Aperion Audio Verus Grand Loudspeaker System Reviewed

[DenPureSound]

It doesn't take much to overcome the lack of resolution, in the midrange
of the Klipsch speakers.
However, aim for the best that you can afford.
My gut feeling says, go for the Philharmonics. Dennis is even well known
in the DIY community.
Have you been to his website? He has modified some crossovers.
MurphyBlaster Productions

Yes I have been to both of DM's www sites.

I know quite a bit about the Phil 2 and 3's. They look very accurate, and am waiting on ADTG to get his and his review of them.

Are there any good reviews of the Phil 3's out there yet?

Will yield my update hopefully soon, but might have to change my Avatar again. Maybe, being in this thread is the first leak.

One thing about being an Audiophile are any of us ever Happy?

To me it is like a kid in the ice cream shop, more flavors/different sizes/different specs and measurements/different tastes, and certainly different prices.

 

[DenPureSound]

You sure do like this speaker. Good for you, though. Do you own them?

Not yet here... but we will see soon!

 

[alphaiii]

Due to the Vann's killer price on the V-5.1 - I almost bought.
However, I suspect that some former Klipsch engineers, have
voiced it, some-what north of neutral.

From the looks of things - the Verus Grand is a winner - the
proof will always be in the hearing.

I almost bought them too, despite having the RC-10's already.

HT Mag reviewed the V-5.1/V-5.2C and the reviewer felt they were unforgiving and could be a bit edgy at times. Measurements show they are a bit more lively in the upper treble, with a noticeable peak around 10kHz, compared to the RC series speakers HT Mag measured.

According to the Audioholics write-up of the V-6.3, Klipsch did apparently play the predominant role in design, using Energy's design principles and existing designs (ie. RC series) as a "template."

I did end up buying the V-5.2C to compare to the RC-LCR. I always felt the LCR made certain dialogue sound a little overly full and "bassy"... so I wanted to see if the V-5.2C improved on this.

My thoughts after about 10 days with the V-5.2C is that it is a little more controlled and resolving in the mids/lows... but also seems a little bit sharper in the highs... I seem to notice sibilance a bit more, although this is content dependent. With the right movie, it can sound about as natural as I've heard so far in a center. But some material just sounds a little harsh... so I'd say I agree with HT Mag that, with the V-5.2C at least, it's not a forgiving speaker.

 

[alphaiii]

Hi Jim,

Very tempting and I see why. Have you seen any plots on them?

I can't find any Verus Grand Towers used anywhere. I guess all that buy them hang onto them.

Cheers,
Den

Energy Veritas V-5.1 Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

 

[DenPureSound]

Aperion Verus Grand Towers - FR Plot On-Axis

Well, I did tell ADTG so here we go...

By this Weekend the Fed-X truck should show up with Two New Cherry Wood Finished Aperion Verus Grand Towers, in so that I can drag those "Shrilling" Klipsch Horns out of the room, and get some Great Mid-Range back.

But the proof will be in the "Pure Sound" per say... if it sounds as good as this looks they might find a new home here.

I only hope so I don't have to break my old back (and that is dam OLD) putting them back into their boxes.

and here is a little Impedance with Phase that most have not seen out there, just came in... looks great to me.
You can see the phase at 0 deg. where the VGT's cross over to the ASR Tweeter at 1.8kHz. and notice the saddle down at 35Hz.
Where those two Markers are you'll notice the phase is Close to Zero ... good thing for sure.

 

[cschang]

Looks good. Roll off after 10khz, so it won't have the "airiness" of speakers that extend beyond that. The HT Mag measurements show a rise after 10khz with a drop off after that (very different than what was supplied to you by Aperion). It would be interesting to see off-axis plots from both sources.

Phase and impedance looks good, but for the price, I am sure you have seen better.

Will you have any of the other speakers you have been considering there to compare as well?

 

[DenPureSound]

Looks good.

Will you have any of the other speakers you have been considering there to compare as well?

Yes, my $1000's of dollars of Klipsch's, unless you ship some to us, we would be glad to audition them and write up a critical review of them, if freight both ways is paid for.

 

[cschang]

Yes, my $1000's of dollars of Klipsch's, unless you ship some to us, we would be glad to audition them and write up a critical review of them, if freight both ways is paid for.

HA! Nothing I can do about that. Just curious as to how you will settle on these if you can't/won't compare to, or even bother to hear others on your list.

 

[alphaiii]

Looks good. Roll off after 10khz, so it won't have the "airiness" of speakers that extend beyond that. The HT Mag measurements show a rise after 10khz with a drop off after that (very different than what was supplied to you by Aperion). It would be interesting to see off-axis plots from both sources.

Phase and impedance looks good, but for the price, I am sure you have seen better.

Will you have any of the other speakers you have been considering there to compare as well?

This reminds me of something - I've noticed that HT Mag's measurements sometimes show upper treble peaks that do not show up in measurements from others. Anyone else ever notice this?

I know they measure with grills on, so perhaps that is why.

I recall from several Stereophile reviews that measurements with the grill on often causes a dip in the treble followed by an associated peak. In these cases, John Aktinson state this is a result of those particular frequencies filling in at the sides of the grill.

Granted, this will vary with the speaker.... but it's something I've seen on more than one occasion.

 

[alphaiii]

Here are some examples of how HT Mag's measurements differ from others, and in one case, from their own previous measurement....

Example 1 - Energy RC-70
1) HT Mag (purple curve)

2) Soundstage

3) Ultimate AV Mag

The HT Mag measures make it look like the RC-70 is really recessed in the low treble, then rises to a peak around 8kHz that is in line with the mid/lower part of the FR spectrum. Soundstage and Ultimate AV mag measures look much flatter in the treble region, with gradually rising response.

 

[alphaiii]

Example 2: Energy RC-LCR
1) HT Mag 2007 (green curve)

2) Ultimate AV Mag

And what I find interesting... HT Mag from 2006 - looks alot different from the 2007 review, yet its the same speaker:
http://www.energy-speakers.com/media/products/reviews-pdf/reference-connoisseur-rc-lcr-home-theater-june-2006.pdf

And check out that RC-10 measurement in that PDF, then compare to this:
Soundstage

Much like the RC-70, the HT Mag plots make it look like a very recessed speaker in the lower treble, with that 10kHz peak that is in line with the mids/upper bass.... but they look pretty dang flat in the Soundstage plots, save for the elevated low mids/upper bass.

 

[alphaiii]

Sorry to get so far off topic and onto an Energy tangent, but these are measurements I'm really familiar with, and just examples to support the observation I mentioned regarding the inconsistencies of HT Mag's measurements.

I'm just wondering if these differences are entirely attributable to the grills being on for their measurements... or some fundamental differences in how they measure speakers. Judging from the curves, HT Mag does apply alot more smoothing.


In any case, back on topic - the Soundstage measurements of the Verus Grand Bookshelf do show elevated treble (on axis) in the 10-15kHz range, similar to what is seen in HT Mag's plots.
Soundstage

HT Mag (red curve)

 

[DenPureSound]

Actually, it has a little db Boost from 10k-15kHz. or so, but the ASR Tweeter kicks in around 1.8kHz. to get off of the Kevlar dual 5" mid-range drivers.

Do we really care if their is a boost above the 10kHz. range? In other words, I can not hear that ... but maybe most can like my other half.

What do you think?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Actually, it has a little db Boost from 10k-15kHz. or so, but the ASR Tweeter kicks in around 1.8kHz. to get off of the Kevlar dual 5" mid-range drivers.

And of course anything above 10kHz is relatively insignificant. It's the critical 200Hz - 10kHz that we care most about.

 

[DenPureSound]

And of course anything above 10kHz is relatively insignificant. It's the critical 200Hz - 10kHz that we care most about.

Yes indeed, in fact my hearing is so bad last time I checked I barely made it up to 8kHz.

As we get older we lose the higher freqs. and women at the same age can hear up higher than us old male folks -- that is why I let my better half tell me what is wrong w/ the speakers!

 

[DenPureSound]

Alphaiii --

I did not notice that SoundStage had run the plots on the Verus Grand Towers, only the bookshelves.

What is the URL for Soundstages Measurements on the VGT's?

BTW -- the previous FR and Imp/Ph. plots are from Aperion and as you can see are at 92dB the speakers sensitivity rating.

Why aren't the Soundstage measured at 92dB for their Reference?

I do know the HT Mag plot is NOT the red curve, but the PURPLE curve for the Verus Grand Towers.

The Red curve is for their bookshelf.

I wonder if both were measured with the Grill ON, or off and at 1 meter on tweeter axis at 1 Watt (2.83V)?

Thanks,
Den

 

[cschang]

And of course anything above 10kHz is relatively insignificant. It's the critical 200Hz - 10kHz that we care most about.

Speak with audiologists, and they will tell you that even though you may not be able to "hear", it can be perceived. It certainly is one of the reasons why some tweeters are said to be more "airy" than others.

 

[cschang]

Alphaiii --

I did not notice that SoundStage had run the plots on the Verus Grand Towers, only the bookshelves.

What is the URL for Soundstages Measurements on the VGT's?

BTW -- the previous FR and Imp/Ph. plots are from Aperion and as you can see are at 92dB the speakers sensitivity rating.

Why aren't the Soundstage measured at 92dB for their Reference?

I do know the HT Mag plot is NOT the red curve, but the PURPLE curve for the Verus Grand Towers.

The Red curve is for their bookshelf.

I wonder if both were measured with the Grill ON, or off and at 1 meter on tweeter axis at 1 Watt (2.83V)?

Thanks,
Den

The Soundstage measurements are for the bookshelf, the sensitivity rating is much lower. I believe Soundstage measures with the grille off.

For HT, the related text says they measure with the grilles off, and at a distance of 1 meter with a 2.83-volt input.

 

[cschang]

Yes indeed, in fact my hearing is so bad last time I checked I barely made it up to 8kHz.

As we get older we lose the higher freqs. and women at the same age can hear up higher than us old male folks -- that is why I let my better half tell me what is wrong w/ the speakers!

Really?? It would be interesting to test yourself with various speakers and listening materials to see how that corresponds.

Yes...for whatever reason, female hearing deteriorates at a lower rate. Maybe because they yell at us more.

 

[alphaiii]

Alphaiii --

I did not notice that SoundStage had run the plots on the Verus Grand Towers, only the bookshelves.

What is the URL for Soundstages Measurements on the VGT's?

BTW -- the previous FR and Imp/Ph. plots are from Aperion and as you can see are at 92dB the speakers sensitivity rating.

Why aren't the Soundstage measured at 92dB for their Reference?

I do know the HT Mag plot is NOT the red curve, but the PURPLE curve for the Verus Grand Towers.

The Red curve is for their bookshelf.

I wonder if both were measured with the Grill ON, or off and at 1 meter on tweeter axis at 1 Watt (2.83V)?

Thanks,
Den

My post is comparing the Soundstage vs HT Mag measurements of the Verus Grand Bookshelf.... nothing to do with the towers... which is why I specified looking at the red curve.

Soundstage measures in the NRC's anechoic chamber with grills off at 2m, then plots at 1m. HT Mag measures are quasi-anechoic with grills on at 1m. Both measure with 2.83V input.