Audio Critic's Ten Biggest Lies

[Hi-Fi ve]

And YES I also listen to Barba from time to time! I have a collection of over 4,000 CDs and LPs and my musical tastes are as diverse as the world we live in...

musicgioni, there's nothing wrong with having diverse musical taste. It's not often, if at all, that I encounter a man (I assume you are) who listens to Barbra Streisand. It was just a reaction, you know, like when you see something for the first time ever...

Members, correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't different circuit design of amp make audible difference even if they are both same type and competently designed? For example, class A solid state amp would sound different from class AB, B or C solid state amp even when level matched, wouldn't they? I'm asking because I never had the luxury of testing them side by side.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Members, correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't different circuit design of amp make audible difference even if they are both same type and competently designed? For example, class A solid state amp would sound different from class AB, B or C solid state amp even when level matched, wouldn't they? I'm asking because I never had the luxury of testing them side by side.

This assumption is not supported by any bias controlled, level matched, operation within design limits comparisons. Nor by this paper:

David Rich and Peter Aczel, 'Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that Modern Audio Electronics are Acoustically Transparent,' 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053.

Hearing, masking, etc is just not as sensitive as some wants to believe and think it is.

 

[jneutron]

Thanks for your input. Jneutron brought up an extreme condition of having 50F groundwater and running the tanks out of hot water. So, if the burner cannot keep pace heating the water quicker than it is being used, that tank liner could/would go below the dew point and vapors would condense, depending on the amount that is able to penetrate and the rate of penetration until the liner temp is above this dew point.

More insulation could not overheat the tank unless the high temp cut off probe is broken

Hey guys..hmmmm...lets see...talk bout water heaters, or the nature of the universe....hmmm, that's a tough one...


Mtry, I provided a scenario I believe your plumber was operating under. In the past, that was what was drummed into him. I bet it was a real thing to worry bout back in the day. He may not have had the education to determine if it was an issue to put one over a fully lined tank.

I do know that there are other problems with the extra blanket over a tank, though. Some thermostats lose calibration a bit if the cold end is not at room temp, and I seem to vaguely remember something about electric ones and external blankets, but I can't recall what that concern was.

I do not believe it is an issue with a foam lined tank nowadays. My point was, there may have been a real reason behind his statement, even though it appeared silly.

Honestly, I think most tanks will go from the inside out anyway. The last person I know who had a leaky tank asked me why it went so fast....I asked him when he changed the anodes...he said....what anodes??


QED..

btw, to get back on topic....6 or 7 of Peter's "lies"...he's wrong..

Cheers, John

 

[Highlander]

...I wanted to understand what constitutes "fundamental truths" to you...what the concept means to you.

What constitutes fundamental truth isn't open to interpretation. Nor is fundamental truth a concept. Fundamental truths exist.

The definition is the same for me as it is for you as it is for...If our definition of fundamental truth differs, then at least one of us has it wrong.

Don't bother asking. If you don't know, I'm not tellin'.

 

[Adam]

What constitutes fundamental truth isn't open to interpretation. Nor is fundamental truth a concept. Fundamental truths exist.

Clearly, you believe that it exists. However, while it may exist, Robbie, it is a concept.

The definition is the same for me as it is for you as it is for...If our definition of fundamental truth differs, then at least one of us has it wrong.

Well, tell us your definition so that we can compare or be enlightened, my friend. People often have different concepts of what the same phrase means. For example, "Dude, that's sick!" makes me think that something is unhealthy, as opposed to it meaning that something is exciting and cool. I'm a little behind on the lingo, obviously.

 

[Highlander]

First, if I keep appearing and disappearing offline, it's because my computer's going beserk at the moment. Must be nature guarding her secrets.

...it exists. However...it is a concept.

How is this not a contradiction?

Well, tell us your definition so that we can compare or be enlightened...

It's not going to happen Adam.

People often have different concepts of what the same phrase means.

Agreed. But consider; how could a truth be fundamental unless it was anything other than wholly unambiguous? Answer; It couldn't.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hey guys..hmmmm...lets see...talk bout water heaters, or the nature of the universe....hmmm, that's a tough one...


Mtry, I provided a scenario I believe your plumber was operating under. In the past, that was what was drummed into him. I bet it was a real thing to worry bout back in the day. He may not have had the education to determine if it was an issue to put one over a fully lined tank.

I do know that there are other problems with the extra blanket over a tank, though. Some thermostats lose calibration a bit if the cold end is not at room temp, and I seem to vaguely remember something about electric ones and external blankets, but I can't recall what that concern was.

I do not believe it is an issue with a foam lined tank nowadays. My point was, there may have been a real reason behind his statement, even though it appeared silly.

Honestly, I think most tanks will go from the inside out anyway. The last person I know who had a leaky tank asked me why it went so fast....I asked him when he changed the anodes...he said....what anodes??


QED..

btw, to get back on topic....6 or 7 of Peter's "lies"...he's wrong..

Cheers, John

Well, I didn't doubt your analogy setup and condensation if and when the tank is cooled by very cold water below the dew point that part is most clear to me
I did assume he was a master plumber though now that I think back since he only mentioned the years and teaching. My problem with him not knowing simple whys and his other problems. I even got the same answer from the lady on the phone without her knowing my issues. Not a good start.
I had an electrician in a class trying to explain how and why GFCI worked. The electrons escaped from one of the wires causing a current imbalance; not to ground, mind you but into space. So, experience has sensitized the BS detector

 

[Adam]

Must be nature guarding her secrets.

Or steadfastly trying to stop the propagation of lies. JUST KIDDING!

How is this not a contradiction?

Pass (read "heck if I know")...

It's not going to happen Adam.

Fair enough, my friend.

Agreed. But consider; how could a fundamental truth be fundamental at all if it was anything other than wholly unambiguous? Answer; It couldn't.

I wasn't saying that the truth (if it exists) is ambiguous. I was talking about our understanding or notion of it. That's all. Assume...and this is going to be a stretch ...that I'm a moron. I need to be spoon fed. That reminds me: "What is the truth?" "There is no spoon."

 

[stratman]

So fellows we're off water heaters then? Remember: tankless, it saves time and money and no insulation required. Available in electric or gas variant. Happy showering.

 

[jneutron]

I had an electrician in a class trying to explain how and why GFCI worked. The electrons escaped from one of the wires causing a current imbalance; not to ground, mind you but into space. So, experience has sensitized the BS detector

You asked him a question he didn't know the answer to.....in front of the class, no less.

What did you expect him to do? Not everybody can stand there and say "I don't know".

Oh Mtry, Mtry, Mtry....you're not one of those nerdy types that sit in class and whose only purpose is to ask questions they think the teacher can't answer, are you????

Well, he got current imbalance right, did ya give em partial credit???

(hadta fun ya....turnabout is fair play...)

Cheers, John

ps...didn't see ya post there, stratman...what, you'd rather talk bout Fundamental truths??? Sheesh..and ta think, I baited the thread with 6 or 7 of peter's things is Wrong I tell ya....just wrong...

pps..I just noticed that "thanks" stuff upper right hand corner...what's that all about...

Apparently, I've been doing a "tankless" job all along...

 

[Highlander]

Pass...

The boot's on the other foot now eh! If you don't know, how do you justify your previous statement?

"What is the truth?" "There is no spoon."

Matrix.

Einstein would agree. No doubt he'd say something along the lines of "of course there's no spoon. There's only energy".

 

[Adam]

The boot's on the other foot now eh! If you don't know, how do you justify your previous statement?

You're right. I should have answered it differently. Something like: There is no contradiction. That's obvious. Don't ask me to explain, because it's not going to happen.

Matrix.

Indeed. Great movie. Philosophy, religion, and no shortage of first-class gun fights. Beautiful stuff.

 

[Tomorrow]

What constitutes fundamental truth isn't open to interpretation. Nor is fundamental truth a concept. Fundamental truths exist.

The definition is the same for me as it is for you as it is for...If our definition of fundamental truth differs, then at least one of us has it wrong.

Don't bother asking. If you don't know, I'm not tellin'.

Coward.

I was asking for merely one of yours...how else might we decide whether one of us "has it wrong"? LOL.

 

[Highlander]

I was asking for merely one of yours...how else might we decide whether one of us "has it wrong"?

I'm not interested in proving "I'm right and you're wrong". I have confidence in my own abilities yet know my limitations. I also know what constitutes a fundamental truth when it passes me by. The previous time one did was Saturday, 4th August 2007 at approximately 10:30 in the morning. As fundamental truths go, they don't come much bigger.

And I'm definitely not telling you what that one was.

 

[majorloser]

The previous time one did was Saturday, 4th August 2007 at approximately 10:30 in the morning. As fundamental truths go, they don't come much bigger.

You really should eat more fiber if it's been that long

 

[Tomorrow]

I'm not interested in proving "I'm right and you're wrong". I have confidence in my own abilities yet know my limitations. I also know what constitutes a fundamental truth when it passes me by. The previous time one did was Saturday, 4th August 2007 at approximately 10:30 in the morning. As fundamental truths go, they don't come much bigger.

And I'm definitely not telling you what that one was.

Robbie,

You said there are fundamental truths. It's natural to ask for one, no?

You said we either agree or one of us is wrong. (I'm not interested in "proving" right or wrong.) Proof nor elaboration were requested. Just naming one would be sufficient.

Inquiring minds would like to know what you consider at least one fundamental truth that you aver exists. (Could majorloser be right?!! )

 

[musicgioni]

musicgioni, there's nothing wrong with having diverse musical taste. It's not often, if at all, that I encounter a man (I assume you are) who listens to Barbra Streisand. It was just a reaction, you know, like when you see something for the first time ever...

Members, correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't different circuit design of amp make audible difference even if they are both same type and competently designed? For example, class A solid state amp would sound different from class AB, B or C solid state amp even when level matched, wouldn't they? I'm asking because I never had the luxury of testing them side by side.

Howdy HI-Fi Ve! Darn man you are about to mark me as a queer or something buddy! Nevertheless I am married to a lady that seems to love music as much as I do. Her tastes are slightly different than mine but we do spend a long of time together listening to music and Barbra is one of her favorite signers. I am more biased towards classic jazz, classic and progresive rock, some hard rock (deep purple, uriah heap etc.) electronic (YES I love electronic music...) and ethnic. I travel a lot for my present career so I have the luck of finding new sounds in different parts of the world.

Regarding your comment about different class amps sounding different I tell you this: My Plinius SA-250 was an A/AB desing but different than most other amps in that you could make it operate in pure class A at full power if you wanted to at the pess of a button. Mine was the version "IV" (the latest one before they discontinued this model) and although the differences were small, when I would switch to pure class A they were there. Some of my friends (including a music composer) seemed to prefer the amp mainly when operated in pure class A. I could definety listen an improvement to the sound especially with chamber and minimalist type of music but could not justify the extra electrical cost and the heat this monster generated. So I had it mostly on the class AB mode and only used the class A setting for " critical listening" (please do not attack me for this auydiophile anathema...).

In all I can tell you that although I appreciated the more liquid mids and smoother highs I could live w/o any class A w/o any problem at all.

Cheers

 

[Highlander]

You said there are fundamental truths. It's natural to ask for one, no?

It is. I knew I shouldn't have typed those two sentences when I did. Sorry for winding you up; it was never my intension.

If I wouldn't tell Adam why would I tell you? Wheedling wont work with me. No means no.

Once again, good night.

 

[Tomorrow]

It is. I knew I shouldn't have typed those two sentences when I did. Sorry for winding you up; it was never my intension.

If I wouldn't tell Adam why would I tell you? Wheedling wont work with me. No means no.

Once again, good night.

Hrumpphh.

Good night, Robbie.

(Hey Adam...nudge-nudge...shhh...let's talk about Robbie while he sleeps....heh heh. )

Edit: This is a most interesting thread. It's sort of a triple treat...pick your subject of off-topic interest. LOL. Hey...what is the topic, anyway?!

 

[Davemcc]

What constitutes fundamental truth isn't open to interpretation.

Isn't this a fundamental truth, in and of itself. It seems that you've given the boys what they're asking for all along, but they didn't recognize it.

I'll give you my fundamental truth and hope for comments on its validity.

"Sum ergo sum" (with apologies to Descartes).