Can you hear a difference in Sound between Audio Amplifiers?

Do Amplifiers Sound Different?

  • Yes

    Votes: 101 62.3%
  • No

    Votes: 45 27.8%
  • crikets crickets....What?

    Votes: 16 9.9%

  • Total voters
    162
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I feel well educated enough. How about *you* elaborate on *your* argument, instead of rather pompous curt replies like this. You took reservation over “synergy” so I’d simply like to make sure I get your meaning. I can best do that with information about your point that isn’t so abridged.


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I think what he is getting at is that with moving coil speakers the issue tend to be the angle between voltage and current turning negative. This presents a particular problem if a dip in impedance coincides with a phase angle of -ve 45 say.

Electrostatic speakers present a capacitative load where the phase angle often turns positive in the high frequencies especially. This can and does result in some amps going into ultrasonic oscillation. Because it is ultrasonic you can not hear it. This usually blows up the amp. It can also damage the speaker. So if you are going to use electrostatic speakers you need to choose your amp with care. I would not drive one with a receiver for sure. To get the best results from an electrostatic speaker then Quad amps are strongly recommended as they are specifically designed to tolerate these difficult loading conditions. The Quad warranty has always said, "guaranteed to be stable under all loads."
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
I think what he is getting at is that with moving coil speakers the issue tend to be the angle between voltage and current turning negative. This presents a particular problem if a dip in impedance coincides with a phase angle of -ve 45 say.

Electrostatic speakers present a capacitative load where the phase angle often turns positive in the high frequencies especially. This can and does result in some amps going into ultrasonic oscillation. Because it is ultrasonic you can not hear it. This usually blows up the amp. It can also damage the speaker. So if you are going to use electrostatic speakers you need to choose your amp with care. I would not drive one with a receiver for sure. To get the best results from an electrostatic speaker then Quad amps are strongly recommended as they are specifically designed to tolerate these difficult loading conditions. The Quad warranty has always said, "guaranteed to be stable under all loads."
Where can you go to look at Quad amplifiers? Do they have a link or specific website I can check out. You've brought them up several times and have aroused my interest I'd like to take a look at them if you can point me in the right direction
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Where can you go to look at Quad amplifiers? Do they have a link or specific website I can check out. You've brought them up several times and have aroused my interest I'd like to take a look at them if you can point me in the right direction
Quad UK.

Their US agents are MoFI distribution out of Chicago.

I stick to the older ones, before the Chinese got their "muckers" on the company.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief

"Some amplifiers are audibly inaccurate., Sometimes they are made that way completely intentionally. Others are not. Therefore not all amps sound the same."
[the late Arnold Kruger, designer of the ABX comparator for conducting blind tests ]

I believe the above is true and it bothers me especially if high-fidelity (transparency) is the goal when purchasing audio equipment.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Samurai
"Some amplifiers are audibly inaccurate., Sometimes they are made that way completely intentionally. Others are not. Therefore not all amps sound the same." [the late Arnold Kruger, designer of the ABX comparator for conducting blind tests ]

I believe the above is true and it bothers me especially if high-fidelity (transparency) is the goal when purchasing audio equipment.
If you can read and understand specs, and the manufacturer publishes them as they should be published, you shouldn't have to worry if they satisfy what you consider as adequate for a high fidelity amplifier:

 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Im curious if the people who voted yes actually arrived at their conclusion using blind controlled listening tests.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
I think what he is getting at is that with moving coil speakers the issue tend to be the angle between voltage and current turning negative. This presents a particular problem if a dip in impedance coincides with a phase angle of -ve 45 say.

Electrostatic speakers present a capacitative load where the phase angle often turns positive in the high frequencies especially. This can and does result in some amps going into ultrasonic oscillation. Because it is ultrasonic you can not hear it. This usually blows up the amp. It can also damage the speaker. So if you are going to use electrostatic speakers you need to choose your amp with care. I would not drive one with a receiver for sure. To get the best results from an electrostatic speaker then Quad amps are strongly recommended as they are specifically designed to tolerate these difficult loading conditions. The Quad warranty has always said, "guaranteed to be stable under all loads."
Thanks Doc, your description is spot on. Hopefully Mr ATL is able to comprehend ......
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
Thanks Doc, your description is spot on. Hopefully Mr ATL is able to comprehend ......
Wow... Well, so much for having a decent discussion. Reading your posts clearly shows you are more on a mission to stroke your ego than anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
If you can read and understand specs, and the manufacturer publishes them as they should be published, you shouldn't have to worry if they satisfy what you consider as adequate for a high fidelity amplifier:

The problem with stated apecs is that they are far too abridged to be of much use, at least most of the time. Sometimes they are carefully manicured by the marketing department of the manufacturer to tout some sort of capability while not disclosing other trade offs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
I think what he is getting at is that with moving coil speakers the issue tend to be the angle between voltage and current turning negative. This presents a particular problem if a dip in impedance coincides with a phase angle of -ve 45 say.

Electrostatic speakers present a capacitative load where the phase angle often turns positive in the high frequencies especially. This can and does result in some amps going into ultrasonic oscillation. Because it is ultrasonic you can not hear it. This usually blows up the amp. It can also damage the speaker. So if you are going to use electrostatic speakers you need to choose your amp with care. I would not drive one with a receiver for sure. To get the best results from an electrostatic speaker then Quad amps are strongly recommended as they are specifically designed to tolerate these difficult loading conditions. The Quad warranty has always said, "guaranteed to be stable under all loads."
What measurement would be reliable to determine that this issue doesn’t happen?
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
Probably. They certainly don't know how to spec. it. Anyhow my amps are made in England. There have been reports of the Chinese mucking up the ground plane.
The way we have sold out to China is a disgrace. Its do good socialist governments at the bottom of it, who always actually impoverish populations further.
Hmm
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
Probably. They certainly don't know how to spec. it. Anyhow my amps are made in England. There have been reports of the Chinese mucking up the ground plane.
The way we have sold out to China is a disgrace. Its do good socialist governments at the bottom of it, who always actually impoverish populations further.
You don’t sound biased at all. lol


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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You don’t sound biased at all. lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What? No! Why--- TLS Guy biased? C'mon, man. :D

If they're not QUAD, made in England/British designed, or separates components (hells on all AVRs) - forget about it. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
All the above explains why DBT is a must.
Well, everyone is biased about something. Like I hate subs and speakers with internal amps. :D

And not everything needs a DBT test. Why? Because it's not THAT important at the end of the day - not important like medical/ drug studies - such as human studies for this COVID-19 vaccine.

For audio/video, people will recommend and swear by whatever they've had the most success with.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
All the above explains why DBT is a must.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for some reason I remember you having a different opinion about this. Have you recently changed your mind? This isn't a call out or anything, quite the opposite. It tells me that you don't reject evidence or the scientific process and are willing to see both sides of an argument, and that you're willing to change your view based on available evidence.

A lot of folks can't get past their own preconceptions (right or wrong) so they tend to be close minded to alternative thinking or new ideas.
 

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