Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Planned

[clouso]

what i mean is take SVS as an exemple....they are known for theire great drivers? no?

 

[Warpdrv]

warp if i may ask you...what is the difference between a custom driver DIY and a custom driver from a manufacturer?...dont they build their own drivers too?

Correct....

Basically what I'm getting at is that even though there are many drivers out there, (commercial, pro audio, car audio) design, attention to detail, build quality specs of these drivers is what will determine the final response and how they measure in the end....

Before Ilkka starting doing his measurements at HTS, many HT sub manufacturers distortion issues went unchecked as they really didn't post measurements of such details.... LOUD doesn't always mean good sound. Ultimately I'm sure all this kind of discussion was going on long before I started looking into HT subs, but things really have gotten better for the consumer in the last few years with people posting measurements of all sorts of products avail, to kinda weed out the bad and bring light to some of the best...

There are many designs of driver construction, XBL^2, underhung, overhung, LMT... heck even more then I know but the internet has lots of info you can read about on stuff like this.

SVSound from what I remember was getting drivers from TC-Sounds at one point and time, then later hired on Stephen Ponte from TC-Sounds when they went under a few years back, so he has a great background of driver design, and was an amazing addition to SVS.

 

[clouso]

Correct....

Basically what I'm getting at is that even though there are many drivers out there, (commercial, pro audio, car audio) design, attention to detail, build quality specs of these drivers is what will determine the final response and how they measure in the end....

Before Ilkka starting doing his measurements at HTS, many HT sub manufacturers distortion issues went unchecked as they really didn't post measurements of such details.... LOUD doesn't always mean good sound. Ultimately I'm sure all this kind of discussion was going on long before I started looking into HT subs, but things really have gotten better for the consumer in the last few years with people posting measurements of all sorts of products avail, to kinda weed out the bad and bring light to some of the best...

There are many designs of driver construction, XBL^2, underhung, overhung, LMT... heck even more then I know but the internet has lots of info you can read about on stuff like this.

SVSound from what I remember was getting drivers from TC-Sounds at one point and time, then later hired on Stephen Ponte from TC-Sounds when they went under a few years back, so he has a great background of driver design, and was an amazing addition to SVS.

So what ever guy or name who produced the driver it is all the same...''custom''........if i have and idea to build a driver it iscustom..if a manufacturer as an idea about another driver it is still custom....you get my point?...all drivers have been created somewhere so that akes them all custom........

 

[GranteedEV]

what i mean is take SVS as an exemple....they are known for theire great drivers? no?

Even in this own thread, look back to where SVS said "we have drivers in our research facility that wipe the floor with the PB13U. They're just not economical to sell as production units".

That's one big thing. It's a bit easier to sell just an 18" or 21" driver to DIYers than to put it in a box and sell a 15 cu ft refridgerator sub.

 

[GranteedEV]

So what ever guy or name who produced the driver it is all the same...''custom''........if i have and idea to build a driver it iscustom..if a manufacturer as an idea about another driver it is still custom....you get my point?...all drivers have been created somewhere so that akes them all custom........

Huh? No, I don't get your point. I'm not following you at all here. You can go look at the thread I just made on funkywaves to get an idea of what I feel custom is about. I think that's a more appropriate venue for this discussion.

 

[clouso]

Huh? No, I don't get your point. I'm not following you at all here. You can go look at the thread I just made on funkywaves to get an idea of what I feel custom is about. I think that's a more appropriate venue for this discussion.

If you create or build a driver will it be considered a custom?

 

[clouso]

and btw of course SVS have already builded bigger then theire 13inches woofers such in the bp13 or pc 13....if they want they can create the most powerfull driver ever...but like you said why would they do it now...they must be still in businees in 10 years from now....its like panny and the pioneer engeneers...they could already build a plasma better then the kuro's but they must be carefull.....

 

[GranteedEV]

If you create or build a driver will it be considered a custom?

Sure. And when you pick a box, a port size, an amplifier, a finish, and then sell it under one name it's no longer custom-made for the end-user. It's properietary. It might be custom made for the goals of the company IE HSU but it's not custom made for your room, your listening habits, your WAF, etc.

 

[clouso]

Sure. And when you pick a box, a port size, an amplifier, a finish, and then sell it under one name it's no longer custom-made for the end-user. It's properietary. It might be custom made for the goals of the company IE HSU but it's not custom made for your room, your listening habits, your WAF, etc.

its playing with the words sorry....a driver is a driver who ever builded it.......

 

[GranteedEV]

and btw of course SVS have already builded bigger then theire 13inches woofers such in the bp13 or pc 13....if they want they can create the most powerfull driver ever...but like you said why would they do it now...they must be still in businees in 10 years from now....its like panny and the pioneer engeneers...they could already build a plasma better then the kuro's but they must be carefull.....

Exactly. But what about that one person who wishes they could have a modern day 68" 3D Kuro Elite? They're stuck with what they're offered and not what technology exists unless they're willing to DIY but in the case of TVs DIY or Custom-built isn't even an option.

 

[clouso]

but your right about that i can order what i want instead of something already made and builted..........

 

[GranteedEV]

its playing with the words sorry....a driver is a driver who ever builded it.......

SVS has custom SVS drivers for proprietary SVS usage.
TC Sounds has custom TC Sounds driver for any usage you or a company want.
Funkywaves uses TC Sounds drivers for any usage you want.

Make sense?

 

[clouso]

can you imagine SVS or HSU coming out with an 18incher?...it would be better then any DIY 18incher right now....thats what i think...lol

 

[GranteedEV]

can you imagine SVS or HSU coming out with an 18incher?...it would be better then any DIY 18incher right now....thats what i think...lol

Why would that be? That's a random unfounded assumption. Do they have the best 12 inch drivers for any given situation? 12" drivers are where HSU/ SVS make most of their profit but I bet ya that JL, Exodus, TC Sounds, Re, CSS, Seas, Infinity are all just as capable. Again, there's a design tradeoff with everything. There's many great companies out there but there's nothing SVS offers driverwise that puts it well ahead of the pack. What SVS does offer is a box for their driver.

And you can have the best driver in the world but you still need to put it in the correct box for a given end result. Commercial reality is to find high power handling drivers, put them in small boxes, and EQ them to get a desired response. DIYers don't need to sell so they can make infinite baffles, transmission lines, tapped horns, etc. DIY is virtually limitless whereas SVS, HSU, etc are still economically driven.

 

[clouso]

Why would that be? That's a random unfounded assumption.

according to their knowledge...quality...and what they could do with a 13incher.....

 

[GranteedEV]

according to their knowledge...quality...and what they could do with a 13incher.....

Knowledge - last I checked they don't have any amazing patents giving them access to some amazing secret technology. If anyone has that patent it's JL Audio with the venting they use IIRC.

Build quality has a threshold. Nothing about HSU or SVS has some unmatched benchmark setting in build quality.

and "what they could do with a 13 incher"... is what exactly? Make a nice overall subwoofer? Sorry, but the PB13U does not necessarily have the best 13 inch driver in the world. It has what it has and that's an excellent driver but nothing that leads me to believe an 18" SVS driver would wipe the floor with a XXX, RLP-18, Maelstrom-X 18, LMS-5100 Pro, or LMS-5400 Ultra.

 

[Warpdrv]

Custom is not just about the drivers, its about the whole package - as GranteedEV has been trying to point out to you...

A commercial company generally has to weigh the balances of what people will buy, how many, and what they can mass produce, package, and then ship... Lots of costs involved here....

Its not like there are going to be people lining up to buy subs the likes of what I built.... heck - 300lb's boxes with drivers, another 100lbs with external amps per box and external eq... thats 400lbs all in x 3 = 1200lbs + add in hand picked veener and finish... My CUSTOM build is completely un-compromised in its design, build strategy and implementation... Can you imagine what that would have cost for a company to do for mass production, and what would they charge ? A handful at best......

The only ones doing something like that is JL Audio with their Gotham, and Paradigm's new Sub 1 & 2, and look at the prices which they would like to command for that build and depth.... You can put together 3-4 of those Gothams or Sub 2's and they may start to come close to what ONE of my subs will do...

 

[GranteedEV]

Its not like there are going to be people lining up to buy subs the likes of what I built....

Those weak tiny little two-driver boxes? I would have build four walk-in closet sized 1800L hexagonal sealed boxes with triple LMS-5400U's. Duhhhh.

 

[clouso]

Knowledge - last I checked they don't have any amazing patents giving them access to some amazing secret technology. If anyone has that patent it's JL Audio with the venting they use IIRC.

Build quality has a threshold. Nothing about HSU or SVS has some unmatched benchmark setting in build quality.

and "what they could do with a 13 incher"... is what exactly? Make a nice overall subwoofer? Sorry, but the PB13U does not necessarily have the best 13 inch driver in the world. It has what it has and that's an excellent driver but nothing that leads me to believe an 18" SVS driver would wipe the floor with a XXX, RLP-18, Maelstrom-X 18, LMS-5100 Pro, or LMS-5400 Ultra.

ok take it easy my friend lol...your right on everything i am wrong on everything i said...thats cool.....SVS is crap and HSU is crap ok i got it...but i will enjoy my HSU...i tought everybody was liking the 13incher SVS...thats all..maybe i cant read anymore....i can just imagine what they could do with bigger drivers...

 

[GranteedEV]

SVS is crap and HSU is crap ok i got it...but i will enjoy my HSU...i tought everybody was liking the 13incher SVS...thats all..maybe i cant read anymore....i can just imagine what they could do with bigger drivers...

HSU is great.
SVS is great.
PB13U is nice.
PB19U or VTF-18 would be awesome but nothing leads me to believe they would be better subs or have better drivers than DIY. It's an unfounded assumption is all I'm saying.