Another fine example that embodies everything that's wrong with this country

[unreal.freak]

This isn't about how I "feel" about anything. It's about what the law is.

I already said I sympathize with the guy. You don't need to lecture me on what it's like, and you don't need to insult and attack me. All I'm doing is trying to look at what the law actually is and how it applies, not what it should be or whether what anyone did was "right" or not.

I'm not your enemy here. I'm not passing moral judgments. I'm just looking at what the law is.

If you feel insulted or attacked, please forgive me. It wasnt my intention. My point is that people who are ok with such laws shouldnt be. In fact we should be questioning such laws that take away the rights of the law abiding citizen who has had his rights infringed on. Its almost like the laws are put there to hog tie anyone who has the courage to stand up for their personal property or their own well being. When the criminals rights are put ahead of that, well just look at how far this country has went down hill. We have people in California wanting to turn out criminals due to over crowding. They say it is inhumane to keep so many in such small prisions....Pft! I say lets execute the ones that have already been sentenced to die and it wouldnt be so over crowded. Again, if ive insulted you, please forgive me.

 

[gmichael]

If someone unknown to me walks across my lawn, and I shoot them in the face without provocation, you would undoubtedly support my arrest and incarceration.

I could claim that you are "protecting the criminals."

That is, of course, ludicrous.

I am not "protecting criminals," even though criminals need the same protection as everyone else. I would not allow a "criminal" to be murdered in the street, nor would I allow a "criminal" to get mugged or his house set on fire.

My only claim here is that the actions of the rancher were illegal.

The laws making actions criminal do not change if the victim is a "criminal." Criminals are not animals or bugs, they cannot simply be abused or killed. Criminals do indeed have rights.

I didn't say anything about killing anyone (like a bug or not). I would very much appreciate it if you would stop trying to put your words in my mouth.
There is a huge difference in just walking through someone's lawn, and causing damage to that lawn. There is also a difference between a few kids playing football, and illegals sneaking into another country. (not for nothing, but if I were to try to sneak into another country illegally, I would expect that someone pointing a gun at me would be a very real possibility) There is even more difference between detaining someone until the authorities arrive, and shooting them. They were not injured, just detained. Were they threatened? Prove it.
Please stop trying to make the criminals look like the victims. It's this kind of thinking that is empowering the criminals.
All this lawsuit is about, is getting them to stay in the country.

 

[Rickster71]

Hello all,
Does anyone else here see the obvious media bias and political motivation of this story?

Why is this getting national attention now? He's been doing this for eleven years!
"Mr. Barnett acknowledged that he had turned over 12,000 illegal immigrants to the Border Patrol since 1998."

12,000 Illegal, turned over, in 12 years, and this was his first lawsuit. He has a better 'human rights' track record than the police.

Isn't it sad that Mr. Barnett gets scapegoated nationally, while an ineffective government has let this go on for 12 years.
All the while, we taxpayers pay more and get less.

 

[markw]

Partially correct.

All this lawsuit is about, is getting them to stay in the country.

It's also about using our legal system to set themselves up for life with enough money to live like royalty.

wotta country.

Actually, I'm not too sure if everyone would have been better off had they simply "disappeared". After all, what kind of example does this lawsuit set?

 

[jonnythan]

Were they threatened? Prove it.

I don't know what happened. That's what the court case is for.

Please stop trying to make the criminals look like the victims. It's this kind of thinking that is empowering the criminals.
All this lawsuit is about, is getting them to stay in the country.

Criminals can be victims. If I see someone key my car, and I break his kneecaps, he is a victim, as am I. I will go to jail for it.

Just becoming a "criminal" does not mean that you no longer have the right to life, the right to be treated fairly, etc.

 

[Tarub]

I'll kill em' all.

 

[gmichael]

I don't know what happened. That's what the court case is for.



Criminals can be victims. If I see someone key my car, and I break his kneecaps, he is a victim, as am I. I will go to jail for it.

Just becoming a "criminal" does not mean that you no longer have the right to life, the right to be treated fairly, etc.

Nobody broke any kneecaps. They were just detained. If he did injure them, I would agree with you. But he didn't, and you keep acting like he did.
They broke the law and were told to stay where they were till the authorities showed up. Their right to life was not infringed on. They were treated very fairly.
Becoming a criminal may not take away your rights, but it also does not entitle you to any extra rights. Treating them like the victims in this case is ludicrous.

 

[jonnythan]

I'm not acting like he injured anyone. I'm simply saying that, if the claims are true, he appears to have acted in an illegal manner. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not saying his alleged actions were wrong. Just that they may have been illegal.

You don't know what happened either. There's a big difference between being told "stay where you are until the authorities show up" and "I'll shoot you if you run, and my dog is hungry for buttocks."

Neither of us know what really happened. Presumably we can both agree that there is a line that one must not cross when detaining a lawbreaker, and past that line you become a kidnapper, imprisoner, torturer, or murderer. Clearly you cannot simply execute anyone you find on your large ranch, I'm sure we can both agree on that.

The illegal immigrants obviously don't have extra rights versus an American citizen. If the rancher broke the law, he broke the law whether the tresspassers were from Mexico or Wisconsin.

 

[gmichael]

I'm not acting like he injured anyone. I'm simply saying that, if the claims are true, he appears to have acted in an illegal manner. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not saying his alleged actions were wrong. Just that they may have been illegal.

You don't know what happened either. There's a big difference between being told "stay where you are until the authorities show up" and "I'll shoot you if you run, and my dog is hungry for buttocks."

Neither of us know what really happened. Presumably we can both agree that there is a line that one must not cross when detaining a lawbreaker, and past that line you become a kidnapper, imprisoner, torturer, or murderer. Clearly you cannot simply execute anyone you find on your large ranch, I'm sure we can both agree on that.

The illegal immigrants obviously don't have extra rights versus an American citizen. If the rancher broke the law, he broke the law whether the tresspassers were from Mexico or Wisconsin.

You have brought up the words killing and injuring many times, even this post. How can yo say that you didn't not imply that?
So you want me to agree that kidnapping, imprisoning, torture and murder are wong? They sure are, but that doesn't seem to apply here. Not sure what you are trying to do other than to justify your stance with things that have nothing in common with what happened.

 

[jonnythan]

I brought up the word killing several times in an effort to illustrate a point.

People have said things like "criminals don't have rights." Well, that means criminals don't have the right to life and criminals can simply be executed on the spot. However, they obviously do have the right to life so criminals do have rights.

I'm not saying the rancher killed anyone. I'm making the point that criminals do have some rights, and those rights can be violated regardless of whether they're criminals or not.

 

[gmichael]

I brought up the word killing several times in an effort to illustrate a point.

People have said things like "criminals don't have rights." Well, that means criminals don't have the right to life and criminals can simply be executed on the spot. However, they obviously do have the right to life so criminals do have rights.

I'm not saying the rancher killed anyone. I'm making the point that criminals do have some rights, and those rights can be violated regardless of whether they're criminals or not.

I have never once said that they don't have rights. Only that they should not be treated like the victims for being detained.

 

[jonnythan]

I have never once said that they don't have rights. Only that they should not be treated like the victims for being detained.

Not all of my comments in this thread have been directed towards you.

 

[gmichael]

Not all of my comments in this thread have been directed towards you.

I am only commenting on the ones where you have quoted me. It made sense to me that they were in response to my posts.

 

[Tarub]

I'll have my cowgirl Jessica shoot em'.

 

[rush29]

The affects of illegal immigration are so far reaching it's unbelievable.

One example - I am on the fund raising committee for a group home in our county that houses mentally-ill adults. These people are of very limited means and without this house would have no where to go but the streets.

About 8 months ago it was discovered that the house is infested with bed bugs. It's been a nightmare trying to get rid of these pests. Over $100K has been spent so far and they still haven't solved the problem. They've had to destroy all the bedding, wood furniture, and clothing.

Three major exterminator chains have had reps in to evaluate and make recommendations. All three have stated the same thing; at one time the bed bug was essentially eradicated from the US, but with the huge influx of illegal immigrants from third world countries, it has been brought back with a vengence. And these pesky critters are almost impossible to get rid of.

So when I hear a story like the one about this guy in AZ who is trying to do the right thing, it makes my stomach churn.

 

[pzaur]

Current update on that lawsuit

Verdict today.

-pat

 

[Rickster71]

The jury did find him liable on four claims of assault and four claims of infliction of emotional distress and ordered Barnett to pay $77,804 in damages.

What a great system!
Legal tax paying Americans are out of work, and our corrupt legal system made a new Mexican Millionaire! (This would make a great game show.)
77,804.00 U.S.Dollar = 1,139,832.70 MXN

I just hope the bed bugs follow the money back home too.

 

[jonnythan]

Indeed, it is a great system. I'm happy that the system was able to hold the man accountable for his illegal actions despite the fact that the victims were "unsavory."

 

[Rickster71]

The legal system successfully 'fiddled' while Rome burned.

Out of that Bonanza money, the rancher should be reimbursed for his damages;
the break-in and robbery of his home, and his families emotional distress.

 

[Matt34]

Only in this country can you commit a felony (federal tresspassing) and make money off it. $77,000 for a he said/she said testimony....amazing.