Audyssey Results?

[speakerman39]

Folks since I added the JBL 520c center channel speaker to me setup, I had to rerun Audyssey. Here are the initial results:

Fronts Large
Center Large
Subs 2-Speakers

FR 8.2' + .5 db
FL 8.1' 0 db
Center 7.2' - 2.5 db

Sub 1 12.7' -9.5 db
Sub 2 9.7' -9.0 db
LFE 120 Hz


So, I go back into the "Manual" mode and made the following adjustments:

Fronts Small 60 Hz X-over
Center Small 80 Hz X-over

I left the levels and/or the distances the same as originally set by Audyssey because they are very accurate for the most part. I also left the LFE at 120 hz. Keep in mind that Dynamic EQ is enabled whereas both the Dynamic Volume/LFC are disabled. It sounds really good w/the exception of my subs. They are NOT adding much at all. So, what is the best way to rectify that? I did level match both subs as close to 75 db as I could. Both were in the "green" readings. Maybe level match to 80 db would help, no?

So, is it better to increase the gain volume knob on my S1500's OR increase the levels set by Audyssey and NOT adjust the gain volume knobs on my S1500's? Or, perhaps do a little bit of BOTH? Why does Audyssey set the levels so low that results in very poor bass? What will give me the best result?

BTW, what is "Reference Level Offset"? What exactly does it do? Right now it is set to 0 db. Is that a good thing? Very happy w/the results for the most part, but need much more punch and kick. Don't need to destroy my living room, just feel and hear the kick drums better.

Lastly, right now my 530' s are NOT toed in. If I do decide to toe them in, do I really need to redo Audyssey yet again? If I decide to toe them in, do I move the speakers or move the stands? Which is best? The stands toed in would look a bit odd wouldn't it? Anyways, just trying to get things right. That is why I am asking a lot of question. Would appreciate any and all the help I can get. Thanks!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd set the crossovers all to 80 myself, but whatever sounds best to you. LFE should be at 120 IMO. I never use DynVol or LFC myself. RLO is a way to adjust non-standardized content for use with DynEQ, look in your manual for suggestions (I generally use 0 for blurays/dvds, 5-10 for tv, 5-15 for various music). If you run your subs at cal for 80 dB that can help set your sub level into the negative range on the avr to allow more boost without worry of clipping the sub output from the avr.

Just bump up the sub level in the avr, that way you have a more accurate way of returning to a known calibrated level, the gain adjustments on your subs are likely not as accurate. I usually bump up sub level 2-4 dB after running Audyssey (and many others do, too).

I'd probably rerun Audyssey after playing with toe-in for the heck of it. I toe in with the stand/speaker as a unit. YMMV.

 

[omgwtflolz]

Couldn't agree more with loveinthehd ^^^. I manually bumped up the sub level on my system, I think the setting is under Tone. You can also manually change the distance of speakers as well, but I don't know if that will help the punch you are looking for. LFE @ 120. Crossover @ 80. Not knowing the sub you have, check the knobs behind the sub and make sure they are not switched all the way to 0.

 

[lovinthehd]

Couldn't agree more with loveinthehd ^^^. I manually bumped up the sub level on my system, I think the setting is under Tone. You can also manually change the distance of speakers as well, but I don't know if that will help the punch you are looking for. LFE @ 120. Crossover @ 80. Not knowing the sub you have, check the knobs behind the sub and make sure they are not switched all the way to 0.

Sub level is generally under speaker level settings; tone controls are generally bass and treble controls (which are usually not available in conjunction with Audyssey IME). Changing distance is changing delay and subs with their own amp processing likely will be set at a different physical difference to account for that processing time; I would leave any distance setting for the speakers alone, maybe play with the delay for the sub to affect phase. Might want to look into the subject in these threads

 

[speakerman39]

I'd set the crossovers all to 80 myself, but whatever sounds best to you. LFE should be at 120 IMO. I never use DynVol or LFC myself. RLO is a way to adjust non-standardized content for use with DynEQ, look in your manual for suggestions (I generally use 0 for blurays/dvds, 5-10 for tv, 5-15 for various music). If you run your subs at cal for 80 dB that can help set your sub level into the negative range on the avr to allow more boost without worry of clipping the sub output from the avr.

Just bump up the sub level in the avr, that way you have a more accurate way of returning to a known calibrated level, the gain adjustments on your subs are likely not as accurate. I usually bump up sub level 2-4 dB after running Audyssey (and many others do, too).

I'd probably rerun Audyssey after playing with toe-in for the heck of it. I toe in with the stand/speaker as a unit. YMMV.

Okay, I will set all X-overs to 80 Hz and see how it sounds. I don't have and owners manual, but I can download it and read up on the Refernce Level Offset. So, setting the sub levels to 80 db will put the levels further in the negative? I am wanting to increase the levels set by Audyssey not decrease them. If I understand you correctly, level matching my S1500's to 80 db will not give me what I am looking for.

Will bump the sub levels up 2.5-3.5 db and see how it sounds. Also will set everything to 80 Hz X-over. Later, I will start to experiment w/toe in and go from there. Thanks for the suggestions.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Couldn't agree more with loveinthehd ^^^. I manually bumped up the sub level on my system, I think the setting is under Tone. You can also manually change the distance of speakers as well, but I don't know if that will help the punch you are looking for. LFE @ 120. Crossover @ 80. Not knowing the sub you have, check the knobs behind the sub and make sure they are not switched all the way to 0.

I have dual PSA S1500's and it says to turn the volume knobs to half way. Once the level matching begins it then tells me that both are set too high. So, I lowered them down until I could get each one as close to 75 db as I could. Both gave me a "green" reading which means I am good to go. The end result is pure crap. I usually have to put the volume knobs to half way after running Audyssey. I think that I also went back in and increased the bass levels set by Audyssey. In other words, I usually do a bit of both-turn up the volume knobs on my S1500's AND increase the levels some set by Audyssey. Not sure that I am doing it right though. But, I like the sound MUCH better.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[omgwtflolz]

Awesome @speakerman39
I will check out the threads you mention, @loveinthehd

 

[lovinthehd]

Okay, I will set all X-overs to 80 Hz and see how it sounds. I don't have and owners manual, but I can download it and read up on the Refernce Level Offset. So, setting the sub levels to 80 db will put the levels further in the negative? I am wanting to increase the levels set by Audyssey not decrease them. If I understand you correctly, level matching my S1500's to 80 db will not give me what I am looking for.

Will bump the sub levels up 2.5-3.5 db and see how it sounds. Also will set everything to 80 Hz X-over. Later, I will start to experiment w/toe in and go from there. Thanks for the suggestions.

Cheers,

Phil

I think at -9 range on the subs you're already in good territory, just bump up the sub level (but usually increasing gain on your sub to get it into the negative range settings is a way to go if you had gotten settings closer to 0 for sub level). You want headroom to increase levels, thus the start in negative territory (they should still be set by Audyssey to match the levels of your speakers, just many want more bass).

 

[fuzz092888]

I think at -9 range on the subs you're already in good territory, just bump up the sub level (but usually increasing gain on your sub to get it into the negative range settings is a way to go if you had gotten settings closer to 0 for sub level). You want headroom to increase levels, thus the start in negative territory (they should still be set by Audyssey to match the levels of your speakers, just many want more bass).

Negatives aren't a bad thing, but -9 would be too low for me. I like to have room to move up and down and find the closer to 0 I am the better. I mean with Audyssey this should give you 10 ticks up or down to make use of.

 

[lovinthehd]

Negatives aren't a bad thing, but -9 would be too low for me. I like to have room to move up and down and find the closer to 0 I am the better. I mean with Audyssey this should give you 10 ticks up or down to make use of.

Yes, if you plan to turn the sub level down then that would be a good plan. Didn't sound like Phil wants to go that direction at all....and can't say I've ever felt the need either.

 

[fuzz092888]

Yes, if you plan to turn the sub level down then that would be a good plan. Didn't sound like Phil wants to go that direction at all....and can't say I've ever felt the need either.

It also provides added flexibility in the future without having to change a bunch of things, but to each his own. I like flexibility, others don't. That's up to you.

 

[lovinthehd]

It also provides added flexibility in the future without having to change a bunch of things, but to each his own. I like flexibility, others don't. That's up to you.

Flexibility other than the ability to turn down the sub level? Not sure I understand....altho suum cuique is a favorite of mine as well. I am a basshead by most standards, tho.

 

[fuzz092888]

Flexibility other than the ability to turn down the sub level? Not sure I understand....altho suum cuique is a favorite of mine as well. I am a basshead by most standards, tho.

I'm always tweaking my system for the flattest response possible, but occasionally like to boost the bass a little bit. I don't think anyone who's been over to my place would say I'm not a bass head, however, if you seriously need 19 db of boost then you clearly are a basshead and clearly don't desire a flat response. At 0 that should give you 10 ticks of boost, but only -1 in case of any changes. Any placement change of your main speakers/subwoofer or addition of subwoofers means that you have to start to play with subwoofer gains in addition to Audyssey settings. Staying around 0 still gives you +10 and -10, but starting at -9 seriously hamstrings you. I'm at a loss for what you'd be listening to at -9 and then need an adjustment all the way up to +10. It just doesn't make sense to me, but as long as it does and it works for you, power to you. It's just not something I would ever recommend because I don't see what there is to gain from it. However, if it makes sense to whomever is adjusting their own system, then I guess it works for them/you.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm always tweaking my system for the flattest response possible, but occasionally like to boost the bass a little bit. I don't think anyone who's been over to my place would say I'm not a bass head, however, if you seriously need 19 db of boost then you clearly are a basshead and clearly don't desire a flat response. At 0 that should give you 10 ticks of boost, but only -1 in case of any changes. Any placement change of your main speakers/subwoofer or addition of subwoofers means that you have to start to play with subwoofer gains in addition to Audyssey settings. Staying around 0 still gives you +10 and -10, but starting at -9 seriously hamstrings you. I'm at a loss for what you'd be listening to at -9 and then need an adjustment all the way up to +10. It just doesn't make sense to me, but as long as it does and it works for you, power to you. It's just not something I would ever recommend because I don't see what there is to gain from it. However, if it makes sense to whomever is adjusting their own system, then I guess it works for them/you.

I just rerun audyssey if I make major changes to sub/speaker position, if I need to adjust gain a bit no big deal.

As I mentioned, no need to reduce IME, so having room to turn it down is meaningless to me. I do want to have as much headroom on the opamp side, no desire to use it in the positive range at all, let alone it's upper positive range. 4 dB boost plus whatever required by something like DynEQ is about my max, 6 once in a great while. Had to look where I last left it just now....+3dB on each channel.

ps...my avrs with Audyssey both go from -12 to +12 for level adjustments

 

[PENG]

Hi Phil, Audyssey is supposed to flatten your subs frequency response but even if it manages to do that you may still not like it. If you want louder bass just increase the sub level in the AVR by 3 to 6 dB. So if Audyssey set them to -9, change them to -6 or even -3 and you will be happy. As others have suggested, it is better to leave the sub vol knobs alone.

By the way, people tend to say they set LFE to 120 Hz, to avoid confusion, please use the correct term "LPF" per D&M manuals.

 

[fuzz092888]

I just rerun audyssey if I make major changes to sub/speaker position, if I need to adjust gain a bit no big deal.

As I mentioned, no need to reduce IME, so having room to turn it down is meaningless to me. I do want to have as much headroom on the opamp side, no desire to use it in the positive range at all, let alone it's upper positive range. 4 dB boost plus whatever required by something like DynEQ is about my max, 6 once in a great while. Had to look where I last left it just now....+3dB on each channel.

ps...my avrs with Audyssey both go from -12 to +12 for level adjustments

Ok

 

[speakerman39]

Sub level is generally under speaker level settings; tone controls are generally bass and treble controls (which are usually not available in conjunction with Audyssey IME). Changing distance is changing delay and subs with their own amp processing likely will be set at a different physical difference to account for that processing time; I would leave any distance setting for the speakers alone, maybe play with the delay for the sub to affect phase. Might want to look into the subject in these threads

Tom V told me that the "Room Size" setting is really a delay knob. He further went on to explain that since my room is very small try to set the S1500's equidistant from the MLP. If you look at my pics over @my Hanging In There thread you can easily see that I have done just that. Both S1500's are set to "Small" room which is supposed to give me that punch/tightness that I oh so crave.

I have played with the "Small"/delay setting some, but did NOT notice a BIG difference. So. I decided to just leave it alone and set back to "Small". It seems to work well for me that way. One of these days I may get around to measuring my in room FR. Until then, I prefer to just leave it on "Small:.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[fuzz092888]

Tom V told me that the "Room Size" setting is really a delay knob. He further went on to explain that since my room is very small try to set the S1500's equidistant from the MLP. If you look at my pics over @my Hanging In There thread you can easily see that I have done just that. Both S1500's are set to "Small" room which is supposed to give me that punch/tightness that I oh so crave.

I have played with the "Small"/delay setting some, but did NOT notice a BIG difference. So. I decided to just leave it alone and set back to "Small". It seems to work well for me that way. One of these days I may get around to measuring my in room FR. Until then, I prefer to just leave it on "Small:.


Cheers,

Phil

If the room size if a delay and you ran the room correction after you set the delay, the receiver would have compensated for the room size/delay setting. If you didn't and you were just playing with the room size/delay knob you probably didn't notice a difference because the changes are in miliseconds and unless you were watching something bass heavy and where things happened very quickly then it might still be tough to notice.

 

[speakerman39]

Yes, if you plan to turn the sub level down then that would be a good plan. Didn't sound like Phil wants to go that direction at all....and can't say I've ever felt the need either.

Correct, really don't want to turn sub levels down any lower than it already is. From the start when level matching, it is recommended to put the subs volume knob @halfway. However, then it goes on to tell me that my "sub's volume is too high". So, turning the volume knob down until it gets closer to a 75 db reading. It is very hard to get it to read exactly 75 db. So, I get as close as I can. When I do the color turns "Green" on both. To get a very close to 75 db reading the volume knobs are between the 9:00 and 10:00 o'clock position respectively. As such, both subs are level matched and the delay should be on an equal playing filed with respect to the MLP.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

I'm always tweaking my system for the flattest response possible, but occasionally like to boost the bass a little bit. I don't think anyone who's been over to my place would say I'm not a bass head, however, if you seriously need 19 db of boost then you clearly are a basshead and clearly don't desire a flat response. At 0 that should give you 10 ticks of boost, but only -1 in case of any changes. Any placement change of your main speakers/subwoofer or addition of subwoofers means that you have to start to play with subwoofer gains in addition to Audyssey settings. Staying around 0 still gives you +10 and -10, but starting at -9 seriously hamstrings you. I'm at a loss for what you'd be listening to at -9 and then need an adjustment all the way up to +10. It just doesn't make sense to me, but as long as it does and it works for you, power to you. It's just not something I would ever recommend because I don't see what there is to gain from it. However, if it makes sense to whomever is adjusting their own system, then I guess it works for them/you.

Alex, I am trying to get the flattest response at the MLP. However, just need a bit more low end. Okay allow me to rephrase: A LOT MORE.....LOL!!!! But, I do NOT listen @Reference levels. Would get evicted if I did. Have to be thoughtful of my neighbors. On occasion, I do rock out a bit.....LOL!!!! No really, my goal is to just augment what I have now.


Cheers,

Phil