Audyssey Results?

[fuzz092888]

Alex, I am trying to get the flattest response at the MLP. However, just need a bit more low end. Okay allow me to rephrase: A LOT MORE.....LOL!!!! But, I do NOT listen @Reference levels. Would get evicted if I did. Have to be thoughtful of my neighbors. On occasion, I do rock out a bit.....LOL!!!! No really, my goal is to just augment what I have now.


Cheers,

Phil

My point was, are you really boosting the sub level 10+ tics? I mean, if you are then yea, leveling to -9 might be the way to go, but at that point the bass becomes so overwhelming, IMO, that it negatively affects whatever you're trying to listen to. Maybe if you don't have enough subwoofer for your space that would be worth it (to boost that much), but I can't imagine that with two of those subs in your space that you would need to boost that much.

Besides, I would think boosting a narrow band might get you more of the visceral feel your'e looking for and boosting the whole subwoofer band. Better yet, bass shakers might be a wise investment.

 

[speakerman39]

Hi Phil, Audyssey is supposed to flatten your subs frequency response but even if it manages to do that you may still not like it. If you want louder bass just increase the sub level in the AVR by 3 to 6 dB. So if Audyssey set them to -9, change them to -6 or even -3 and you will be happy. As others have suggested, it is better to leave the sub vol knobs alone.

By the way, people tend to say they set LFE to 120 Hz, to avoid confusion, please use the correct term "LPF" per D&M manuals.

This is exactly how I do it Peng. From what I am garnering, it is best to turn the levels up on my AVR and leave the volume knob on my S1500's alone. So, I will do just that and go from there. Since I reside in a small 1BR apartment, there is no need to go crazy with sub levels. Just need to augment. We have discussed this before....LOL!!! Thanks for the help once again Peng!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

Tom V told me that the "Room Size" setting is really a delay knob. He further went on to explain that since my room is very small try to set the S1500's equidistant from the MLP. If you look at my pics over @my Hanging In There thread you can easily see that I have done just that. Both S1500's are set to "Small" room which is supposed to give me that punch/tightness that I oh so crave.

I have played with the "Small"/delay setting some, but did NOT notice a BIG difference. So. I decided to just leave it alone and set back to "Small". It seems to work well for me that way. One of these days I may get around to measuring my in room FR. Until then, I prefer to just leave it on "Small:.


Cheers,

Phil

I wasn't aware of that feature on a sub, will have to go and take a look at that....I am also curious as to whether you set that pre- or post- Audyssey?

 

[speakerman39]

If the room size if a delay and you ran the room correction after you set the delay, the receiver would have compensated for the room size/delay setting. If you didn't and you were just playing with the room size/delay knob you probably didn't notice a difference because the changes are in miliseconds and unless you were watching something bass heavy and where things happened very quickly then it might still be tough to notice.

I have left the "Room Size" setting on it lowest which is marked "Small". I do this before running Audyssey. After running Audyssey I have played around a bit with the setting moving it towards the "Large" setting. But, did NOT really notice that much of a difference so I set it back to "Small". Have left it that way ever since. Kind of like "Don't Mess W/The Red One" kind of thing....LOL!!!!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

My point was, are you really boosting the sub level 10+ tics? I mean, if you are then yea, leveling to -9 might be the way to go, but at that point the bass becomes so overwhelming, IMO, that it negatively affects whatever you're trying to listen to. Maybe if you don't have enough subwoofer for your space that would be worth it (to boost that much), but I can't imagine that with two of those subs in your space that you would need to boost that much.

Besides, I would think boosting a narrow band might get you more of the visceral feel your'e looking for and boosting the whole subwoofer band. Better yet, bass shakers might be a wise investment.

No, I am not boosting no where close to 10 ticks. Have never done that. Plan to increase the levels on my AVR 4-5 db and then go from there. Not going to move the volume knobs at all. See how it sounds then. But, can NOT do it right now for various reasons. Maybe I can tomorrow. Remember, I don't listen at reference levels. The loudest that I ever has my AVR is like 75 db. it goes all the way to 98 db. No real need to ever go much above 75 db in the best of circumstances as in rocking out. Just need to augment what I have now. When finances are better, will look into the bass shaker thing. Thanks for your help!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

I wasn't aware of that feature on a sub, will have to go and take a look at that....I am also curious as to whether you set that pre- or post- Audyssey?

It has always been set PRE. I did play with the "Room Size" knob some, but later set it back to "Small". It has been there ever since.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Okay so my next question is will it be better to toe in my 530's along with my stands OR keep the stands straight and just toe in the 530's? Does it really matter? Will I also need to redo Audyssey each and every time I make a small adjustment? Really don't think that the 530's is going to need much toe in. Maybe just a little as others have mentioned. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[fuzz092888]

I have left the "Room Size" setting on it lowest which is marked "Small". I do this before running Audyssey. After running Audyssey I have played around a bit with the setting moving it towards the "Large" setting. But, did NOT really notice that much of a difference so I set it back to "Small". Have left it that way ever since. Kind of like "Don't Mess W/The Red One" kind of thing....LOL!!!!


Cheers,

Phil

Yea, changing that will only affect the delay a few miliseconds. The manual should say exactly how many, but once Audyssey is run the knob is moot. It's only for people running their sub without a receiver.

No, I am not boosting no where close to 10 ticks. Have never done that. Plan to increase the levels on my AVR 4-5 db and then go from there. Not going to move the volume knobs at all. See how it sounds then. But, can NOT do it right now for various reasons. Maybe I can tomorrow. Remember, I don't listen at reference levels. The loudest that I ever has my AVR is like 75 db. it goes all the way to 98 db. No real need to ever go much above 75 db in the best of circumstances as in rocking out. Just need to augment what I have now. When finances are better, will look into the bass shaker thing. Thanks for your help!


Cheers,

Phil

If you're not boosting all that much, you don't need to go down to -9. Maybe only -2 or -3, and remember this is so that you set the gain knob on your subwoofer so that after you run Audyssey it ends up naturally at -2 or -3. This way the preout voltage is set to a decent level, but isn't too high all the time nor too low which would force the amplifier on the subwoofer to work a touch, and only a touch, harder to meet the desired level. In the grand scheme of things it won't make a huge difference, but keeping things away from the edges is always advisable.

Okay so my next question is will it be better to toe in my 530's along with my stands OR keep the stands straight and just toe in the 530's? Does it really matter? Will I also need to redo Audyssey each and every time I make a small adjustment? Really don't think that the 530's is going to need much toe in. Maybe just a little as others have mentioned. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

Doesn't matter. Whichever is more aesthetically pleasing. Yes run Audyssey after every small adjustment. I think I had mentioned this before with another pair of your speakers. Try straight ahead, crossed slightly behind the LP, crossed at the LP, and crossed slightly in front of the LP and see which sounds best to you.

What I mean by crossed, in case it isn't clear, is that if you shot a laser in the direction each speaker is facing, the beams should cross just behind your head, at your head, and then slightly in front of your head. Then of course no toe in.

 

[speakerman39]

Yea, changing that will only affect the delay a few miliseconds. The manual should say exactly how many, but once Audyssey is run the knob is moot. It's only for people running their sub without a receiver.



If you're not boosting all that much, you don't need to go down to -9. Maybe only -2 or -3, and remember this is so that you set the gain knob on your subwoofer so that after you run Audyssey it ends up naturally at -2 or -3. This way the preout voltage is set to a decent level, but isn't too high all the time nor too low which would force the amplifier on the subwoofer to work a touch, and only a touch, harder to meet the desired level. In the grand scheme of things it won't make a huge difference, but keeping things away from the edges is always advisable.



Doesn't matter. Whichever is more aesthetically pleasing. Yes run Audyssey after every small adjustment. I think I had mentioned this before with another pair of your speakers. Try straight ahead, crossed slightly behind the LP, crossed at the LP, and crossed slightly in front of the LP and see which sounds best to you.

What I mean by crossed, in case it isn't clear, is that if you shot a laser in the direction each speaker is facing, the beams should cross just behind your head, at your head, and then slightly in front of your head. Then of course no toe in.

Got it Alex. So, increase the levels on my Denon until it is at -3 db-2 db right? Leave the volume knob on my S1500's alone. Just change on my Denon right? Right now both S1500's volume knob are at the 9:00-10:00 position. They were level matched to as close to 75 db I could get before running Audyssey. I don't mess with the "Room Size" knob at all. It is set to "Small" on both of the S1500's. In other words, they are set the exact same way.

Once I get the S1500's dialed in correctly, then I will experiment with toe in just the way that you recommend I do. See what I like best and what I prefer. My guess is, not much toe in is going to be needed. It is a lot of work, but it may just pay off for me. Thanks for the help Alex!


Cheers,

Phil

PS Will also look into the bass shakers too!

 

[fuzz092888]

Got it Alex. So, increase the levels on my Denon until it is at -3 db-2 db right? Leave the volume knob on my S1500's alone. Just change on my Denon right? Right now both S1500's volume knob are at the 9:00-10:00 position. They were level matched to as close to 75 db I could get before running Audyssey. I don't mess with the "Room Size" knob at all. It is set to "Small" on both of the S1500's. In other words, they are set the exact same way.

Once I get the S1500's dialed in correctly, then I will experiment with toe in just the way that you recommend I do. See what I like best and what I prefer. My guess is, not much toe in is going to be needed. It is a lot of work, but it may just pay off for me. Thanks for the help Alex!


Cheers,

Phil

PS Will also look into the bass shakers too!

No, no, when you're running Audyssey and it asks you to level your subs set it right at 75-80ish, this should force Audyssey to level itself to -2 to -4 or somewhere in there for the sub level. This way the sub will be leveled to reference at -2, -3, or whatever and will give you some additional room to boost from there without being too high.

Toe in is highly subjective and I messed with it a lot with the Testarossa's a lot before I got it the way I wanted it. I actually ended up with one toed in more than the other, but that's due to all the crap I have in my basement and poor placement etc etc.

Bass shakers will really help a lot and allow you to keep your volume levels low while still getting that visceral feel.

 

[PENG]

Phil, when you run Audyssey again, turn the volume of the sub up to the point the screen display shows high 70's (say 77/78) most of the time without turn red, or just turning red momentarily but otherwise stay green 90% of the time. That way, when Audyssey is done you will likely see that the sub levels set to between 0 and -3. As fuzz said it really shouldn't matter, but still, why not aim to have things closer to 0 if you apparently have time to play around.

 

[herbu]

I agree w/ peng and fuzz. The recommendation to set your sub knob at 12:00 is just a ballpark. Like you, I don't turn my subs down below where they were set by Audyssey. I do turn them up for TV/Movies. But I like my operating range to be in the middle of the AVR's capability.

I can't say with any kind of technical authority, but it seems generally that adjustable parameters are not linear. I mean adjustments at the extremes may not be exactly the same as adjustments in the middle. And possibly the same for performance. Either way, it gives me peace of mind to be around the middle of a range rather than at an extreme.

 

[speakerman39]

Phil, when you run Audyssey again, turn the volume of the sub up to the point the screen display shows high 70's (say 77/78) most of the time without turn red, or just turning red momentarily but otherwise stay green 90% of the time. That way, when Audyssey is done you will likely see that the sub levels set to between 0 and -3. As fuzz said it really shouldn't matter, but still, why not aim to have things closer to 0 if you apparently have time to play around.

Yeah, that is how I plan to do it. Really like how herbu puts "in the middle of performance". That is really more of what I am after. Not really a bass head per se for the most part. But, when I can I do rock out some here and there. More specifically, I seldom go above 75 db when listening to music. Can turn it all the way up to 98 db which is full blast but, I will NEVER even get close to that.

On BR's I have to turn the volume down to more like 68-72 db most of the time. Just depends on how much bass is in the movie. Ninja Assassins from the very beginning has plenty of it! Great movie too, but it is very bloody. Just love the story line.

Both Zieg and Joe have mentioned that the candy bars being in the way of how I have my 520c placed. Really don't like my tv setting atop of my 520c as I know it is NOT optimal to do so. It is just a temporary placement for the time being. Going to also angle the 520c up higher towards ear level, as well as, toe in the 530's some. See how it all sounds. It looks like I will be running Audyssey quite a lot today. Right now, it is a bit too early to start doing so. No need to upset my neighbors. Thanks for all of the help guys!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Okay folks I have been hard at it today. First thing that I did was run Audyssey again. However, when it came to sub level matching it did NOT allow me to redo. It said sub level matching complete. As such, I just went ahead and did a total reset. It only takes a minute to do so which means I started completely over.

Second thing that I did was remove ALL of the candy that was on top of my coffee table. Moved them temporarily to my kitchen table. I redid the sub level matching in order to get closer to 80 db for both. In other words, I got them as close to 80 db while still staying in the "Green". After running Audyssey here are the results:

Front Large
Center Large
Subwoofer 2 speakers

FL 8.4' -.5 db
FR 8.6' 0 db
Center 7.6' -3.5 db
Sub 1 13.2' -12.0 db
Sub 2 10.2' -12.0 db

Dynamic EQ Enabled
Dynamic Volume Disabled
LFC Disabled

First thing that I did was go back into the "Manual" setup and set the fronts/center to small w/ a X-over of 80 hz. Then, I adjusted the levels on both subs to -5.0 db. I also bumped the center from -3.5 db to -1.5 db. As such, things sound a whole lot better. Much more kick drum presence. The 520c has wowed me now for sure!

In PL II mode, AC/DC's Back In Black sounded very good. The 520c never once sounded stressed. The mixing on this cd is just incredible. On track 3 of Pink Floyd's The Wall Disc 1 Another Brick In The Wall Part 1 the 520c really came alive. Better yet, on track 4 "The Happiest Days Of Our Lives" when the helicopter comes in sounded so real that I felt the need to lower my head......LOL!!! Wow! Was only listening at 70 db and it was plenty loud.

On track 5 Another Brick In The Wall Part 2 was stellar. The 520c handled the guitar solo at 2:09 like a champ! At 2:31 sec and again at 2:50 sec respectively the 520c really came to life. Holy smokes I was so impressed.

I also put in Hell Freezes Over on dvd in and sat down for a listen. I usually skip right to Chapter 5 to listen to Hotel California. At 1056 the guitar really brings out just how good the tweeter sounds on the JBL's. Both the 530's and/or the 520c handled that track w/o any stress whatsoever. Plus, the sound was very cohesive in that it all sounded like one unit if you will. At 1120 on the dial the guitar ripples had a lot of air behind it and it sounded quite extended. The notes only get higher in frequency and intensity. Thus, at 1134 on the dial right before the kick drums come in will show you just how extended the JBL tweeters really are. WOW! Well done!

Decided to put in a BR. Have one of my favorites on hand titled Ninja Assassins. Yes, it is a bit bloody. But, behind all that it has a very good story line. Plus, who doesn't like Ninjas right? Anyways, at 4:10 into the movie the 520c really made a believer out of me! It certainly was in its element. At times, thought my room was going to become ripped apart. At 4:39 the gun shots were so realistic sounding that I started to take cover myself...LOL!!! WOW!

In closing, I did move my tv off of the 520c for the time being. Very glad that I did because I was then able to put (2) door stoppers under it. That allowed me to angle the 520c up more towards ear level. I did NOT rerun Audyssey again because it sounds terrific now. No need to do again.

Still tweaking my S1500's a bit. May have lowered the levels a bit too much. More to come on that. But for now, I am happy with the way my JBL's are sounding. The S1500's also sound much better. Just want to thank everyone here that has helped me along the way. It is most appreciated guys! YOU guys rock!


Cheers,

Phil

PS Oh yeah, almost forgot the pics!

 

[lovinthehd]

The setting of the subs at -12 each indicates your gain on the subs is too high unless your avr has a larger range than -12. That screen being blocked by a speaker would drive me nuts I think you mentioned before, but don't remember, have you tried putting subs other than together on the front wall?

 

[speakerman39]

The setting of the subs at -12 each indicates your gain on the subs is too high unless your avr has a larger range than -12. That screen being blocked by a speaker would drive me nuts I think you mentioned before, but don't remember, have you tried putting subs other than together on the front wall?

Yes, I noticed the sub setting. But, I bumped it to -5 db. That may be just a little much. Will tweak it some more as I go. Things certainly sound much better now. As far as the 520c sitting in front of my tv, I agree it is a bit of a problem. All I need to do is just put a small platform under my tv that will raise it up about 6".

Going to Lowes tomorrow to see what I can find. It should be a very easy fix. Plus, going to get a set of larger door stoppers so I can angle the 520c even higher closer to ear level. Doing what I have done today has made a night and day difference. It is ONLY going to get better.

The 530's and the 520c gel together very well. Sounds like one cohesive wall of sound. Very impressed to say the least. In time, plan to treat my room as well. Right now, finances will not allow me to do so. The S1500's sound fine where they are. At least, for the time being anyways.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, I noticed the sub setting. But, I bumped it to -5 db. That may be just a little much. Will tweak it some more as I go. Things certainly sound much better now. As far as the 520c sitting in front of my tv, I agree it is a bit of a problem. All I need to do is just put a small platform under my tv that will raise it up about 6".

Going to Lowes tomorrow to see what I can find. It should be a very easy fix. Plus, going to get a set of larger door stoppers so I can angle the 520c even higher closer to ear level. Doing what I have done today has made a night and day difference. It is ONLY going to get better.

The 530's and the 520c gel together very well. Sounds like one cohesive wall of sound. Very impressed to say the least. In time, plan to treat my room as well. Right now, finances will not allow me to do so. The S1500's sound fine where they are. At least, for the time being anyways.


Cheers,

Phil

Yes, you do like your subs turned up it seems Good going on getting the center positioned better. Might even try a setup without the table in front of the speakers.....

Might want to just search the internet for tv riser stand or similar before popping in Lowes

 

[PENG]

Phil, just for fun, run Audyssey one more time but this time turn the sub volume down to aim for 75 dB but stay green, even slightly below and turing red is fine as long as it stays green most of the time. Just make sure it doesn't go higher than 75/75.5 on average. I bet the you will get sub level closer to zero this time.

 

[speakerman39]

Yes, you do like your subs turned up it seems Good going on getting the center positioned better. Might even try a setup without the table in front of the speakers.....

Might want to just search the internet for tv riser stand or similar before popping in Lowes

I just checked the volume knobs on my subs. One is a tad bit shy of the 11:00 O'clock position whereas the other is not quite at the 10:00 O'clock. That is kind of odd, no? Like I said, -5 db may be just a bit much. Might just need to turn them down a notch or so. Really don't think that the table is causing any real issues, but evidently the candy bars did...LOL!!! My hat goes off for both Zieg and Joe for bringing that to my attention. The JBL's are NOT going anywhere. They both are keepers!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Phil, just for fun, run Audyssey one more time but this time turn the sub volume down to aim for 75 dB but stay green, even slightly below and turing red is fine as long as it stays green most of the time. Just make sure it doesn't go higher than 75/75.5 on average. I bet the you will get sub level closer to zero this time.

Okay I can do that. I will have to do a total reset if I do it that way though. Is that really a good idea given that things sounds so much better now? If so, then I am all for it. Will get the tri-pod out and the mic. Let me know if you still want me to do it that way.


Cheers,

Phil