Behringer A500 Amplifier: Objective Test Results

[Paul Spencer]

To those who have used this amp:

Does this amp effectively mute when powering up and down?

I have another Behringer product - Ultracurve - and although it has relays to mute inputs, it isn't reliable. Sometimes I get nasty noises when powering up and down. The problem is that this noise goes to the subs, which don't have muting/relays, so it results in a loud thump. Not very pleasant after a mellow listening session late at night when I'm all relaxed!

Currently I'm set up like this. Preamp > Ultracurve > Behringer EP2500 (power amp for the mains) > Rythmik plate amps high level input then sent to DIY speakers via high level outputs

When powering up first time, the EP2500 doesn't let the noises through. I think it's because it takes a little time to charge up the power supply, because once powered up, if I turn it off and then on again before the PS caps have discharged, I get a nasty turn on thump. When turning it off, I don't get any nasty noises. It seems to cut certain thumps from other components on powering down.

I've been considering using A500 in place of the EP2500. My mains don't need 650w and I don't like the fan. I bought the amp for subs that I no longer use, and my subs now have 370w each. So eventually, I'll either put in a quieter fan or use a quiet power amp. I have two hesitations about the A500:

1. Power - I use open baffle speakers which need some boost from 80 (sub xo) - 200 Hz and I wonder if this could put me into clipping territory where the EP2500 is never going to go.

2. Powering up/down issues

Can anyone enlighten me? I'd like to hear from those who have used the A500 for long enough to tell me how it behaves with powering up and down. Is it reliable enough to keep thumps from other components from getting through? Does it work without introducing any of it's own noises?

 

[redgy_98]

A500

Thank you All

i'm new at this web i have read all the post from forum concerning this amp. i have to talk all you for all the info that you provide in there. i have to say you guy have open my eyes alot. Thank you

i'm a big collection o music but just getting to buy equipement i owed
pretty simple system that i wanted to upgrade to start when i was doing my research i have come to the conclsion to build my own amp, but until stumble to the forum. i was about spend the money to build that amp i wanted.But now i have change my mind i really pick up 4 of those amps as soon it posible.before i do anything i want some advice from all you in this subject please. here what i have present now:

Speaker: a set of Klipsch
2 tower Rf82 front
1 rc64 center
2 rb81 rear
amp Yamaha RXV4600

Please if any of can please let me know what is the best setting that i can do with this

thank you sinerely yours

Pierre

 

[Paul Spencer]

For some reason I can't seem to read page 53 of this thread! It just keeps taking me to page 52!

Pierre,

I'm not sure what you are asking!

I will comment on the diy aspect. I've built diy amps (one actually), preamps, speakers, subs and a lot of other projects. In terms of getting a result for a given amount of money, you can't beat diy speakers and subs. That's where you can do it for much less, or much better for a given amount. Of course, that is only beyond entry level point. There are some speakers and amps, usually not considered true hifi level, which are cheaper than you can get the parts for.

I don't think there's any real money to be saved in diy amps. I once heard a comparison of a diy chip amp and a commercial amp, both costing about the same. The diy wasn't as good, although the difference was subtle.

 

[WmAx]

Thank you All

i'm new at this web i have read all the post from forum concerning this amp. i have to talk all you for all the info that you provide in there. i have to say you guy have open my eyes alot. Thank you

i'm a big collection o music but just getting to buy equipement i owed
pretty simple system that i wanted to upgrade to start when i was doing my research i have come to the conclsion to build my own amp, but until stumble to the forum. i was about spend the money to build that amp i wanted.But now i have change my mind i really pick up 4 of those amps as soon it posible.before i do anything i want some advice from all you in this subject please. here what i have present now:

Speaker: a set of Klipsch
2 tower Rf82 front
1 rc64 center
2 rb81 rear
amp Yamaha RXV4600

Please if any of can please let me know what is the best setting that i can do with this

thank you sinerely yours

Pierre

If you planning to bridge those A500s, I would suggest a different (cheaper) route that has even more power. Don't forget, if you want high power, you can get the Behringer EP2500 for under $300 each if you look around. That's a 'real' 450x2 into 8 ohms, 650x2 into 4 ohm, 1000x2 into 2 ohms; both channels driven. You'[ll only be paying about 150 per 450 watt channel, as opposed to 200 per 440 watt (bridged) channel of the A500. And the EP2500 is able to drive much lower impedances.

-Chris

 

[Paul Spencer]

Actually it's 1.2kw into 2 ohms. As Chris said, the EP2500 makes more sense for more power. I bought it to drive power hungry subs, but I now run my mains from it. It doesn't have audiophile snob value, but I don't find it to be lacking in anything. The fan is a bit noisy and it runs all the time. There is info online in how to change the fan to one you won't hear, not that hard to fix. The amp doesn't have muting relays, however, it seems to employ some method of protection since I have turn on transients that come through on other amps but EP2500 they are reduced to almost nothing. I think it has to do with the time taken to charge up the caps in the PS because if you turn it off after use, then immediately on again you get an almighty thump. Caused by other components, that is.

The A500 can only be bridged into 8 ohms, but EP2500 will put 2.4kw into 4 ohms bridged! That gives it a lot of flexibility and makes it ideal as a monster sub amp. It's ideally suited to locking away in a concealed AV cabinet rack mounted.

I haven't done any critical listening comparisons to other amps, but I suspect that at most you would find a very subtle difference, the kind you have to listen very carefully for, playing the one track back over and over with only changing amps.

It's a class H, not to be confused with switching amps. It's really Class AB with a different power supply.

The beauty of an amp like this is that the only way you will get it to clip in a home environment is when driving very high power subs. I've only seen the clipping lights twice in the last few years.

 

[WmAx]

Actually it's 1.2kw into 2 ohms.

There seems to be some confusion. I quote the actual 3rd party measurements. You are quoting the manufacturer specifications. In any event, you can't even get the 3rd party results unless you have the EP2500 on a dedicated 20A line, and with a very short, large diameter wiring, from the breaker box, so that line voltage sag is minimized.

-Chris

 

[fmw]

The pro audio people literally despise Behringer. I don't think it is much because of the products but because Behringer rips off other company's designs and makes them cheaper in China. Perhaps it is similar to Monster which makes products that are fine but lie to the world about what the products can and will do.

I only own one Behringer product - a guitar amplifier modeling effects box - which in my opinion sounds OK but is noisier than it should be.

The pro audio people tend to favor the Crown and QSC amps but I'll tell you brand that is truly dynamite, inexpensive and clean as a whistle. It's the Yamaha P Series. The nice thing about the Yamahas is that they have variable speed fans so they are pretty quiet while doing low power work like they would encounter in a home audio system. The fans crank up when they need fill an auditorium with sound. They are solid as a rock, have less than .1% THD. They range in price from $400 to $800. They aren't as tacky looking as some of the others either. Below is the $400 model with 250 wpc into 8 ohms.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/P2500S--Main

 

[WmAx]

The pro audio people literally despise Behringer. I don't think it is much because of the products but because Behringer rips off other company's designs and makes them cheaper in China. Perhaps it is similar to Monster which makes products that are fine but lie to the world about what the products can and will do.

I only own one Behringer product - a guitar amplifier modeling effects box - which in my opinion sounds OK but is noisier than it should be.

I don't know anything about the guitar products. But they have some excellent amplifiers and crossovers, and even a superb microphone or two in their lines.

The pro audio people tend to favor the Crown and QSC amps but I'll tell you brand that is truly dynamite, inexpensive and clean as a whistle.

Did you know that the Behringer EP2500 measured better, in every way, compared to the mighty and costly Crown K2? The K2 is one of the most sought after pro amps and has manufacturer specs that exceed even the EP2500 by a small degree - yet - in actual 3rd party testing - a lowly Behringer trumps the K2 in every way: power output into any given load, THD and SNR.

It's the Yamaha P Series. The nice thing about the Yamahas is that they have variable speed fans so they are pretty quiet while doing low power work like they would encounter in a home audio system. The fans crank up when they need fill an auditorium with sound. They are solid as a rock, have less than .1% THD. They range in price from $400 to $800. They aren't as tacky looking as some of the others either. Below is the $400 model with 250 wpc into 8 ohms.

Actually, the Pxx00S series have fans that will never activate in normal home applications. These units leave the fan off until the heat sink hits 50 degrees Centigrade. Since these amplifiers have >90 percent efficiency, it is a rare time indeed, that the fans activate. I tested a P3500S for 1/2 an hour at very high SPLs(nearly 100dB average, slow meter reading) on a 4 ohm pair of speakers with an 88db/1M/1W sensitivity rating. I immediately removed the cover and measured the heatsink temperature and it was not even close to hitting 50C. BTW< I have a P2500S and P3500S. They are excellent amplifiers and I recommend them highly if budget allows.

-Chris

 

[gus6464]

I don't know anything about the guitar products. But they have some excellent amplifiers and crossovers, and even a superb microphone or two in their lines.


Did you know that the Behringer EP2500 measured better, in every way, compared to the mighty and costly Crown K2? The K2 is one of the most sought after pro amps and has manufacturer specs that exceed even the EP2500 by a small degree - yet - in actual 3rd party testing - a lowly Behringer trumps the K2 in every way: power output into any given load, THD and SNR.




Actually, the Pxx00S series have fans that will never activate in normal home applications. These units leave the fan off until the heat sink hits 50 degrees Centigrade. Since these amplifiers have >90 percent efficiency, it is a rare time indeed, that the fans activate. I tested a P3500S for 1/2 an hour at very high SPLs(nearly 100dB average, slow meter reading) on a 4 ohm pair of speakers with an 88db/1M/1W sensitivity rating. I immediately removed the cover and measured the heatsink temperature and it was not even close to hitting 50C. BTW< I have a P2500S and P3500S. They are excellent amplifiers and I recommend them highly if budget allows.

-Chris

Does the P2500S and P3500S measure close to their published specs?

 

[WmAx]

Does the P2500S and P3500S measure close to their published specs?

I don't know.

Historically, Yamaha usually measured close to specs, even on home audio gear.

That's all I can say.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

I think it's only fair to post this DBT of an A500 vs. a high end YBA amplifier.

Not only is the A500 at issue, so is the source gear. The A500 here is driven by a cheap Sony DVD player. The high end amp is using a high end Wadia CD player and high end pre-amp. So, we have cheap source and amp vs. some very high end gear. Out of 38 listeners, could a statistically valid trend be shown to demonstrate significant preference for the high end set up?

http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

The answer to the last question, of course, is NO.

-Chris

 

[jamie2112]

I think it's only fair to post this DBT of an A500 vs. a high end YBA amplifier.

Not only is the A500 at issue, so is the source gear. The A500 here is driven by a cheap Sony DVD player. The high end amp is using a high end Wadia CD player and high end pre-amp. So, we have cheap source and amp vs. some very high end gear. Out of 38 listeners, could a statistically valid trend be shown to demonstrate significant preference for the high end set up?

http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

The answer to the last question, of course, is NO.

-Chris

Thats very eye opening...Thanks Chris

 

[fmw]

I don't know anything about the guitar products. But they have some excellent amplifiers and crossovers, and even a superb microphone or two in their lines.


Did you know that the Behringer EP2500 measured better, in every way, compared to the mighty and costly Crown K2? The K2 is one of the most sought after pro amps and has manufacturer specs that exceed even the EP2500 by a small degree - yet - in actual 3rd party testing - a lowly Behringer trumps the K2 in every way: power output into any given load, THD and SNR.

That's interesting. The pro audio people would be unhappy to hear that. I'm not sure it would get the same reliability rating, however. I don't think the pro audio people have a problem with the Behringer products, but rather a problem with the Behringers themselves who knock off other people's designs.

My Behringer V-Amp cost me $129. A comparable guitar amp modeler from another company like Line 6 would be $600. So it's easy to see why their products are popular.

Actually, the Pxx00S series have fans that will never activate in normal home applications. These units leave the fan off until the heat sink hits 50 degrees Centigrade. Since these amplifiers have >90 percent efficiency, it is a rare time indeed, that the fans activate. I tested a P3500S for 1/2 an hour at very high SPLs(nearly 100dB average, slow meter reading) on a 4 ohm pair of speakers with an 88db/1M/1W sensitivity rating. I immediately removed the cover and measured the heatsink temperature and it was not even close to hitting 50C. BTW< I have a P2500S and P3500S. They are excellent amplifiers and I recommend them highly if budget allows.

-Chris

No surprise there. My own mains don't draw more than 20 watts per channel in my home theater and then only during loud peaks. I have a P2500 in my performance rig. It is driven by a Yamaha mixer and feeds a pair of EV sound reinforcement speakers. It is as clean and pure as it could be and plenty powerful. It will fill a typical high school gymnasium sized venue with plenty of power to spare. It doesn't fire up the fans during practice sessions either so I wouldn't expect it to fire them up in a home theater either. The Yamaha's aren't as well known as other brands among the pro audio people but those who know them and use them rave about them.

 

[fmw]

I think it's only fair to post this DBT of an A500 vs. a high end YBA amplifier.

Not only is the A500 at issue, so is the source gear. The A500 here is driven by a cheap Sony DVD player. The high end amp is using a high end Wadia CD player and high end pre-amp. So, we have cheap source and amp vs. some very high end gear. Out of 38 listeners, could a statistically valid trend be shown to demonstrate significant preference for the high end set up?

http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

The answer to the last question, of course, is NO.

-Chris

I've never done bias controlled tests that way but I have done amps and CD players in separate tests. Amplifiers and CD players aren't the way to get sonic improvements in a home audio system. Room acoustics and speakers are the way to go.

 

[gus6464]

I think it's only fair to post this DBT of an A500 vs. a high end YBA amplifier.

Not only is the A500 at issue, so is the source gear. The A500 here is driven by a cheap Sony DVD player. The high end amp is using a high end Wadia CD player and high end pre-amp. So, we have cheap source and amp vs. some very high end gear. Out of 38 listeners, could a statistically valid trend be shown to demonstrate significant preference for the high end set up?

http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

The answer to the last question, of course, is NO.

-Chris

I love the wooden chair they used to sit the A500 and sony dvd player lol. I encountered the same thing when I bought an Arcam A80 integrated amp thinking it would sound better than my 7 year old Sony 5.1 AVR. I spent over $500 (used) on the Arcam and it sounded no different than the Sony so needless to say I was pissed. Ended up selling the Arcam for a tiny profit ($30) and ended up getting a sweet deal on my Dali Ikon2. I said to myself that was going to be the last time I ever bought an expensive piece of electronics.

 

[Duraznov]

Hi everyone, first of all this is my first post in this forum, I'm from Santiago, Chile and the reason I'm here is to thank you for the useful information on this amp, after reading you I decided to buy one with one month of use (120 USD). I attached it to a JVC XL-Z232 (using RCA Monster Cables) as source and a pair of speakers made by me with Paradigm 8" and dome type Vifa 3/4 inch. I think this one is definitely the best amp I've bought; yet the cheaper one. Finally I can say my self-made speakers are as good as I spected... hehe. You only have to get used to use your two hands for turning the volume. The other configuration I used is attaching an Onkyo TX-SV717PRO as a preamp, just for using its remote. I hope to be alone at home to turn the volume up for a longer time, but this far i've not noticed any distorsion at high volume. I think I will look for a dedicated preamp later.

Again, thank you from the distance, I know you'll forgive my possible gramatical mistakes

 

[Seth=L]

I think it's only fair to post this DBT of an A500 vs. a high end YBA amplifier.

Not only is the A500 at issue, so is the source gear. The A500 here is driven by a cheap Sony DVD player. The high end amp is using a high end Wadia CD player and high end pre-amp. So, we have cheap source and amp vs. some very high end gear. Out of 38 listeners, could a statistically valid trend be shown to demonstrate significant preference for the high end set up?

http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

The answer to the last question, of course, is NO.

-Chris

That's awesome.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi everyone, first of all this is my first post in this forum, I'm from Santiago, Chile and the reason I'm here is to thank you for the useful information on this amp, after reading you I decided to buy one with one month of use (120 USD). I attached it to a JVC XL-Z232 (using RCA Monster Cables) as source and a pair of speakers made by me with Paradigm 8" and dome type Vifa 3/4 inch. I think this one is definitely the best amp I've bought; yet the cheaper one. Finally I can say my self-made speakers are as good as I spected... hehe. You only have to get used to use your two hands for turning the volume. The other configuration I used is attaching an Onkyo TX-SV717PRO as a preamp, just for using its remote. I hope to be alone at home to turn the volume up for a longer time, but this far i've not noticed any distorsion at high volume. I think I will look for a dedicated preamp later.

Again, thank you from the distance, I know you'll forgive my possible gramatical mistakes

Welcome aboard
Not to worry about your mistakes. You should see the posts for Americans here, from time to time

Don't be a stranger

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think it's only fair to post this DBT of an A500 vs. a high end YBA amplifier.

Not only is the A500 at issue, so is the source gear. The A500 here is driven by a cheap Sony DVD player. The high end amp is using a high end Wadia CD player and high end pre-amp. So, we have cheap source and amp vs. some very high end gear. Out of 38 listeners, could a statistically valid trend be shown to demonstrate significant preference for the high end set up?

http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

The answer to the last question, of course, is NO.

-Chris

Great
Tom Nousaine did something similar to this in 1998

Nousaine, Tom "To Tweak, or Not to Tweak?" Stereo Review, Jun 98, pg 79-81.

Only the speakers were common, everything else were different as in the link.
Same results.

 

[MonroeBobo]

Hi this is my first post here. After taking a few hours to read this and other threads on the subject, from here and other sites, I purchased me a EP2500 form parts express. Orginally to run two infinity 12 inch subs. But first I wanted to hear it on my mains. I used a Onkyo TS-DS797 as a pre and hooked them up to my B&W CM4s. Before I took a listen I went to a local highend dealer to listen to what they had first. My luck was that they had a Classe amp and pre running the exact speakers I had and I could hear a substantial improvement but not a drastic one. ( Granted some of this had to do with room acoustics and treatments). I went home and listed to my reciever and I was correct. the audio shop sounded better. I hooked up the Behringer and was pretty amazed. It was also a improvement over the reciever alone. I wouldnt say it sounded as good as the Classe from the shop, but it would be interesting to do a blind test. Iim thinking better treatments in my room will make this setup sing. It gave my rather small CM4s anice boost on the lowend. The kick drum and bass guitar stood out more. It had more I guess youd say slam. it also open up the soudstage more. Maybe a bit more detail. I could also seem to listen a larger volumes without listeners fatigue. I guess the best way to put it is that the speakers seemed to be larger than they are and sounded before. Im going to order another now for my subs and play with my room treatments for a while. Thanks I really enjoyed reading the thread and it help me out alot.
Thanks Monroe

PS As comparison cds I used Clapton Unplugged. Dire Straits "Love Over Gold",STP "Core", Van Morrison and The Black Crows