Comparison between the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the SVS PB12-Ultra

[Ron Temple]

LMAO ... Leave it to you to come up with an LFE request for Happy Gilmore... the scary part ... it WOULD be fun.

...................

Ok ... back to serious stuff - We now have David Gilmour's new "On an Island" ... it is somewhat a mix of old CSNY (Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young for you Gen Y slackers ... ) and Pink Floyd.

Between Fagen reminding me of the old Steely Dan days, and Gilmour's stylings here reminding me of 70's Floyd/CSNY, I am REALLY wondering how I got out of school without using drugs ...

These discs are both new - so no winner will be picked in the subwoofer wars - but both are sounding good ... again.

Pick up the DVD A/DTS disk "Deadwing" from Porcupine Tree...Floydish, CSNYish, extremely good bass tracks, really great 5.1 mix, I can't stop listening to this one.

 

[Geoh]

Pick up the DVD A/DTS disk "Deadwing" from Porcupine Tree...Floydish, CSNYish, really great 5.1 mix, I can't stop listening to this one.

I second that emotion......

geoh

 

[mike c]

you can afford to buy all this stuff and not afford to buy a digital camera!? get yourself a canon 350d.

 

[craigsub]

you can afford to buy all this stuff and not afford to buy a digital camera!? get yourself a canon 350d.

We have THREE digital cameras, including a Canon Rebel 6.3 mega pixal thingy ... she just has issues with it... she is to her cameras what guys are to the remote ...

Here is a shot from last year, preparing for the loudspeaker shootout - those are Paradigm Studio 100 V.3's, Energy Veritas 2.4 i's and Onix Ref 3's ...

 

[Sheep]

We have THREE digital cameras, including a Canon Rebel 6.3 mega pixal thingy ... she just has issues with it... she is to her cameras what guys are to the remote ...

Here is a shot from last year, preparing for the loudspeaker shootout - those are Paradigm Studio 100 V.3's, Energy Veritas 2.4 i's and Onix Ref 3's ...

Aww, Veritas 2.4i's..... *drools*

Craig, I will give you so many chicklets for those!

SheepStar

 

[mulester7]

I can also say that even though the Turbo does add extension, I find the VTF-3HO to sound the best in the standard 22 Hz, two port position.

.....Craigsub, what sound quality differences did you hear using the turbo add-on?.....

 

[craigsub]

.....Craigsub, what sound quality differences did you hear using the turbo add-on?.....

Most of the problems were due to my not using the supplied "carpet grabber", which isolates the Turbo from the main subwoofer box. Even when there was not noticeable rattle, the "turbo" version was losing out in articulation to the non turbo.

With the isolator proerly installed, there are now quite a few scenarios in which the Turbo version performs better, IMO. The new Donald Fagen disc, "Batman Begins", WOTW, are all examples in which I prefer the Turbo.

However, last night, my wife and I watched "Armageddon" - and it has a lot of 25-30 Hz bass - the Non-Turbo configuration worked better. The Meteor shower in the beginning was a bit more visceral without the turbo.

Keep in mind, this is really anal stuff here - my wife gives me lots of sighs and eyerolls when I stop a scene, pop out the Turbo, and re-play the same scene - the differences are subtle.

With a week of hard core auditioning under my belt - I can say both Turbo and Non Turbo variations work quite well.

More to come on that - when the new pipe organ disc comes in from Germany

 

[---k---]

my wife gives me lots of sighs and eyerolls

You too!

I wish my wife would beleive me when I tell here that I'm not the only one!

 

[JonnyOzero3]

You too!

I wish my wife would beleive me when I tell here that I'm not the only one!

You should have seen my friends when I tried to stop a Halo tournament because I could tell my black level had been fiddled with by a firmware change. Haha

 

[greddy09sc]

Zono - For now, it is only clear the two subs are going to be very close in output - I think waiting until we get some good spring weather, and placing the subs about 100 feet away from any walls is the best approach before declaring a "winner" ...

Stevenn - The room we are in is a much easier room for a subwoofer than is our upstairs theater.

It is 44 x 14 x 7 feet, with a stairwell taking up some cubes ..

Here is a pic - think all concrete walls, and healthy room gain ..

Here is a pic from last month's X-Sub review - the VTF-3HO is located where the Velo is - with the Ultra immediately to the left. This pic was taken from the listening position, which is the sofa as shown in the first pic.

Craig,

I noticed the HSU is so much smaller than the SVS.

Yet, the dimension i got for the HO is 21H x 17W x 25D
and for the Ultra 25H x 18W x 25D.

But after seeing the picture, the HO looks like it's half the size of the Ultra (In width) Is my dimension wrong?

It's amazing how a sub that much smaller than the Ultra can produce just as much bass as the 'Large' ultra.

My living room is big. It is 16 x 20 with cathedral ceiling. But what makes my living large is that it opens directly into the kitchen that is 16 x 13 without cathedral ceiling. So it’s like a 16 x 33 room. The only thing that divides my living room and kitchen is a bar about 4 ft high and 6 ft long.

So, would you consider getting the ISD/2 since it has a bigger box and will maybe fill up my large living room space with more bass than than the HO?

Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Josuah]

That picture is of a Velodyne and an X-sub.

 

[Ajax]

Greddy09sc, if you are referring to the second photo in Craig's post which you quoted, you'll note that just above the photo, Craig says "Here is a pic from last month's X-Sub review - the VTF-3HO is located where the Velo is - with the Ultra immediately to the left." I can understand your being a little confused by that. As Joshua says, that photo is showing the large Velodyne DD18 (sub on the left) and the little, but potent, Onix/Rocket x-sub.

I'd wager that HSU, SVS, Velodyne and just about every sub maker wishes they could get the performance of a VTF-3 HO from a cabinet the size of the x-sub.

 

[greddy09sc]

Greddy09sc, if you are referring to the second photo in Craig's post which you quoted, you'll note that just above the photo, Craig says "Here is a pic from last month's X-Sub review - the VTF-3HO is located where the Velo is - with the Ultra immediately to the left." I can understand your being a little confused by that. As Joshua says, that photo is showing the large Velodyne DD18 (sub on the left) and the little, but potent, Onix/Rocket x-sub.

I'd wager that HSU, SVS, Velodyne and just about every sub maker wishes they could get the performance of a VTF-3 HO from a cabinet the size of the x-sub.

Ajax...You are correct. I apologize for the confusion. I guess I'm the one smoking crack

 

[craigsub]

My wife has promised to get some pics of all the newest stuff for me to post tonight. Hopefully that will kill any and all confusion ...

 

[JHixson]

Craig when you pull off the turbo do you recalibrate and bring the higher freqs to the same level they were with the turbo. Otherewise you would always notice a little more output when you pull the turbo off. Also if you were watching and entire movie without switching would you be able to tell if you were listening with or without turbo?

 

[greddy09sc]

Craig..

In your opinion. Do you think the HO will be better than the SVS ISD/2? I'm wondering because I have a large living room and I think two driver will fill up the room with more bass than the one driver on the HO.

What do you think?

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[craigsub]

JHixson, When running pink noise from TrueRTA into the VTF-3 HO, whether it was with or without turbo, both delivered the same SPL. Of course, the Turbo "spread" the lower octave a bit, and response below 25 Hz is shelved a bit lower, but it goes deeper.

So no, I don't change the SPL, because to do so would give the Turbo equipped sub a higher output above the tuning point, where the vast majority of bass resides. This would in turn make the Turbo sound relatively more powerful than the non turbo, or the SVS.

Hope that makes sense ...

greddy09 - That is a tough call. So far, the Turbo and Ultra are pretty close in objective terms. If memory serves, the Ultra will deliver 3-5 dB more SPL than will a single driver PB12-ISD ... so the dual driver PB12-ISD/2 should have the edge on the HO - especially above 30 Hz.

The question then remains about sound quality ... I know the VTF-3HO sounds very good - but without the ability to directly compare the SVS to it, I cannot comment in regards to how the PB12-ISD/2 stacks up.

 

[JHixson]

So no, I don't change the SPL, because to do so would give the Turbo equipped sub a higher output above the tuning point, where the vast majority of bass resides. This would in turn make the Turbo sound relatively more powerful than the non turbo, or the SVS.

And this would be bad?

 

[nick53]

Craig
Dont forget about King Kong on DVD out today, that could be fun.

 

[craigsub]

And this would be bad?

For an A/B style test, it would skew results.