

[Mojo Warrior]

Russian disinformation (active measures) got us into this mess and is perpetuating it. Don't believe me? Do some research. Russia has been at war with the Western democracies for 70 years and it appears they are winning.

Russian Trolls Spread Wild Lie That COVID Vax Turns People Into Chimps

A Russian marketing firm used “Planet of the Apes” memes to try and discredit Western-made COVID-19 vaccines.

www.thedailybeast.com

This is a 47 minute documentary from 2018 and well worth watching. It explains 2021.

Covid-19-SARS-2 is the third coronavirus pandemic in the past 20 years. The first two were managed by competent US administrations. (SARS-1, MERS)

Eastern Europeans have heard the Russian disinformation (aka Fake News) their entire lives and readily recognize it for what it is. Prior to the Internet, Americans have been largely out of the reach of Russian disinformation. Now the Russians have weaponized it. They, literally, have tens of thousands of internet trolls working 24/7 impersonating Americans to spread disinformation.

The anti-vaxxers and those who propagate disinformation are known in Russia as "useful idiots".

 

[cpp]

Yes, based upon population density and hospital availability in a given region.

edit add:

were these policies that we had in place ahead of Covid or were these reactionary policies?

As in Fla, no hospital turned away patients, regardless if they came into the ER . And not sure what policies you are speaking of, unless its delaying elective surgeries . And no clue about the comment " ludicrous wages " .

 

[panteragstk]

As in Fla, no hospital turned away patients, regardless if they came into the ER . And not sure what policies you are speaking of, unless its delaying elective surgeries . And no clue about the comment " ludicrous wages " .

Basically, TX is offering to pay nurses double what they make to come here and work since our population chooses to let politics make medical decisions for them.

I'll see if I can find it, but there are reports of some specific hospitals having to close their ER because they simply have too many patients.

 

[cpp]

Basically, TX is offering to pay nurses double what they make to come here and work since our population chooses to let politics make medical decisions for them.

I'll see if I can find it, but there are reports of some specific hospitals having to close their ER because they simply have too many patients.

I do know a lot of hospital nurses around Miami are being offered more money to leave the hospital and go into a local practice. https://www.nbcmiami.com/investigations/covid-19-surge-leading-to-hospital-staff-shortages/2522021/

 

[Mr._Clark]

Russian disinformation (active measures) got us into this mess and is perpetuating it. Don't believe me? Do some research. Russia has been at war with the Western democracies for 70 years and it appears they are winning.

Russian Trolls Spread Wild Lie That COVID Vax Turns People Into Chimps

A Russian marketing firm used “Planet of the Apes” memes to try and discredit Western-made COVID-19 vaccines.

www.thedailybeast.com

This is a 47 minute documentary from 2018 and well worth watching. It explains 2021.

Covid-19-SARS-2 is the third coronavirus pandemic in the past 20 years. The first two were managed by competent US administrations. (SARS-1, MERS)

Eastern Europeans have heard the Russian disinformation (aka Fake News) their entire lives and readily recognize it for what it is. Prior to the Internet, Americans have been largely out of the reach of Russian disinformation. Now the Russians have weaponized it. They, literally, have tens of thousands of internet trolls working 24/7 impersonating Americans to spread disinformation.

The anti-vaxxers and those who propagate disinformation are known in Russia as "useful idiots".

I believe you. This has been mentioned in this thread previously (e.g. post #4977).

China has also actively participated in vaccine disinformation efforts.

An additional problem is our burgeoning population of home grown less than useless (to us) idiots (I'm just echoing your last comment, of course). A significant portion of the population appears to be very susceptible to this. Ironically, they seem to be fond of calling others who are not as gullible "sheeple."

Russia, China sow disinformation to undermine trust in Western vaccines: EU

Russian and Chinese media are systematically seeking to sow mistrust in Western COVID-19 vaccines in their latest disinformation campaigns aimed at dividing the West, a European report said on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

The same ppl on Reddit are here now spreading BS.

Could you be a little more precise? Do you disbelieve the State Department's Global Engagement Center?

>>>Both Russia and China have worked to promote their own vaccines through messaging that undermines American and European vaccination programs, according to the State Department’s Global Engagement Center. But in addition to overt messaging promoting their own vaccines, Moscow has also spread conspiracy theories. Last year, the department began warning about how Russia was using fringe websites to promote doubts around vaccinations.<<<

Russian Disinformation Targets Vaccines and the Biden Administration (Published 2021)

A new campaign appears to be spreading falsehoods about the potential for forced inoculations against Covid-19.

www.nytimes.com

GEC Special Report: Russia's Pillars of Disinformation and Propaganda - United States Department of State

The report outlines the five pillars of Russia's disinformation and propaganda ecosystem and how these pillars work together to create a media multiplier effect. Russia’s disinformation presents a threat, but it does not stand unopposed. The U.S. government, our allies and partner governments...

www.state.gov

 

[TankTop5]

Russia may have eclipsed their first successful misinformation campaign which was Roswell with Covid.

They have been stirring the pot since WWII ended and will continue to do so, hand wringing about it won’t accomplish anything and last I checked America is still a free country and even Russia gets to practice free speech here.

 

[TankTop5]

As to Trump and Covid he actually spent all the money, got all the research done that we got the vaccines this fast and simply left quarantines and restrictions up to the various States. Trump also received the vaccine and has said multiple times that everyone should get vaccinated so as to his actions on Covid he has a great record. This obviously has nothing to do with the dumb stuff that comes out of his mouth however and I’m not speaking toward anything else.

In all honesty I wanted Trump to drain the swamp and it takes a swamp monster to get to the bottom. The only problem with this in hindsight is there’s a never ending supply of people willing to volunteer themselves to refill it.

 

[TLS Guy]

For those who claim China created or released the virus intentionally, I challenge you to show us some credible evidence to support that claim.

The politicians who occasionally claim this, such as Rand Paul, Tom Cotton, and others are political opportunists, trolling for financial support from a small number of wealthy right-wing contributors. They're cynics – saying whatever it takes – just for the money.

The often repeated phrase, "All is fair in love, war, or politics" – includes lying. If you're not running for office, what excuse do you have in repeating those lies? And yes, until any kind of evidence appears to support these claims, they are lies.

I think lies are far too strong a word to use. That fact is, that it is a possibility that has to stay on the table.

I'm now of the view that the origin of this virus was probably not a natural occurrence. It is far more likely that this virus was created in a lab. I agree that its course has been highly atypical for a zoonotic occurrence. I'm far from alone in that view. I would say that is now the dominant opinion among professionals on this issue, in the UK certainly. The UK has a long track record of surveillance and research on these issues, relying especially on Porton Down, as well as MI5. I should state that Porton Down has played an outside role in the development of mass genome testing and widely sharing this technology. Without it we would all be in a much worse place now tracking variants. For months Porton Down was the major reference for world genome decoding and the lab of reference for the WHO.

The issue in my view, was the release intentional or accidental? Unfortunately we likely will never know. However an economic analysis even in Japan, has shown that China has gained an economic advantage from the pandemic.

One thing is clear, that China has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the start of the pandemic and deliberately obfuscate its origins. That can not be denied.

Honestly, Swerd I don't know why you want to give China a pass on this. There is abundant evidence they have a litany of culpabilities in this pandemic.

 

[Dude#1279435]

As to Trump and Covid he actually spent all the money, got all the research done that we got the vaccines this fast and simply left quarantines and restrictions up to the various States. Trump also received the vaccine and has said multiple times that everyone should get vaccinated so as to his actions on Covid he has a great record. This obviously has nothing to do with the dumb stuff that comes out of his mouth however and I’m not speaking toward anything else.

In all honesty I wanted Trump to drain the swamp and it takes a swamp monster to get to the bottom. The only problem with this in hindsight is there’s a never ending supply of people willing to volunteer themselves to refill it.

I beg to differ.....

"It's a democratic hoax!"
The WH Lawn Party
The Woodward Tapes
Disappearing for two months after the election
and obviously Jan. 6th

 

[highfigh]

Deflections and strawmen, and now with "appears China released the virus intentional" Anything to not hold Trump accountable.

With someone like Mrs Clinton as President tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Americans would not have died of Covid-19 needlessly, but you had Trump instead and to any rational person the results speaks for themselves. His malign influence is still strong in USA: Just look at "red" states like Florida and Texas. People continue to die needlessly because of this. There are several other conservative posters in this forum that more or less agree with this, and even goes further by calling Trump a mass murderer.

You really have an unnatural fixation on Trump. Get help. What did he have to do with the spread in other countries when their policies caused the virus to spread? What did those countries have to do with the spread in the US? Same answer- nothing.

You blame Trump, then mention other states when he's not in office. Those Governors would have done the same if he had been in office and in WI, the virus cases have increased greatly, even though the state is mostly Democrat, other than a few areas. Milwaukee is stupidly Democrat, even though it has been circling the drain for decades- how does your favorite pincushion fit in here? The last time a Republican was elected as Mayor was 105 years ago.

I remember Sweden having some problems with COVID- how did Trump cause that? How did he cause a nurse in Germany to allegedly inject saline into roughly 6000 people, rather than the vaccine?

Trump screwed the pooch, but he didn't single-handedly cause this, nor can you be certain that HRC would have prevented it. She doesn't give a poop about the American public- don't kid yourself.

 

[highfigh]

I think lies are far too strong a word to use. That fact is, that it is a possibility that has to stay on the table.

I'm now of the view that the origin of this virus was probably not a natural occurrence. It is far more likely that this virus was created in a lab. I agree that its course has been highly atypical for a zoonotic occurrence. I'm far from alone in that view. I would say that is now the dominant opinion among professionals on this issue, in the UK certainly. The UK has a long track record of surveillance and research on these issues, relying especially on Porton Down, as well as MI5. I should state that Porton Down has played an outside role in the development of mass genome testing and widely sharing this technology. Without it we would all be in a much worse place now tracking variants. For months Porton Down was the major reference for world genome decoding and the lab of reference for the WHO.

The issue in my view, was the release intentional or accidental? Unfortunately we likely will never know. However an economic analysis even in Japan, has shown that China has gained an economic advantage from the pandemic.

One thing is clear, that China has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the start of the pandemic and deliberately obfuscate its origins. That can not be denied.

Honestly, Swerd I don't know why you want to give China a pass on this. There is abundant evidence they have a litany of culpabilities in this pandemic.

According to Mirriam-Webster's definition, a lie means "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive". How is it too strong a word? Whether intentionally or accidentally, saying it didn't come from Wuhan is a lie. They lied, cheated and stole before the Pandemic and the country's human rights violation list is as long as the equator- why would they not see the million+ deaths as an 'acceptable loss'? How many people have died as a direct result of the oppression of the Chinese government, just in the last century?

 

[GO-NAD!]

I think lies are far too strong a word to use. That fact is, that it is a possibility that has to stay on the table.

I'm now of the view that the origin of this virus was probably not a natural occurrence. It is far more likely that this virus was created in a lab. I agree that its course has been highly atypical for a zoonotic occurrence. I'm far from alone in that view. I would say that is now the dominant opinion among professionals on this issue, in the UK certainly. The UK has a long track record of surveillance and research on these issues, relying especially on Porton Down, as well as MI5. I should state that Porton Down has played an outside role in the development of mass genome testing and widely sharing this technology. Without it we would all be in a much worse place now tracking variants. For months Porton Down was the major reference for world genome decoding and the lab of reference for the WHO.

The issue in my view, was the release intentional or accidental? Unfortunately we likely will never know. However an economic analysis even in Japan, has shown that China has gained an economic advantage from the pandemic.

One thing is clear, that China has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the start of the pandemic and deliberately obfuscate its origins. That can not be denied.

Honestly, Swerd I don't know why you want to give China a pass on this. There is abundant evidence they have a litany of culpabilities in this pandemic.

I think lies are far too strong a word to use. That fact is, that it is a possibility that has to stay on the table.

I'm now of the view that the origin of this virus was probably not a natural occurrence. It is far more likely that this virus was created in a lab. I agree that its course has been highly atypical for a zoonotic occurrence. I'm far from alone in that view. I would say that is now the dominant opinion among professionals on this issue, in the UK certainly. The UK has a long track record of surveillance and research on these issues, relying especially on Porton Down, as well as MI5. I should state that Porton Down has played an outside role in the development of mass genome testing and widely sharing this technology. Without it we would all be in a much worse place now tracking variants. For months Porton Down was the major reference for world genome decoding and the lab of reference for the WHO.

The issue in my view, was the release intentional or accidental? Unfortunately we likely will never know. However an economic analysis even in Japan, has shown that China has gained an economic advantage from the pandemic.

One thing is clear, that China has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the start of the pandemic and deliberately obfuscate its origins. That can not be denied.

Honestly, Swerd I don't know why you want to give China a pass on this. There is abundant evidence they have a litany of culpabilities in this pandemic.

Asking for credible evidence and giving them a pass are two different things entirely. I don't trust the Chinese regime to give the correct time of day, but suggesting a deliberate release is a serious allegation. I've said it before - it would be tantamount to an attack with a weapon of mass destruction. I can't see any benefit that could possibly justify such a risk. If it was ever revealed as such, the rest of the world would be forced to respond - economic and diplomatic isolation would be tough on the rest of the world, but devastating for China.

 

[TankTop5]

Asking for credible evidence and giving them a pass are two different things entirely. I don't trust the Chinese regime to give the correct time of day, but suggesting a deliberate release is a serious allegation. I've said it before - it would be tantamount to an attack with a weapon of mass destruction. I can't see any benefit that could possibly justify such a risk. If it was ever revealed as such, the rest of the world would be forced to respond - economic and diplomatic isolation would be tough on the rest of the world, but devastating for China.

The fact is State sponsored mass biological attacks on humanity get your cities turned to glass. China is a lot of things and devious long term intelligent planning for their best interest is at the top of the list, being annihilated by NATO isn’t on their list of things to do.

 

[TankTop5]

I beg to differ.....

"It's a democratic hoax!"
The WH Lawn Party
The Woodward Tapes
Disappearing for two months after the election
and obviously Jan. 6th

Trump didn’t disappear anywhere, c’mon man!

List of presidential trips made by Donald Trump (2020–21) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Swerd]

I think lies are far too strong a word to use. That fact is, that it is a possibility that has to stay on the table.

Asking for credible evidence and giving them a pass are two different things entirely. I don't trust the Chinese regime to give the correct time of day, but suggesting a deliberate release is a serious allegation.

First of all, thank you GO-NAD for saying that. I'm certainly not giving China a pass. I directed my 'credible evidence' comment at the political right-wing in the US. They want us to believe their incredible claims about China without any evidence, credible or otherwise.

We certainly cannot rule out China's involvement in the origin and emergence of Covid-19. China has prevented us from learning enough about those events to keep that as a possibility. At the same time, I will not accept arguments of China's complicity from right-wing politicians in the US, or their supporters, without any evidence at all. The right-wing GOP politicians have already provided us abundant evidence that they lie whenever it suits their needs.

Like, GO-NAD, I don't trust China at all. They are a major military and economic threat to the USA and the rest of the western world. Their on-going effort to claim the South China Sea as Chinese sovereign territory amounts to nothing less than a nuclear threat to the USA as well as the rest of the world. How? The Chinese have developed long-range submarines capable of launching long-range missiles with nuclear warheads. Their largest submarine base is located on the island of Hainan. Those submarines must travel through the South China Sea – where the water is shallow – before they reach the deep waters of the Pacific Ocean. Unless the Chinese control the water of the South China Sea and the airspace above it, those submarines will be detected and tracked, diminishing their threat. This also explains why China is actively trying to end Taiwan's independance and neutralize any US influence in the Philippines. Look on a map to see their location relative to the South China Sea. And that's only one example of how China threatens the west.

 

[TankTop5]

To lighten the mood my 12 year old daughter made me breakfast