Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Planned

[clouso]

Those weak tiny little two-driver boxes? I would have build four walk-in closet sized 1800L hexagonal sealed boxes with triple LMS-5400U's. Duhhhh.

exactly..if i want a special design i will make it done...but where will the guy find the driver?...if he builds it from start to end driver included then i call it costum... if its not his own driver can i still call it custom?...i think both of you dont get what i mean...but i perfectly know what you mean.......

 

[GranteedEV]

exactly..if i want a special design i will make it done...but where will the guy find the driver?...if he builds it from start to end driver included then i call it costum... if its not his own driver can i still call it custom?...i think both of you dont get what i mean...but i perfectly know what you mean.......

If I can choose the driver out of the many options out there, then that's enough as its behaviour will be dictaed by the power you feed it and the box you put it in. If you're saying I need to design the driver myself for a speaker to be called custom, then go ahead and say it but it's just nitpicking.

If it makes you feel any better, there's some guys on the HTS forums DIY designing a rotary woofer. There's your custom woofer. Oh wait, it uses available parts like motors and blades

Why can't you choose a driver out of the many excellent ones available out there?

And if you have limitless money go ahead and commission your "own uncompromised custom driver." Maybe get Kevin Haskins to reinitiate the Sicko Project for you.

 

[clouso]

HSU is great.
SVS is great.
PB13U is nice.
PB19U or VTF-18 would be awesome but nothing leads me to believe they would be better subs or have better drivers than DIY. It's an unfounded assumption is all I'm saying.

since those manufacturers never builded 18inchers its an unfounded assumption from you too....oh i know you didnt say the opposit but you think DIY would still be the best.........we are in the dark unless one build an 18incher......whhooaa...lol....

 

[GranteedEV]

but you think DIY would still be the best.

No, I don't. I made no assumption. Maybe SVS does make a better driver than any of the ones I listed. All I said was that you can't make a random assumption that it would be. Re-read my post.

I think if JL Audio, Dan Wiggins/Kevin Haskins etc, Thigpen, TC Sounds, Rythmik, Audessey, Seigfried Linkwitz, Bill Gates, Danley Sound Labs, Mark Seaton, and Harman International (and countless others) all pooled together into one super company only then could you even make any assumption that "x would make a better driver than what's out there right now"

 

[clouso]

If I can choose the driver out of the many options out there, then that's enough as its behaviour will be dictaed by the power you feed it and the box you put it in. If you're saying I need to design the driver myself for a speaker to be called custom, then go ahead and say it but it's just nitpicking.

If it makes you feel any better, there's some guys on the HTS forums DIY designing a rotary woofer. There's your custom woofer. Oh wait, it uses available parts like motors and blades

Why can't you choose a driver out of the many excellent ones available out there?

And if you have limitless money go ahead and commission your "own uncompromised custom driver." Maybe get Kevin Haskins to reinitiate the Sicko Project for you.

so all drivers available out there for DIY are better then what great companies build and use?...sorry but i have a hard time believing in that.....

 

[GranteedEV]

so all drivers available out there for DIY are better then what great companies build and use?...sorry but i have a hard time believing in that.....

And where did I say that? Do you even read my posts? Look, even if there was a <i>driver</i> better than stuff like what TC Sounds, Exodus, Re, Acoustic Elegance, B&C etc have to offer, you'd be stuck with the box, the finish, the amplifier limiations of commercial subwoofers. What part of that do you disagree with???

And then you go and tell me SVS would make a better driver. Uh okay. Maybe they would. I asked you why you assume they would, when there's no universal consensus that they have the best 13" driver or the best 12" driver in the world.

 

[Warpdrv]

so all drivers available out there for DIY are better then what great companies build and use?...sorry but i have a hard time believing in that.....

Dude you just can't seem to grasp the reality of what all of these 3rd party tests and measurements have been all about..... you go ahead and walk around with your blinders on - and you continue to upgrade to the next HYPED lastest and greatest sub fresh out on the market.....

This is a science - reality can be found in measurements, which is what this thread was supposed to be all about...

Somehow I'm starting to feel like RED from Shawshank Redemption.....

CUSTOM - It's just a bull$hit word. So you go on and stamp your form, sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because to tell you the truth, I don't give a $hit.

 

[clouso]

And where did I say that? Do you even read my posts?

you said it in a politically correct way in post 582....lol.....and yes i read all the posts...

 

[clouso]

Dude you just can't seem to grasp the reality of what all of these 3rd party tests and measurements have been all about..... you go ahead and walk around with your blinders on - and you continue to upgrade to the next HYPED lastest and greatest sub fresh out on the market.....

This is a science - reality can be found in measurements, which is what this thread was supposed to be all about...

Somehow I'm starting to feel like RED from Shawshank Redemption.....

ok you have the science... and great companies dont have it they just spend maybe millions on research....sorry if i bothered you...i have a lot more sense then you wanna hear....lots of people think like me btw they just dont say it here....

 

[GranteedEV]

you said it in a politically correct way in post 582....lol.....and yes i read all the posts...

No, I did not. I implied that the driver is only one small part of the behaviour of a subwoofer.

Let's look back into my post

Why can't you choose a driver out of the many excellent ones available out there?

In other words - even if a given company charging $12,000 for a 13 inch subwoofer actually has the "overall best driver at its size point", it doesn't matter. It's still got other limitations and they don't outweigh the choice of driver.

You could give me sub A the best drivers in the world, and sub B with some drivers that are slightly worse, and I garuntee you I could make sub B notably better overall.

 

[clouso]

No, I did not. I implied that the driver is only one small part of the behaviour of a subwoofer.

Let's look back into my post



In other words - even if a given company charging $12,000 for a 13 inch driver actually has the "overall best driver at its size point", it doesn't matter. It's still got other limitations and they don't outweigh the choice of driver.

You could give me sub A the best drivers in the world, and sub B with some drivers that are slightly worse, and I garuntee you I could make sub B notably better overall.

i am sure you would do a great job with sub b...but i dont know why you are still talking to me and warp also..i have no science and im an idiot...everything i said in that trhead is stupid and is all non sense...im done here on this thread.

 

[templemaners]

clouso, what GranteedEV and Warpdrv are trying to tell you makes a lot of sense (post 577 especially). These types of commercial companies, the SVS's and HSU's of the world, have to balance multiple factors that DIY's don't have to worry about, if they are so inclined. It comes down to a compromise of performance vs. marketability. DIY models don't have that compromise with regards to marketability.

 

[GranteedEV]

ok you have the science... and great companies dont have it they just spend maybe millions on research....

Huh? Have you bothered to wonder what they're researching? That maybe uncompromised performance is not of interest to their research if it doesn't correlate to profit?

have a lot more sense then you wanna hear....lots of people think like me btw they just dont say it here....

Huh? Whatever man. Enjoy yourself. Keep thinking what you want to think and keep reading what you want to read. I'm sick of explaining fundamental concepts to someone who doesn't bother to understand them.

 

[GranteedEV]

i dont know why you are still talking to me

Maybe because you keep making random statements with no foundation? And it's human nature to address something like that?

 

[clouso]

Huh? Have you bothered to wonder what they're researching? That maybe uncompromised performance is not of interest to their research if it doesn't correlate to profit?



Huh? Whatever man. Enjoy yourself. Keep thinking what you want to think and keep reading what you want to read. I'm sick of explaining fundamental concepts to someone who doesn't bother to understand them.

uhmm i learned more then you think here and even from you..lol....i know since a long time DIY are better because of the restrains manufacturers have....but you guys always bash on companies because you think your are the science infuse and because you own DIY stuff.....i have read a lot of forums and on the net.........you know what i am sick too............all you do all the time is try to disminished what guys are buying here....especially in the sub category.......im out and be happy too and think what ever you want....

 

[templemaners]

uhmm i learned more then you think here and even from you..lol....i know since a long time DIY are better because of the restrains manufacturers have....but you guys always bash on companies because you think your are the science infuse and because you own DIY stuff.....i have read a lot of forums and on the net.........you know what i am sick too............all you do all the time is try to disminished what guys are buying here....especially in the sub category.......im out and be happy too and think what ever you want....

I don't think anyone is bashing commercial makers. Subwoofers are probably the one part of the audio world that the Average Joe can make a product and have it be superior - or in the case of someone like Warpdrv, far superior - to what commercial sub makers can do. It's not like anyone says "I have a plan to make a seperates system in my garage that can out perform my Denon 5308".

Commercial makers will always have some place in the industry for those unable or unwilling to DIY.

Don't be so concerned with what other people think and just enjoy what you have.

 

[GranteedEV]

Re: Bashing manufacturers.


I went all the way back, ctrl+F'd my posts. Here's some excerpts of my bashing:

It might be custom made for the goals of the company IE HSU but it's not custom made for your room, your listening habits, your WAF, etc.

I'm totally bashing HSU here unless you disagree with facts.

SVS has custom SVS drivers for proprietary SVS usage.

You could email SVS and ask them if this is untrue or if they take any offense to this. THey would tell you the same thing

12" drivers are where HSU/ SVS make most of their profit

I may actually be wrong on this and 10" drivers may be closer to the reality. I don't see how this could be read as bashing.

Knowledge - last I checked they don't have any amazing patents giving them access to some amazing secret technology. If anyone has that patent it's JL Audio with the venting they use IIRC.

I said that SVS doesn't have something so out-there that separates them from the pack. How is that bashing? Did I call their technology inferior?

And JL makes commercial subs too btw.

Those weak tiny little two-driver boxes? I would have build four walk-in closet sized 1800L hexagonal sealed boxes with triple LMS-5400U's. Duhhhh.

Yes I'm bashing Warpdrv's DIY subs.

HSU is great.
SVS is great.
PB13U is nice.
PB19U or VTF-18 would be awesome

Reallly basshhinngg..

but nothing leads me to believe they would be better subs or have better drivers than DIY. It's an unfounded assumption is all I'm saying.

Not that I ever said they would be "worse". Only you made that implication.

Maybe SVS does make a better driver than any of the ones I listed. All I said was that you can't make a random assumption that it would be.

definitely bashing

And then you go and tell me SVS would make a better driver. Uh okay. Maybe they would. I asked you why you assume they would, when there's no universal consensus that they have the best 13" driver or the best 12" driver in the world.

If saying there's no universal concensus is bashing, guilty as charged

seriously dude.

 

[clouso]

Re: Bashing manufacturers.


I went all the way back, ctrl+F'd my posts. Here's some excerpts of my bashing:



I'm totally bashing HSU here unless you disagree with facts.



You could email SVS and ask them if this is untrue or if they take any offense to this. THey would tell you the same thing



I may actually be wrong on this and 10" drivers may be closer to the reality. I don't see how this could be read as bashing.



I said that SVS doesn't have something so out-there that separates them from the pack. How is that bashing? Did I call their technology inferior?

And JL makes commercial subs too btw.



Yes I'm bashing Warpdrv's DIY subs.



Reallly basshhinngg..




Not that I ever said they would be "worse". Only you made that implication.



definitely bashing



If saying there's no universal concensus is bashing, guilty as charged

seriously dude.

your right on everything ok..thats cool....

 

[mike c]

everybody seems to have said everything that can be said. open another thread if you wish to do further discussion ... or you can use this thread

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63415&highlight=diy+beats

 

[Sepen]

The HSU review has been completed and is under peer review. It should post on Wednesday of next week.

Snowed in for the day. Eagerly awaiting this.