Bass Management Basics - Settings Made Simple

[Ed Mullen]

As far as your subwoofer, have it set somewhere above the crossover you decide on for the speakers. You want an overlap so you don't miss out on frequencies. I'd say set the sub to 100hz-120hz & leave it. If you set it lower than the speakers then you'll have a hole in the sound.

Example: if your speakers are set to 80hz & sub is set to 60hz then theoretically you will have a 20hz gap. So I recommend setting the sub to its highest available crossover level.

Not quite.

The subwoofer setting you are referring to is the low pass filter for the LFE channel. The LFE channel is the ".1" on a DVD, and is reserved for low frequency effects. This channel is only sent to the subwoofer (when one is specified in the AVR set-up menu).

Since the LFE channel is only sent to the subwoofer, the set-up menu in the AVR is asking how high do you want to allow the LFE channel to play before low passing it. This menu option in the AVR is separate and independent from the speaker/subwoofer crossover frequency that you select for each speaker channel.

In practice, there is very little content in the LFE channel above 80 Hz. However, we occasionally see bass in the LFE channel up to 100-110 Hz. More to the point, the encoding spec for DVDs allows content in the LFE channel up to 120 Hz (at which point it is digitally brick-walled).

So in order to capture everything which could theoretically be present in the LFE channel, this AVR menu option (commonly referred to as 'LPF for LFE') should always be set to 120 Hz. This is usually the default setting on the AVR.

 

[timoteo]

Ed is right on that so I stand corrected. 120hz is the best setting to have the subs low pass set to. If it goes higher then go ahead & set it higher but at 100hz you do risk some clipping.

As far as having towers with built in subs, I'm not a fan of those since most of the time the best location in the room for the mains is not the best place in the room for the low bass to come from. Having towers that have subs just seems a waste of money since a lot of the time people don't use them for the low bass. I just think of all the money spent that went to the amp/sub drivers in the towers. Bums me out.

If someone doesn't have a sub & uses the subs in the towers then that's fine & I'm sure there are some out there who love having a system without a big ol' sub in the room (specially the wives haha). But for some serious bass, a dedicated sub is needed, placed right & adjusted correctly.

I'm sure those DefTechs get down to 18hz...just not very loud. I'm sure with the subs engaged in them, 2ch music with them set to Large probably sounds great though!! Home Theater may be another story.

 

[h2oyo]

how to set up bass

Well I just finished reading the entire thread about this, and after crawling around my room and making a few adjustments it sounds absolutely amazing. I have been trying to find information out about his for 2 weeks. This is by far the best thread on the internet on this subject. I was one of them people setting all my speakers to large. The cone size given to me by my receiver company said so! After reading this I truly believe if more people read this thread they would find that it what is said makes perfect sense and their systems would sound better also. Thank you for writing this in a way a person new to this can totally understand and make sense of it.
Johan

 

[herbu]

Read through this thread again, since it was bumped to the top. I'm reminded of a point that seems to confuse some people.

Setting speakers to small/large has nothing to do with what or how your speakers play.
Your speaker's signal is 100% controlled by your crossover settings, regardless of your small/large setting.

The small/large setting only determines what is done with the signal below your crossover setting, (that is filtered out of your normal speaker signal).
With a Large setting, nothing is done with it. It's gone. Lost. Discarded.
With a Small setting, it is sent to the subwoofer.

 

[Steve81]

Read through this thread again, since it was bumped to the top. I'm reminded of a point that seems to confuse some people.

Setting speakers to small/large has nothing to do with what or how your speakers play.
Your speaker's signal is 100% controlled by your crossover settings, regardless of your small/large setting.

Not quite. Setting your speakers to large means they're being fed a full range signal in every setup I've seen. In my old Onkyo AVR for example, the options for each individual channel were Large, 40Hz, 50Hz, etc. IOW, you couldn't set a speaker to Large AND select a crossover frequency (outside of the LPF of the LFE channel, which is a separate beast). I don't recall off the top of my head what my Emo does, but I believe its either identical or grays out the speaker XO selection if you say your speakers are large.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think on my Denon, if I set to Large & Sub to LFE+THX, I get less bass in 2.1 mode.

If I set to Small & Sub to LFE+THX, I get more bass in 2.1 mode.

If I set to Large & Sub to LFE+MAIN, I get more bass in 2.1 mode.

 

[3db]

Not quite. Setting your speakers to large means they're being fed a full range signal in every setup I've seen. In my old Onkyo AVR for example, the options for each individual channel were Large, 40Hz, 50Hz, etc. IOW, you couldn't set a speaker to Large AND select a crossover frequency (outside of the LPF of the LFE channel, which is a separate beast). I don't recall off the top of my head what my Emo does, but I believe its either identical or grays out the speaker XO selection if you say your speakers are large.

Its been my experience as well that setting speakers to large sends the full spectrum to the speakers. Setting them to small applies digital filtering with the cutoff frequency determined by the crossover setting/settings configured on the AVR.

 

[gene]

Its been my experience as well that setting speakers to large sends the full spectrum to the speakers. Setting them to small applies digital filtering with the cutoff frequency determined by the crossover setting/settings configured on the AVR.

That is correct. Large will send fullrange to each speaker but NOT LFE to the mains unless you turn the sub channel off. Small will send frequencies above the XOVER setting to each respective channel with 24dB/oct HPF tapering off the frequencies below the XOVER setting.

The Bass + THX or Extra Bass modes just mean that the sub will be active in 2CH mode even if you set the mains to Large. However the mains will NOT get LFE info. Very few companies will route LFE info to the mains once the sub channel is turned on. I believe Anthem has a mode for this as does Emotiva with the XMC-1.

 

[herbu]

you couldn't set a speaker to Large AND select a crossover frequency (outside of the LPF of the LFE channel, which is a separate beast). I don't recall off the top of my head what my Emo does, but I believe its either identical or grays out the speaker XO selection if you say your speakers are large.

My Denon X4000 lets me do it. I can set a pair of speakers to "Large", and still set their crossover wherever I want.
Guess I need to be more careful stating, "This is so...", just because it is so on my system. Sorry.

 

[phisig2232]

I have a pair of Klipsch R-28F, R-25C, and R-12SW. My receiver is Yamaha RX-V677. After completing the YPAO calibrations, it set all speakers to LARGE. The crossover was set to 60. Should I keep these settings or change the floor speakers to SMALL for best results? Any input is much appreciated.

 

[gene]

 

[BCWookie]

I have goldenear triton 2'with built in powered subs. I set these to large as they are full range. Do you agree with this setting?

 

[agarwalro]

I have goldenear triton 2'with built in powered subs. I set these to large as they are full range. Do you agree with this setting?

Do you have a subwoofer? If yes, set them to 'Small'.

 

[gene]

I have goldenear triton 2'with built in powered subs. I set these to large as they are full range. Do you agree with this setting?

Powered towers are a diff scenario. I usually recommend setting them Large since the mid/tweet already has a built in XOVER. Then also connect the sub out of the AVR to the LFE in of both towers. Set bass to "sub only" NOT Both. This will allow bass/lfe level control for movies and add additional mono subs playing the same signal to get the benefits of multi-sub bass.

 

[Jarrodpp]

There are to many variables when it comes to sub-woofers. As stated subs are not directional once they get below a certain frequency. What was not stated is that the human ear can not hear frequencies below a certain point. That's why THX uses 80 hrz as their reference.

For a two channel system, if a sub is being used with full range speakers a sub is used to fill in the lowest octaves. They may not be heard like the other octaves, but as an enhancement. If you have heard a pipe organ. you can feel the lowest octaves and knowing they are there, but you don't really hear them because they are below what we can hear.

 

[Epetti]

Where does the half octave rule come from? That seems aggressive. I've seen other sites say 10-20Hz. For instance, my Center channel has -3dB at 78 Hz. Half octave would set it at 120 which gets into a near directional place and seems high for a Center. Even my bookshelf surrounds bottom out at 60 which would mean setting crossover at 90, which is a bit higher than the THX standard of 80.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gene]

Where does the half octave rule come from? That seems aggressive. I've seen other sites say 10-20Hz. For instance, my Center channel has -3dB at 78 Hz. Half octave would set it at 120 which gets into a near directional place and seems high for a Center. Even my bookshelf surrounds bottom out at 60 which would mean setting crossover at 90, which is a bit higher than the THX standard of 80.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1/2 oct was meant as a guideline for the usable BW of the speaker, not the -3dB pt. I will see if I can clear up that text a bit.

 

[gene]

There are to many variables when it comes to sub-woofers. As stated subs are not directional once they get below a certain frequency. What was not stated is that the human ear can not hear frequencies below a certain point. That's why THX uses 80 hrz as their reference.

For a two channel system, if a sub is being used with full range speakers a sub is used to fill in the lowest octaves. They may not be heard like the other octaves, but as an enhancement. If you have heard a pipe organ. you can feel the lowest octaves and knowing they are there, but you don't really hear them because they are below what we can hear.

The 80Hz Xover has nothing to do with not being able to hear bass below 20Hz. That's a different subject.

That said, 80Hz is a good pt b/c its about 1/2 octave below the frequencies where the ear can localize.

 

[Diesel57]

Hello to all, I'm a beginner in the area of understanding the proper settings and getting the most out of your componets...what have right now is: Denon 1912 avr 2 rs nova 8b speakers which are 3way and will be adding a bic america fl 12 sub what would be the right settings to get optimal sound for music, any advice would give me more knowledge than what I have now.............THANK YOU ALL!!!

 

[agarwalro]

What condition are the Nova in? My first thought would be ensuing all drivers are fully functional. Even if they look okay, the foam may need replaced. If any driver is fried, you might as well replace it. Also, look into updating the crossover. Capacitors may need to be replaced. The stock crossover may be upgraded too.

Someone restored/updated them, http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=307141

I'd hold off on the subwoofer till the Nova are optimized. In the meantime, just run the auto setup and let em rip.