Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #341 Replicant 7 said: The one where that lil squiggly line says it sounds better. Click to expand... The one that sounds like yours then. Okay. That actually makes sense. So now we would call that chart YOUR reference. It can be your personal goal for every setup and having the right gear means you can make it sound like that on any system you own. See how that works now? Reactions: Replicant 7
Replicant 7 said: The one where that lil squiggly line says it sounds better. Click to expand... The one that sounds like yours then. Okay. That actually makes sense. So now we would call that chart YOUR reference. It can be your personal goal for every setup and having the right gear means you can make it sound like that on any system you own. See how that works now?
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 24, 2022 #342 Replicant 7 said: The one where that lil squiggly line says it sounds better. Click to expand... Bottom line - if your system (speakers, subs) sounds awesome, then it's awesome. If your system doesn't sound as awesome as you want, like UNEVEN response or lack of bass even though you crank up the bass level, then you might need some help and spend $110 on that UMIK-1. So I guess for people who have always experienced awesome sound quality without much room EQ, we might be blessed with good room acoustics. But for people who just can't seem to get that great sound exactly the way they want due to room acoustics, they might want to spend that $110. Reactions: Pogre and Replicant 7
Replicant 7 said: The one where that lil squiggly line says it sounds better. Click to expand... Bottom line - if your system (speakers, subs) sounds awesome, then it's awesome. If your system doesn't sound as awesome as you want, like UNEVEN response or lack of bass even though you crank up the bass level, then you might need some help and spend $110 on that UMIK-1. So I guess for people who have always experienced awesome sound quality without much room EQ, we might be blessed with good room acoustics. But for people who just can't seem to get that great sound exactly the way they want due to room acoustics, they might want to spend that $110.
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #343 AcuDefTechGuy said: Bottom line - if your system (speakers, subs) sounds awesome, then it's awesome. Click to expand... See what I said above. If that's what sounds better to him then it becomes his reference target. That's why I say reference is a moving target and different for everyone. Bottom line is, once you know what you like, you can measure it, know what it looks like and almost perfectly replicate it on any system you own. Now or in the future. It doesn't matter what you prefer. It's nice to be able to achieve what you like with consistency tho, no matter what you buy, move or replace. THAT is the value of having a mic and the gear to make it happen.
AcuDefTechGuy said: Bottom line - if your system (speakers, subs) sounds awesome, then it's awesome. Click to expand... See what I said above. If that's what sounds better to him then it becomes his reference target. That's why I say reference is a moving target and different for everyone. Bottom line is, once you know what you like, you can measure it, know what it looks like and almost perfectly replicate it on any system you own. Now or in the future. It doesn't matter what you prefer. It's nice to be able to achieve what you like with consistency tho, no matter what you buy, move or replace. THAT is the value of having a mic and the gear to make it happen.
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #344 AcuDefTechGuy said: So I guess for people who have always experienced awesome sound quality without much room EQ, we might be blessed with good room acoustics. Click to expand... And this is a great point too. I'm positive some rooms sound just fine without any eq or room correction at all. If you're one of those guys that's great. In fact I could even see an argument for room correction making matters worse if your baseline is already good so sure, it's not for everyone. Those arent common tho, and as you can see from my "before" chart I'm not one of those guys, lol. The bass response in my room needs help, obviously, and there's no getting around it. It's terribly boomy and sounds bad by itself, Audyssey gets me into the goldilocks zone but makes it sound just a little thin. The Umik and Mini help me get it dialed in the rest of the way. Tho since the editor app came out I don't even need the mini anymore. I can make the same adjustments and get the same results with Audyssey by itself now using the editor app. Reactions: AcuDefTechGuy
AcuDefTechGuy said: So I guess for people who have always experienced awesome sound quality without much room EQ, we might be blessed with good room acoustics. Click to expand... And this is a great point too. I'm positive some rooms sound just fine without any eq or room correction at all. If you're one of those guys that's great. In fact I could even see an argument for room correction making matters worse if your baseline is already good so sure, it's not for everyone. Those arent common tho, and as you can see from my "before" chart I'm not one of those guys, lol. The bass response in my room needs help, obviously, and there's no getting around it. It's terribly boomy and sounds bad by itself, Audyssey gets me into the goldilocks zone but makes it sound just a little thin. The Umik and Mini help me get it dialed in the rest of the way. Tho since the editor app came out I don't even need the mini anymore. I can make the same adjustments and get the same results with Audyssey by itself now using the editor app.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 24, 2022 #345 Pogre said: See what I said above. If that's what sounds better to him then it becomes his reference target. That's why I say reference is a moving target and different for everyone. Bottom line is, once you know what you like, you can measure it, know what it looks like and almost perfectly replicate it on any system you own. Now or in the future. It doesn't matter what you prefer. It's nice to be able to achieve what you like with consistency tho, no matter what you buy, move or replace. THAT is the value of having a mic and the gear to make it happen. Click to expand... You could do that. But it's not necessary. Most of us have been listening to music/sound most of our lives - long before we spent that $110 on the UMIK-1. We already KNOW what our "Reference Point" is every day that we listen. We don't have to measure it. Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
Pogre said: See what I said above. If that's what sounds better to him then it becomes his reference target. That's why I say reference is a moving target and different for everyone. Bottom line is, once you know what you like, you can measure it, know what it looks like and almost perfectly replicate it on any system you own. Now or in the future. It doesn't matter what you prefer. It's nice to be able to achieve what you like with consistency tho, no matter what you buy, move or replace. THAT is the value of having a mic and the gear to make it happen. Click to expand... You could do that. But it's not necessary. Most of us have been listening to music/sound most of our lives - long before we spent that $110 on the UMIK-1. We already KNOW what our "Reference Point" is every day that we listen. We don't have to measure it.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 24, 2022 #346 Pogre said: And this is a great point too. I'm positive some rooms sound just fine without any eq or room correction at all. If you're one of those guys that's great. In fact I could even see an argument for room correction making matters worse if your baseline is already good so sure, it's not for everyone. Those arent common tho, and as you can see from my "before" chart I'm not one of those guys, lol. The bass response in my room needs help, obviously, and there's no getting around it. It's terribly boomy and sounds bad by itself, Audyssey gets me into the goldilocks zone but makes it sound just a little thin. The Umik and Mini help me get it dialed in the rest of the way. Tho since the editor app came out I don't even need the mini anymore. I can make the same adjustments and get the same results with Audyssey by itself now using the editor app. Click to expand... Is this the $20 Audyssey app or some other $200 app I heard a client asked me about?
Pogre said: And this is a great point too. I'm positive some rooms sound just fine without any eq or room correction at all. If you're one of those guys that's great. In fact I could even see an argument for room correction making matters worse if your baseline is already good so sure, it's not for everyone. Those arent common tho, and as you can see from my "before" chart I'm not one of those guys, lol. The bass response in my room needs help, obviously, and there's no getting around it. It's terribly boomy and sounds bad by itself, Audyssey gets me into the goldilocks zone but makes it sound just a little thin. The Umik and Mini help me get it dialed in the rest of the way. Tho since the editor app came out I don't even need the mini anymore. I can make the same adjustments and get the same results with Audyssey by itself now using the editor app. Click to expand... Is this the $20 Audyssey app or some other $200 app I heard a client asked me about?
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #347 AcuDefTechGuy said: You could do that. But it's not necessary. Most of us have been listening to music/sound most of our lives - long before we spent that $110 on the UMIK-1. We already KNOW what our "Reference Point" is every day that we listen. We don't have to measure it. Click to expand... Ah, but if it doesn't sound right then what? That's where knowing what your reference looks like and the measuring gear comes in. I think you put it very well already. AcuDefTechGuy said: But for people who just can't seem to get that great sound exactly the way they want due to room acoustics, they might want to spend that $110. Click to expand... Perfect. I completely agree. Reactions: AcuDefTechGuy
AcuDefTechGuy said: You could do that. But it's not necessary. Most of us have been listening to music/sound most of our lives - long before we spent that $110 on the UMIK-1. We already KNOW what our "Reference Point" is every day that we listen. We don't have to measure it. Click to expand... Ah, but if it doesn't sound right then what? That's where knowing what your reference looks like and the measuring gear comes in. I think you put it very well already. AcuDefTechGuy said: But for people who just can't seem to get that great sound exactly the way they want due to room acoustics, they might want to spend that $110. Click to expand... Perfect. I completely agree.
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #348 AcuDefTechGuy said: Is this the $20 Audyssey app or some other $200 app I heard a client asked me about? Click to expand... The $20 one. I'm not interested in dropping $200 for an app I don't need, lol. Reactions: AcuDefTechGuy
AcuDefTechGuy said: Is this the $20 Audyssey app or some other $200 app I heard a client asked me about? Click to expand... The $20 one. I'm not interested in dropping $200 for an app I don't need, lol.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 24, 2022 #349 Pogre said: Ah, but if it doesn't sound right then what? That's where the measuring gear comes in. I think you put it very well already. Perfect. I completely agree. Click to expand... Yeah, like you said before, it's a tool. And like any tool in life, it's there for you if you know how to use it properly. But you don't need to use the tool (whether it is a hammer, drill, saw, mic/REW) if it's not necessary. Reactions: panteragstk and Pogre
Pogre said: Ah, but if it doesn't sound right then what? That's where the measuring gear comes in. I think you put it very well already. Perfect. I completely agree. Click to expand... Yeah, like you said before, it's a tool. And like any tool in life, it's there for you if you know how to use it properly. But you don't need to use the tool (whether it is a hammer, drill, saw, mic/REW) if it's not necessary.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 24, 2022 #350 Pogre said: The $20 one. I'm not interested in dropping $200 for an app I don't need, lol. Click to expand... And that's another point - you don't need every single tool and sometimes you don't even need a tool. But these tools are available. Yeah, I told my client that I don't see the point of dropping $200 on that tool either. Reactions: Pogre
Pogre said: The $20 one. I'm not interested in dropping $200 for an app I don't need, lol. Click to expand... And that's another point - you don't need every single tool and sometimes you don't even need a tool. But these tools are available. Yeah, I told my client that I don't see the point of dropping $200 on that tool either.
S shadyJ Speaker of the House Staff member Oct 16, 2006 12,053 0 113 Feb 24, 2022 #351 Pogre said: @shadyJ, I know you use both terms quite often in your reviews. What's your take on "flat" vs "linear"? Or do you use them more or less to mean the same thing? Click to expand... Mostly the same thing. However, linear can encompass more. Flat normally just refers to the frequency response, whereas linear can also refer to distortion characteristics such as harmonic distortion or lack thereof. Reactions: Replicant 7 and Pogre
Pogre said: @shadyJ, I know you use both terms quite often in your reviews. What's your take on "flat" vs "linear"? Or do you use them more or less to mean the same thing? Click to expand... Mostly the same thing. However, linear can encompass more. Flat normally just refers to the frequency response, whereas linear can also refer to distortion characteristics such as harmonic distortion or lack thereof.
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #352 AcuDefTechGuy said: Yeah, like you said before, it's a tool. And like any tool in life, it's there for you if you know how to use it properly. But you don't need to use the tool (whether it is a hammer, drill, saw, mic/REW) if it's not necessary. Click to expand... I'm curious what your charts look like with and without Audyssey? You might hear your reference every day but you have no clue what or why you like what you do. We could zero right in on exactly what you don't like about MultEQ, enhance or detract with eq and possibly make it sound even better than what you have now. Then you'd have a new reference and feel like you got new speakers again!
AcuDefTechGuy said: Yeah, like you said before, it's a tool. And like any tool in life, it's there for you if you know how to use it properly. But you don't need to use the tool (whether it is a hammer, drill, saw, mic/REW) if it's not necessary. Click to expand... I'm curious what your charts look like with and without Audyssey? You might hear your reference every day but you have no clue what or why you like what you do. We could zero right in on exactly what you don't like about MultEQ, enhance or detract with eq and possibly make it sound even better than what you have now. Then you'd have a new reference and feel like you got new speakers again!
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #353 shadyJ said: Mostly the same thing. However, linear can encompass more. Flat normally just refers to the frequency response, whereas linear can also refer to distortion characteristics such as harmonic distortion or lack thereof. Click to expand... And that's pretty much where I'm at with it! I'm using linearity to refer to distortion characteristics. I just wasn't doing a very good job of explaining it as succinctly as you just did.
shadyJ said: Mostly the same thing. However, linear can encompass more. Flat normally just refers to the frequency response, whereas linear can also refer to distortion characteristics such as harmonic distortion or lack thereof. Click to expand... And that's pretty much where I'm at with it! I'm using linearity to refer to distortion characteristics. I just wasn't doing a very good job of explaining it as succinctly as you just did.
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #354 Pogre said: I don't do much to my speakers. All the stuff I'm posting is bass. Mainly subwoofers! Click to expand... I just wanted to reiterate this one. I'll talk up Audyssey all day based on how well it works with my subwoofage, but I'm not a big proponent of using a bunch of eq on main speakers, especially if you already have good speakers. In my case and likely most others tho, the room is in charge of the bass. No matter how good your subs or speakers are, if you can't nail placement or the room doesn't want to cooperate you're SOL without some kind of intervention, and for those cases the right tools for the job are invaluable. Reactions: ryanosaur
Pogre said: I don't do much to my speakers. All the stuff I'm posting is bass. Mainly subwoofers! Click to expand... I just wanted to reiterate this one. I'll talk up Audyssey all day based on how well it works with my subwoofage, but I'm not a big proponent of using a bunch of eq on main speakers, especially if you already have good speakers. In my case and likely most others tho, the room is in charge of the bass. No matter how good your subs or speakers are, if you can't nail placement or the room doesn't want to cooperate you're SOL without some kind of intervention, and for those cases the right tools for the job are invaluable.
Kaskade89052 Audioholic Ninja Apr 7, 2020 3,573 0 36 Feb 24, 2022 #355 lovinthehd said: 2EQ is not even close to the better Audyssey platforms.....it's pretty bad by all accounts as it's not even a MultEQ version. FWIW. Click to expand... I know. That's why I mentioned it in the context of the comment made to me.
lovinthehd said: 2EQ is not even close to the better Audyssey platforms.....it's pretty bad by all accounts as it's not even a MultEQ version. FWIW. Click to expand... I know. That's why I mentioned it in the context of the comment made to me.
H HT4Life Audioholic Intern Dec 12, 2021 35 0 6 63 Feb 24, 2022 #356 Wow, so much wordification and graphicacation so much proofication and rationalization, trust ur ears. i have also seen that measurements are only as good as that moment and that exact place of the mic was taken Lol, i mean that exact place LxWxH location which is where my head isnt in a locked location. Its a bit more forgiving of lower frequencies Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
Wow, so much wordification and graphicacation so much proofication and rationalization, trust ur ears. i have also seen that measurements are only as good as that moment and that exact place of the mic was taken Lol, i mean that exact place LxWxH location which is where my head isnt in a locked location. Its a bit more forgiving of lower frequencies
Replicant 7 Audioholic Samurai Jun 29, 2021 2,363 0 36 Feb 24, 2022 #358 Well there is this from James. The only time I've used Adyssey was way back in umm 2012 if my memory serves me right XT32? Anyways had two subs, Adyssey did help big time with dialing in my 2 subs. Shady J, posted this a few years back. Reactions: Kaskade89052
Well there is this from James. The only time I've used Adyssey was way back in umm 2012 if my memory serves me right XT32? Anyways had two subs, Adyssey did help big time with dialing in my 2 subs. Shady J, posted this a few years back.
Pogre Audioholic Slumlord Jul 29, 2016 16,146 0 113 56 Mesa, Arizona Feb 24, 2022 #359 Replicant 7 said: Well there is this from James. The only time I've used Adyssey was way back in umm 2012 if my memory serves me right XT32? Anyways had two subs, Adyssey did help big time with dialing in my 2 subs. Shady J, posted this a few years back. View attachment 54148 Click to expand... And? That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying!
Replicant 7 said: Well there is this from James. The only time I've used Adyssey was way back in umm 2012 if my memory serves me right XT32? Anyways had two subs, Adyssey did help big time with dialing in my 2 subs. Shady J, posted this a few years back. View attachment 54148 Click to expand... And? That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying!
Replicant 7 Audioholic Samurai Jun 29, 2021 2,363 0 36 Feb 24, 2022 #360 Pogre said: And? That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying! Click to expand... And? Well here it is bubby! I remember where you started from Pogre! You didn't always have those very nice speakers and that RBH Sub you got stashed behind your couch that you won't sell me! Guess it's true what they say, once someone hits the big time they forget about their friends in low places. Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
Pogre said: And? That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying! Click to expand... And? Well here it is bubby! I remember where you started from Pogre! You didn't always have those very nice speakers and that RBH Sub you got stashed behind your couch that you won't sell me! Guess it's true what they say, once someone hits the big time they forget about their friends in low places.
