Comparison between the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the SVS PB12-Ultra

[craigsub]

Craig
Dont forget about King Kong on DVD out today, that could be fun.

Yep - It looks like a great "fun style" movie.

 

[JonnyOzero3]

For an A/B style test, it would skew results.

Let me see if I follow correctly - you're saying that it would be like essentially calibrating one sub "hotter" than the other?

I guess that makes sense, but it still seems to me that this is a good thing - you can add the turbo to increase low bass, and then recalibrate to bring the upper levels back up. You end up with a deeper-extending sub with more SPL across the range. I guess the only time it wouldn't work is if you've already hit a point of max spl/output compression/too much distorition?

I guess the lower tuning point should lower upper freq max SPLs, but if the sub can handle being recalibrated at the volumes you are playing at, doesn't it seem like a good thing to do? It seems like this would be a "strength."

Sorry if I'm being unclear - just trying to understand. I guess it must mean that the subs wouldn't be on an equal footing, but I don't understand how that's possible since each will have different max SPL by freq anyhow.

Yeah I got myself confused Don't blame me, I'm learning as I go here

 

[craigsub]

Ok guys ... First, I checked the calibration on the PB12-Ultra in 16 Hz tuning, and made sure it was level matched to the VTF-3 HO.

When you run pink noise through the VTF-3 HO, let's use an 85 dB level. Whether or not you use the Turbo, the total SPL level remains the same. the 20 Hz signal is about 3 dB lower, but the 15 Hz signal is several dB higher.

You still get the same overall SPL.

 

[jakeman]

Using the SMS to equalize will undermine a key part of these listening tests since the sub with the inferior linearity will benefit at the expense of the more linear sub, a hallmark of your testing style as noted many times. Craig's approach is fine for his current purpose which is to compare each sub at the same location level matched with different music and movie selections. Level matching with pink noise is the accepted technique virtually all of us use so his method actually provides a more realistic comparison for most readers. Good well thought out stuff as usual from Craig.

 

[steve nn]

When I switch tunes I always recalibrate...well I know what to add or take away depending on the direction of the tune change. Couldn't you recalibrate both Craig, in changing tunes to keep everything as constant as possible? It generally comes down to just a notch or two on the SW setting.

I'm thinking out loud here..As Jakeman noted, if your level matching then they're the same, but then what FR do you deem best for doing so, or are you actually using a set of FR's?? Is the Ultra staying in the 16 with the HO running without the turbo and no cali......It just seems as though with the different eq application in the different tunes port plug/Turbo.. it would require recalibration of both units. Am I missing something..No tell what I'm opening myself up to with that last question.

 

[craigsub]

When I switch tunes I always recalibrate...well I know what to add or take away depending on the direction of the tune change. Couldn't you recalibrate both Craig, in changing tunes to keep everything as constant as possible? It generally comes down to just a notch or two on the SW setting.

I'm thinking out loud here..As Jakeman noted, if your level matching then they're the same, but then what FR do you deem best for doing so, or are you actually using a set of FR's?? Is the Ultra staying in the 16 with the HO running without the turbo and no cali......It just seems as though with the different eq application in the different tunes port plug/Turbo.. it would require recalibration of both units. Am I missing something..No tell what I'm opening myself up to with that last question.

With the Turbo, the unit is delivering 75 dB. Take out the Turbo, and it is still delivering 75 dB. What would you recalibrate it to ? Remember, the Turbo does not restrict air flow. This is not the same as putting in a port bung.

 

[steve nn]

With the Turbo, the unit is delivering 75 dB. Take out the Turbo, and it is still delivering 75 dB. What would you recalibrate it to ? Remember, the Turbo does not restrict air flow. This is not the same as putting in a port bung.

Ok I see. Well if your recalibrating between tunes with the Ultra then, it seems as precise as we need for a pic of the "deliverance of the goods". If the HO has any advantage because of this?.. maybe we should chalk it up to design then. It is what it is.

 

[craigsub]

Ok I see. Well if your recalibrating between tunes with the Ultra then, it seems as precise as we need for a pic of the "deliverance of the goods". If the HO has any advantage because of this?.. maybe we should chalk it up to design then. It is what it is.

I know it takes a bit for this stuff to ... well ... sink in. It makes it easier when you are measuring it yourself rather than trying to picture it from a guy typing ... lol

Take a look at some of the movie scenes as posted ... you will see the units are comparably set for FR.

And here are some pics ...

 

[JonnyOzero3]

Ok guys ... First, I checked the calibration on the PB12-Ultra in 16 Hz tuning, and made sure it was level matched to the VTF-3 HO.

When you run pink noise through the VTF-3 HO, let's use an 85 dB level. Whether or not you use the Turbo, the total SPL level remains the same. the 20 Hz signal is about 3 dB lower, but the 15 Hz signal is several dB higher.

You still get the same overall SPL.

Got it.

 

[JHixson]

JonnyOzero3,

Did you get your HO today I thought I saw a post from you yesterday at the HSU site. I would like your opinion also.

 

[zonomorph]

Craig, I was over at the SVS site and noticed that the PB-12 Plus/2 is exactly the same price as the Ultra. How does the Plus/2 compare to the ultra and HO?

 

[craigsub]

JonnyOzero3,

Did you get your HO today I thought I saw a post from you yesterday at the HSU site. I would like your opinion also.

Jonny ... What he said ....

 

[jmprader]

Jonny ... What he said ....

...my bet is that it is xmas all over again...HOHOHO.

 

[craigsub]

Here are some in room sweeps using the QuickSweep function of TrueRTA. TrueRTA's Quicksweep takes a 1/24th octave sweep - then allows a smoothing to be applied. This is with 1/6th octave smoothing.

This is the type of response one usually gets with no eq ... in fact, most are worse.

The PB12-Ultra ...

The VTF-3 HO with Turbo ...

The VTF-3 W/O turbo ...

 

[JonnyOzero3]

Did you get your HO today I thought I saw a post from you yesterday at the HSU site. I would like your opinion also.

Jonny ... What he said ....

When I said "got it" above...it was with dual meaning Just picked it up late from Fedex...working on unpacking and hooking it up now. The turbo box alone is bigger than the box my UFW-10 came in.

I'll post impressions, but keep in mind my sub history...

1) Klipsch Promedia 4.1
2) Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1
3) Rocket UFW-10
Now) Hsu VTF-3HO Turbo

So, I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed.

 

[JHixson]

When I said "got it" above...it was with dual meaning Just picked it up late from Fedex...working on unpacking and hooking it up now. The turbo box alone is bigger than the box my UFW-10 came in.

I'll post impressions, but keep in mind my sub history...

1) Klipsch Promedia 4.1
2) Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1
3) Rocket UFW-10
Now) Hsu VTF-3HO Turbo

So, I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed.

Well I am using a Klipsh KSW-10 while waiting for my HO.

 

[mike c]

i am at work right now (yes, im not working ... reading this stuff) only the pic with the Ultra driver facing outward with 1 port bung loaded for me (thanks to dial-up) ...

do you listen to the ultra like that? (driver facing forward, not downward) or did you do that just to show us the pic

if yes, did you ask SVS if the performance is the same between the two configurations? (downfiring with bottom plate vs. front firing without the plate)

 

[craigsub]

Craig, I was over at the SVS site and noticed that the PB-12 Plus/2 is exactly the same price as the Ultra. How does the Plus/2 compare to the ultra and HO?

It will have more output - especially above 20 Hz - and is a real bargain subwoofer.

 

[craigsub]

i am at work right now (yes, im not working ... reading this stuff) only the pic with the Ultra driver facing outward with 1 port bung loaded for me (thanks to dial-up) ...

do you listen to the ultra like that? (driver facing forward, not downward) or did you do that just to show us the pic

if yes, did you ask SVS if the performance is the same between the two configurations? (downfiring with bottom plate vs. front firing without the plate)

Mike ... SVS has the bassplate on all their box/12 inch subs to assure they will perform well on all surfaces. I prefer the front firing for SQ - and not just in the SVS - in the past, I have done the same with the Hsu VTF-3 Mark II and the ACI Maestro, as well as my old PB2+ from SVS.

I never asked SVS about this - there are quite a few guys doing this, but we are a group of ... fussy guys, when it comes to bass.

 

[mike c]

I see. thanks craig, carry on!