AVR-X3600H - A viable low cost alternative to the more expensive AVPs(Denon) and AVCs (Yamaha)?

[DJ7675]

The fact that you bought it from Amazon, would the warranty service be handled through them, or you have to deal directly with A4L? I understand it is only 1 year but if Amazon would handle it through them, then there is still some value.

By the way, if you put a fan on top, the 3 year thing is a moot point 99% of the time as it won't fail within 3 years anyway for normal use.

What fan(s) do you use? Do you use one of the aircom units or just a simple usb fan?

 

[PENG]

This is why I think the X8500 is actually the best value going right now. The trick that the X3600H does for 2 channels, the X8500 can do with all channels (individually). Basically you can pick and choose what channels you want to externally amp and get better performance than the Marantz 7705/8805. From Safensoundhq for example, you can get a full warranty open box unit for under $3k. With it you can disconnect any channel and get this (likely even better) performance, 13 very good amps, 13 channels of processing, 3 zone control, dialogue lift etc. It makes no sense that the X8500 can be had for less than the Marantz AV8805 and it includes amplification for all 13 channels. And the kicker is it will likely outperform all of the boutique processors as well like Emotiva, etc. It is amazing the affect disconnecting amps has on performance when using the precuts for external amps.

You know I agreed with you, but try telling people not to listen audio myth/hearsay is a futile exercise 90% of the time. That's why and how we often elected the wrong person to high offices. Good marketing people, like politicians know hot to get enough "buyers" sucked in.

I typically would recommend Marantz (would mention Denon as an alternative if there were deep discounts at the time) if to people looking for advice but mentioned the musical/warm thing, because I think most of them were actually looking for moral support so 90% of them likely have already made up their mind. If the X8500H's on sale price was equal or only a few hundreds more than the SR8012 then I think one has to be a real die hard Marantz fan to not considering the Denon..

 

[PENG]

What fan(s) do you use? Do you use one of the aircom units or just a simple usb fan?

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Cooling-Ventilation-Projects/dp/B009OXTWZI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=ac+infinity+fan+100mm&qid=1587652359&s=electronics&sr=1-2

Two 80mm ones or one 120 mm one should do the do in most cases I would think. Even one 80mm would be plenty if set to the higher speeds but you will hear the noise. You can't hear the noise from 10 ft even during silence scenes if you set them to the lowest speed, that's the only reason I would use 2X80mm or 1X120mm.

 

[DJ7675]

In my (probably unpopular opinion) is that the oft repeated Marantz is "warm" or more "musical" is just one of those things that has been repeated so many times it has become a sort of defacto internet forum "fact". It is certainly a Marantz marketing thing. I'm just not so sure it has any basis in fact supported by measurements or double blind testing.

 

[DJ7675]

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Cooling-Ventilation-Projects/dp/B009OXTWZI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=ac+infinity+fan+100mm&qid=1587652359&s=electronics&sr=1-2

Two 80mm ones or one 120 mm one should do the do in most cases I would think. Even one 80mm would be plenty if set to the higher speeds but you will hear the noise. You can't hear the noise from 10 ft even during silence scenes if you set them to the lowest speed, that's the only reason I would use 2X80mm or 1X120mm.

Thanks for the link. Will pick up a couple of 80mm to stick on the the x8500.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Yeah, Accessories4less gets recommended quite often here. We do have a member who had a negative experience with Denon 8520's. He bought one from them and it arrived DOA, they sent a replacement which was also DOA and I believed he went elsewhere for his AVR. However, the good thing is that Accessories4less was straightforward in handling the replacement and refund.
But there are dozens of people who have given accounts just like yours. I have bought over a dozen refurb items from them and, upon inspection, all were either brand new (as far as I could tell) or had the kind of wear that I would put on one after a few weeks (I am careful but sometimes there is something like a sheen where the rubber feet from another component was slid across the top - not something you would ever notice in normal use)! Enjoy!

My wife purchased a brand new not refurbished marantz sr6014 from a4l as a Christmas present for me. It was defective. The replacement was also defective albeit in a different way. They didn't treat me the way I really would have liked to have been treated in dealing with it. It got even more difficult when I asked them to refund our credit card that it was purchased on. Now they eventually did the right thing but I had to strong-arm them a little into it. I believe I was dealing with a subordinate and once the manager got involved things went better. I would purchase from them again because they eventually did the correct thing. I do have a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth because they automatically assumed that I was doing something wrong in both cases but they couldn't figure out what was wrong either and then still assumed I had to be doing something wrong and when I prove to them I wasn't they got a little indignant...until the person that I believed to have been a manager got involved. He didn't identify himself as such. I will continue on believing that I probably got a newbie that just wasn't handling me properly because of the mostly very good reputation they have. My wife not so much. [emoji1]

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I leave ECO on except when I'm interested in Max sound output. It's just a button push away on the remote. You can hear the dynamics difference if your pushing 50-60 on the volume control. When I moved the L/R channels to an external amp the Denon ECO setting impact was much less noticeable. It's a nice feature for saving a little power. But if every time you turn on the system you want the best sound possible - then I agree leave it off and get a fan.

I used to do this too. But ime, I haven’t noticed any dynamic changes in eco on/off. I use a 6012 with a Yamaha p2500s for my mains. MV is usually between -30and -12. I just leave eco ON since my MV levels aren’t high enough to bypass it anyway.
Seem like @PENG has covered this before and that MV 45-50(I don’t use that scale) is where eco gets bypassed. It’s in the manual too I guess...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

In my (probably unpopular opinion) is that the oft repeated Marantz is "warm" or more "musical" is just one of those things that has been repeated so many times it has become a sort of defacto internet forum "fact". It is certainly a Marantz marketing thing. I'm just not so sure it has any basis in fact supported by measurements or double blind testing.

I think @PENG is also best suited you answer this, but your right. It’s it based in fact and has been tested. Seems to harken back to a time when Marantz was not under the same umbrella as Denon, and I believe they might have actually sounded “warmer”. Still, anymore they’re much more similar than different. Except my HDAM is superb!!!!! Oh wait.....

 

[Pogre]

I used to do this too. But ime, I haven’t noticed any dynamic changes in eco on/off. I use a 6012 with a Yamaha p2500s for my mains. MV is usually between -30and -12. I just leave eco ON since my MV levels aren’t high enough to bypass it anyway.
Seem like @PENG has covered this before and that MV 45-50(I don’t use that scale) is where eco gets bypassed. It’s in the manual too I guess...

I turned eco off after performing this little trick and it definitely runs cooler than it used to when I turned eco off. Cool enough that I took the fan out of there. Right now, it gets pretty warm but not HOT.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I turned eco off after performing this little trick and it definitely runs cooler than it used to when I turned eco off. Cool enough that I took the fan out of there. Right now, it gets pretty warm but not HOT.

Wow. That’s interesting. I was surprised at how cool my Marantz is with eco on. Off allows it to run really hot, but the Pioneer in my bedroom is like the surface of the Sun!!!

 

[PENG]

Amir/ASR did a follow up review on the X3600H using, yes actually using XT32, complete with his subjective part in the review too. I have the impression that hose guys over there are mostly in the Dirac, or No DRC/AREQ cam, well, for good reasons too I suppose..

I thought he was funny and honest at the same time as he never (as far as I can remember) had anything good to say about Audyssey before. Here's the funny part I would like to share:

ASR Auyssey Review (see post#76)

"There is another issue. When I was playing with the app after calibration, I made a change and was amazed at the improvement in detail and imaging. Then I realized I had not yet uploaded the change so nothing was different! This is especially true of people who like to believe something is good. This is why you want to confirm what the system is doing.

Anyway there is no rookie mistake or otherwise. I have calibrated rooms countless times by hand and with every Room EQ system out there. I understand the underlying science and what the system needs to do. It is not a mistake that I quickly arrived at the right target curve and positive results."

The biggest surprise came in his conclusions when he actually said, and in bold too!

"I am happy to recommend Audyssey XT32 with use of Denon/Marantz app to customize it. "

Coming from someone who has the highly regarded, and truly full range Salon1, aren't you surprised too?

 

[PENG]

Wow. That’s interesting. I was surprised at how cool my Marantz is with eco on. Off allows it to run really hot, but the Pioneer in my bedroom is like the surface of the Sun!!!

From the SR6000 series and up, imo running warmer than Yamaha's equivalents aren't necessarily a bad thing because it would could be an indicator of slightly higher bias that tend to minimize XO distortions a little more. It can be mitigated with quiet external fans anyway so I'll take lower XOD and deal with the heat, whether I can hear the effects or not, that's just me.

 

[KEW]

Just curious, how do they typically package heavy items, double/triple box with extra foams? Regardless, I would not buy something that heavy, say >30 to 35 lbs with packaging material, i.e. in the box from AC4L or other refurbished AVRs online even if they are labelled refurbished but actually brand new.

They are packaged by Marantz/Denon/Yamaha/Etc. these are almost always double boxed with the fitted foam (by the original manufacturer). It seems that they never reuse packaging because I have never seen any other labels or signs of labels being removed and the boxes are in new condition aside from what you might expect from UPS (say a "bruise" are small tear to the box where something heavy bumped it). Occasionally, A4L will add an additional external box, but I don't know the rhyme or reason behind the choice (or not) of the extra box. So they arrive packaged the exact same way as it would be if you ordered a new unit from Crutchfield, Amazon, Audio Advice, etc except there is usually an "R" or something stamped onto the end of the model number on the box. I don't think A4L typically ever opens a box. The refurbishing is done by the manufacturer (at an approved location, but I am pretty sure the unit is the manufacturer's property at this point in time). A4L simply buys the reconditioned units from the manufacturer and sells them to the consumer. I don't think they have much competition in the reconditioned market any more because A4L has proven to provide reliable sales without amassing customer complaints. If you read some of ADTG's old post about his refurb purchases from other distributors, you will understand why the manufacturers have shifted sales of their reconditioned equipment to A4L. The previous resellers were bulk warehouse operations (like Overstock?) while A4L specializes in audio only!
I have never had an issue with shipping damage, but I have probably only bought two AVR's that weigh over 30 lbs - Denon 8520 and Marantz 7008. Of course, speakers weigh more (and, again, no damage), but I am assuming you are talking electronics.

 

[mtrot]

I turned eco off after performing this little trick and it definitely runs cooler than it used to when I turned eco off. Cool enough that I took the fan out of there. Right now, it gets pretty warm but not HOT.

My 5200 gets really hot with ECO turned off, even when not playing anything, but only warm to the touch with ECO on. I think I'll try one of those fans.

 

[mtrot]

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Cooling-Ventilation-Projects/dp/B009OXTWZI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=ac+infinity+fan+100mm&qid=1587652359&s=electronics&sr=1-2

Two 80mm ones or one 120 mm one should do the do in most cases I would think. Even one 80mm would be plenty if set to the higher speeds but you will hear the noise. You can't hear the noise from 10 ft even during silence scenes if you set them to the lowest speed, that's the only reason I would use 2X80mm or 1X120mm.

Thanks for that recommendation. How would one decide between using this fan that you plug into an electrical socket versus the USB fans from the same company? What are the relative advantages and disadvantages? I want to pick up a fan(or two) for my 5200 and run without ECO mode.

 

[KEW]

My wife purchased a brand new not refurbished marantz sr6014 from a4l as a Christmas present for me. It was defective. The replacement was also defective albeit in a different way. They didn't treat me the way I really would have liked to have been treated in dealing with it. It got even more difficult when I asked them to refund our credit card that it was purchased on. Now they eventually did the right thing but I had to strong-arm them a little into it. I believe I was dealing with a subordinate and once the manager got involved things went better. I would purchase from them again because they eventually did the correct thing. I do have a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth because they automatically assumed that I was doing something wrong in both cases but they couldn't figure out what was wrong either and then still assumed I had to be doing something wrong and when I prove to them I wasn't they got a little indignant...until the person that I believed to have been a manager got involved. He didn't identify himself as such. I will continue on believing that I probably got a newbie that just wasn't handling me properly because of the mostly very good reputation they have. My wife not so much. [emoji1]

That is disappointing to hear!
I got a Marantz SR-6001 that I thought was defective (it was my first AVR ~10 years ago) and the guy let me swap it for another. After the second one had the same problem as the first, I did more research and discovered that the AVR was fine and I was the one with the problem! They really should have asked me more questions!
I imagine their task on returns is to follow a certain flow-chart for troubleshooting the obvious problems (like try a reset or make sure you have assigned inputs correctly). However, good customer service also involves "reading" the customer to try to understand his level of experience/patience/frustration.
I remember back when buying a computer via mail-order was a new thing and mine had a failure within the warranty period. When I called the company for service, they sent me to a technician. Once the technician established that I had built computers in the past, he started having me perform many tests. After about 4 hours (over a week as they sent parts for me to swap out on a trial and error basis) I realized that I had to just tell him that I was not willing to be their repair service, and that I wanted a replacement via the warranty. He almost sounded relieved and the response was "no problem" and they sent another unit to me right away! I went off on a little tangent there, but I learned then that often CS is partially waiting for you to tell them what you want, but if you don't, they are probably instructed to minimize the cost of the return. I think this guy was impressed at what I had already been willing to do and felt bad to be "taking advantage of me", but as was the instruction of his job, he wasn't authorized to offer me the replacement (on the call "monitored for good service") as long as I was a willing participant. I learned that day that just because I have patience doesn't mean I should always use it
This is a little bit of an off-topic ramble except that it does sound like the guy you were dealing with was inexperienced; and, it sounds likely that he had too much ego such that when you started disagreeing with him, he doubled down rather than recognizing it was time to process a return!

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Just curious, how do they typically package heavy items, double/triple box with extra foams? Regardless, I would not buy something that heavy, say >30 to 35 lbs with packaging material, i.e. in the box from AC4L or other refurbished AVRs online even if they are labelled refurbished but actually brand new.

In the case of refurbished Denon receivers, they are refurbished by Denon and carefully packed in a product shipping box with a 1 year Denon warranty tag stuck to the box. Also included is a sheet with the initials of the test person. The packaging is just like a new unit but with a 1 year instead of a 3 year warranty. When you buy factory refurbished it's not like someone puts it in any old box available and ships it. It's protected with foam and heavy cardboard. If it's not factory refurbished - that's another story.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for that recommendation. How would one decide between using this fan that you plug into an electrical socket versus the USB fans from the same company? What are the relative advantages and disadvantages? I want to pick up a fan(or two) for my 5200 and run without ECO mode.

The 120 V AC units may have a little higher air flow spec but I always prefer the USB ones, one less part (the PS) that can fail.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

That is disappointing to hear!

With the first defective unit they were trying to get me to run diagnostics...that would have been fine but I'd already told him that the unit wouldn't power up at all. That's when I knew it was going to be difficult lol![emoji1787]

 

[mtrot]

The 120 V AC units may have a little higher air flow spec but I always prefer the USB ones, one less part (the PS) that can fail.

Thanks, that's what I needed to know!