a Democrat Texan wants more gun control...........

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Re "it shoots better than I do", the Army Squad Designated Marksman Course begins with this: The bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. Some folks question that statement; yet, being fact, it means to hit the target the shooter must know where the rifle barrel is pointed. This is achieved by properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment. It's pretty simple stuff, if the shooter is not hitting where aimed either the shooter has not properly aligned the sights , or aim has been disturbed while pulling the trigger; yet, novice shooters, as you alluded to, will place blame on the rifle, or its sights being broken. BTW, you obviously know how to shoot. Were you formally trained, or self taught? In my case, I gleaned instruction from books and pamphlets on marksmanship. I thought I knew it all but I actually knew nothing. It was not until I began assisting the USAMU deliver the SDM Course that I connected instruction with actions to improve my performance.
I originally said "It shoots better than I do" as a joke. I have mentioned before that at one trip to the range, one guy went through a whole magazine in a pistol and only nicked the bottom edge of the paper target one time- must have been 20" x 30" and was the same kind I was using. That guy was a walking unintentional shooting, waiting to happen.

No formal education- went hunting with an uncle when I was a kid and went out a couple of days before with a cousin and her boyfriend in rural Kansas, to see if I could hit something, anything, with her .410 shotgun. I'd received a BB gun a couple of years before and have always been able to hit the center, so the shotgun was pretty similar. Now that the internet has so much instruction, it's easy to download a shooting analysis target that shows the reasons for errant hits, so I take that to the range for reference when I go. I also draw small circles on my targets because a giant outline of a human is OK, but.....

My thinking when I hear people say that they like one gun or another and hate something else- it's not a matter of 'like', it's a matter of being able to become proficient with them, regardless of maker, model, caliber. My purchase was based on how it fits my big ol' mit, not because it's popular, cool, badass, etc. Similar to people who fish, saying "I like this color of lure, pattern, etc"- it's not about what they like, it's about what the fish like. I'm pretty sure the small bubbles I have seen coming to the surface were from the fish laughing at the lures.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
love it when guys talk 'accuracy', years ago I shot 100yd bench rest (6PPC), imagine 5 shots within your pinky fingernail and not win the match !
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
OK, who wants to say the problem is caused by legal gun owners and that criminals will be affected?


From the article-

"The court ordered Brown and Hill-Brown not to have contact with each other, Red Lobster, the victims or witnesses. They are also not to possess dangerous weapons or firearms."

Yeah, that ought to work....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
love it when guys talk 'accuracy', years ago I shot 100yd bench rest (6PPC), imagine 5 shots within your pinky fingernail and not win the match !
Maybe you should have poked a round hole in the target instead of an oval. :)
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I originally said "It shoots better than I do" as a joke. I have mentioned before that at one trip to the range, one guy went through a whole magazine in a pistol and only nicked the bottom edge of the paper target one time- must have been 20" x 30" and was the same kind I was using. That guy was a walking unintentional shooting, waiting to happen.

No formal education- went hunting with an uncle when I was a kid and went out a couple of days before with a cousin and her boyfriend in rural Kansas, to see if I could hit something, anything, with her .410 shotgun. I'd received a BB gun a couple of years before and have always been able to hit the center, so the shotgun was pretty similar. Now that the internet has so much instruction, it's easy to download a shooting analysis target that shows the reasons for errant hits, so I take that to the range for reference when I go. I also draw small circles on my targets because a giant outline of a human is OK, but.....

My thinking when I hear people say that they like one gun or another and hate something else- it's not a matter of 'like', it's a matter of being able to become proficient with them, regardless of maker, model, caliber. My purchase was based on how it fits my big ol' mit, not because it's popular, cool, badass, etc. Similar to people who fish, saying "I like this color of lure, pattern, etc"- it's not about what they like, it's about what the fish like. I'm pretty sure the small bubbles I have seen coming to the surface were from the fish laughing at the lures.
Here's something on shooter/target analysis that I take to the range to help me with my AR:
Shooter/Target Analysis
Analysis is essentially attempting to determine the cause of misplaced shots. Different sizes and shapes of shot groups can occur because of a multitude of problems/errors, making it difficult to discern all the possible causes for misplaced shots in some instances; yet, since all shooter errors originate from position/act of firing inconsistency, and incorrect compensation for effects on trajectory, not hitting where aimed can be quickly resolved without troubleshooting by simply attending to what’s important to good shooting, (i.e. sight alignment and trigger control). Still, correctly analyzing the cause of shot misplacement can hasten error correction.

Without the aid of a coach to observe and question the shooter about how the shot looked, the shooter has two methods of analysis, call/strike corollary, and group assessment. Each of these methods can be expedited with a spotting scope.

Call/strike corollary which shows shots are on call and where desired indicates proper sight adjustment for distance/conditions and proper execution of the two firing tasks. Shots on call but not where desired indicates proper sight alignment, and sight adjustment but movement of the rifle, possibly from poor trigger control. Shots off call, the bullet striking someplace other than where it was thought to hit, may mean sights are misaligned, inconsistent sight picture, or sights not adjusted correctly to account for distance to target, slope, or wind and weather conditions.

Vertical group assessment shows good trigger control and poor elevation. Some of the probable causes of vertical grouping are:

  • Poor follow through
  • Changing sight picture
  • A very low position
  • Changing sight alignment
  • Failure to maintain proper sight alignment
  • Changing distance from eye to front sight
  • Varying rifle butt position in shoulder
  • Position of left elbow wrong (rifle fired from right shoulder)
  • Not enough head pressure


Horizontal group assessment shows good elevation and poor trigger control. Some of the probable causes of horizontal grouping are:

  • High right shoulder
  • High vertical position
  • Jerking the trigger
  • Varying head pressure
  • Movement of the right elbow
  • No stability of position
  • Change in sight picture
  • Failure to maintain proper sight alignment


Initially, an expert coach should be solicited to observe the shooter’s position. This is because a correct position will be at first unnatural; and therefore, the shooter will not understand when he has built the position properly. The coach can correct visible errors; better assuring the shooter is developing muscle memory for a correct position from the start.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
love it when guys talk 'accuracy', years ago I shot 100yd bench rest (6PPC), imagine 5 shots within your pinky fingernail and not win the match !
I feel your pain. There's a reason I'm called Sterling Shooter, a lot of second place silver awards but few gold trophies. I did earn my US Distinguished Rifleman Badge before I came down with glaucoma though and so thankful for that, since now, not even able to see my front sight, I doubt I could get that Badge.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
I bought my first pistol, a Glock 45, just a couple of weeks ago. I grew up around, and have shot plenty of different firearms but never owned a pistol before.

And yes, to be honest I got it right after Biden officially won the election thinking if I'm ever gonna to get one I'd better do it now while we still can.
I've read that left-leaning voters started to buy weapons during the Trump administration to prepare themselves and feel safer. At least they feel safer.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Ah yes, let's try to debate the people that effectively banned government scientists from researching gun violence and it's impact on public health. Let's be honest; the left doesn't understand guns enough to make meaningful proposals, and the right is so entrenched in regressive gun policy that GOP politicians can't even support universal background checks that have 90+% approval throughout America. It's impossible to compromise when one party is incapable of changing their minds no matter what.

I'm a liberal gun owner and I couldn't be more excited for the potential increase in gun regulations in the coming decade. I hope it becomes vastly more difficult to buy a firearm soon. The longer the right resists all new regulations, the more extreme the push back will be as they lose power. Good.
I have a big problem with this post above and the one below. Number one, I just don’t see how any liberal could be happy to own a gun just because it goes against too much of the liberal agenda and second, how are you liberals who own guns and understand the purpose of guns, they’re leaning and somewhat understand what the Second Amendment means and why we have it, can still be so much for all these gun regulations when you guys alone who owned guns and are liberal should be smarter than the other liberals that think guns are the problem and blah blah blah, that no gun law is going to do exactly what you want it to do.

Who gives a rats ass about background checks because when a known criminal knows he’s a criminal, do you really think he’s going to be stupid enough to try and buy a gun the legal way when he knows he won’t pass a background check? So many illegal guns are brought into this country and there’s even people making their own guns; they’re not gonna do a background check every time they sell or buy a gun off of somebody so all that background check does just limit the wrong people and so the truck what if some person 20 years ago who had a felony and did their time and paid their dues but still can’t legally buy a gun because that felony is still on their record Yeah tons of illegal guns are bought and sold on the street every day.


I am. Always have been. When people I know hear me say that they don't stop and think what "gun control laws" even mean to me.

I usually ask them "have you done anything that would prevent you from buying a gun if there were more strict restrictions in place?" "No." "Then why does it bother you?"
To answer your question, no, I haven’t done anything for a background check to limit me from purchasing a firearm but why does it still bother me, you ask?

It bothers me because all these criminals every day who buy and steal guns and sell them illegally they’re not doing no background check so why is it being pushed when so many criminals are not going to try to buy a gun legally in the first place? Why should I, and so many other people like me who are law abiding citizens have to go through so many hoops just to exercise our Second Amendment rights without any infringing background check or anything else like that?

All these gun laws are good for is restricting the people who follow laws. I do nothing until after the fact for your average criminal.

Now, the 30 round magazine thing came up and that’s one I don’t get. You don’t need 30 rounds available to do anything outside of something bad, or screwing around. No way hunting will need more than 5 at a time. Plus, it makes the gun more cumbersome. I don’t know anyone that uses them for hunting. They all say they want them “just in case”. Sure. Ok.
Lol, until that day actually does come up where you’ll need those 30 round magazines, you’re right, 30 round magazines aren’t necessarily needed but we have all sorts of stuff that we don’t need but we have anyways so you’re gonna have to come up with a much better argument against 30 round magazines than that.

Come on man, even the people who do hunt with an AR-15, do you really think they’re going to be out there with a 30 round magazine when they do make smaller capacity magazines for AR‘s? Come on.

But out of all the folks I know who all have 30 round magazines for their AR’s, I have never heard one of them say that oh, I’m gonna have to get a smaller magazine because this big ole 30 round banana clip makes my gun too heavy… ROFL.

I just want stricter background checks and for them to keep track of who’s buying what. They probably already know if they use the FBI background check, but maybe they don’t keep a national record. They should.

I also don’t think you should be able to go to a gun show and not have to have a background check to purchase. IIRC this is only from individuals in Texas, but that's going to vary from state to state. I know that legally anyone can sell anyone a gun, but that should have some regulation behind it. I know you have to have it registered to the new party, but I'm not sure how that's enforced currently.
Again, why? Criminals buy, sell and steal illegally all the time. If you limit gun shows, that’ll just be one less place they won’t go to buy a gun.

None of those things should hurt 99.9% of current gun owners. Most of those just follow the law and mind their business. It's always the few morons that ruin everything for everyone else.
You’re right, they don’t for most part for most people but it’s still the fact that it’s an infringement that doesn’t even do anything for the people contributing to this “gun” violence. And yes, you are right, there are morons who ruin poop for everyone but hey, there’s always gonna be morons no matter what and they will weed themselves out.


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panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I have a big problem with this post above and the one below. Number one, I just don’t see how any liberal could be happy to own a gun just because it goes against too much of the liberal agenda and second, how are you liberals who own guns and understand the purpose of guns, they’re leaning and somewhat understand what the Second Amendment means and why we have it, can still be so much for all these gun regulations when you guys alone who owned guns and are liberal should be smarter than the other liberals that think guns are the problem and blah blah blah, that no gun law is going to do exactly what you want it to do.

Who gives a rats ass about background checks because when a known criminal knows he’s a criminal, do you really think he’s going to be stupid enough to try and buy a gun the legal way when he knows he won’t pass a background check? So many illegal guns are brought into this country and there’s even people making their own guns; they’re not gonna do a background check every time they sell or buy a gun off of somebody so all that background check does just limit the wrong people and so the truck what if some person 20 years ago who had a felony and did their time and paid their dues but still can’t legally buy a gun because that felony is still on their record Yeah tons of illegal guns are bought and sold on the street every day.




To answer your question, no, I haven’t done anything for a background check to limit me from purchasing a firearm but why does it still bother me, you ask?

It bothers me because all these criminals every day who buy and steal guns and sell them illegally they’re not doing no background check so why is it being pushed when so many criminals are not going to try to buy a gun legally in the first place? Why should I, and so many other people like me who are law abiding citizens have to go through so many hoops just to exercise our Second Amendment rights without any infringing background check or anything else like that?

All these gun laws are good for is restricting the people who follow laws. I do nothing until after the fact for your average criminal.


Lol, until that day actually does come up where you’ll need those 30 round magazines, you’re right, 30 round magazines aren’t necessarily needed but we have all sorts of stuff that we don’t need but we have anyways so you’re gonna have to come up with a much better argument against 30 round magazines than that.

Come on man, even the people who do hunt with an AR-15, do you really think they’re going to be out there with a 30 round magazine when they do make smaller capacity magazines for AR‘s? Come on.

But out of all the folks I know who all have 30 round magazines for their AR’s, I have never heard one of them say that oh, I’m gonna have to get a smaller magazine because this big ole 30 round banana clip makes my gun too heavy… ROFL.



Again, why? Criminals buy, sell and steal illegally all the time. If you limit gun shows, that’ll just be one less place they won’t go to buy a gun.


You’re right, they don’t for most part for most people but it’s still the fact that it’s an infringement that doesn’t even do anything for the people contributing to this “gun” violence. And yes, you are right, there are morons who ruin poop for everyone but hey, there’s always gonna be morons no matter what and they will weed themselves out.


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Why are you assuming everyone that commits a crime with a gun is already a criminal?

You really think people with criminal records don't buy guns legally? Of course they do. Where I'm from if you sell to a family member, you don't even have to disclose the sale. Perfectly legal, and nobody is ever going to check up on it unless a crime is committed.

Not only that example, but you have a vastly more positive view of how smart the general population is. Of course people with records try to buy guns. They do it all the time. People are dumb, and no matter how dumb you think most people are, they are probably even dumber than you think.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Why are you assuming everyone that commits a crime with a gun is already a criminal?

You really think people with criminal records don't buy guns legally? Of course they do. Where I'm from if you sell to a family member, you don't even have to disclose the sale. Perfectly legal, and nobody is ever going to check up on it unless a crime is committed.

Not only that example, but you have a vastly more positive view of how smart the general population is. Of course people with records try to buy guns. They do it all the time. People are dumb, and no matter how dumb you think most people are, they are probably even dumber than you think.
I never said anything about somebody committing a crime with a gun has to already be a criminal and if there was anything I said that led you to believe that’s what I was saying then I apologize in advance because again, I never said that, which is a really good point to bring up because what good is a background check if somebody is not a criminal when they go buy a gun legally and then afterwards, they decide to become a criminal? Just like with the guy who shot up the grocery store up in Colorado… He wasn’t a criminal that’s why he was able to buy those guns legally the way he did. The Vegas shooter at the Jason Andean concert…. And the same goes for the guy that shot up the church in Texas who should’ve had his criminal offense added to his record from the Air Force that failed to get it put on there and yes, I know that there’s people out there that will still try to buy guns legally when they know they can’t but not all of them are that stupid.

And yes, I know that in some places private gun sales are private gun sales and even though it’s pretty much just how one wishes to look at it whether or not if an actual crime was committed when somebody sells a gun to somebody with a criminal background but the point still remains, many gun sales happen every day where people who shouldn’t have guns still end up having guns and a background check wasn’t able to do nothing because people don’t follow the law and the background check is useless when only law abiding citizens buy guns the legal way.


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diskreet

diskreet

Audioholic
I have a big problem with this post above and the one below. Number one, I just don’t see how any liberal could be happy to own a gun just because it goes against too much of the liberal agenda and second, how are you liberals who own guns and understand the purpose of guns, they’re leaning and somewhat understand what the Second Amendment means and why we have it, can still be so much for all these gun regulations when you guys alone who owned guns and are liberal should be smarter than the other liberals that think guns are the problem and blah blah blah, that no gun law is going to do exactly what you want it to do.
Liberals aren't one cohesive group that all falls in line with what the party leadership says. There's a diversity of thought and opinion that doesn't seem to exist as much on the right. Some liberals want to ban all guns, and some are gun enthusiasts. That's good, it facilitates growth and debate when people operate in good faith. I love talking to anti-gun people because I know I can help them better understand my perspective, and also find a dozen gun control and social policies we would strongly agree on.

Just because liberals don't tend to make guns a part of their identity, or shove them in other people's faces, doesn't mean that liberals are unarmed cowards. Ideally my kids won't even know I have any until they are old enough to learn the proper safety that many adult gun owners fail to learn.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Liberals aren't one cohesive group that all falls in line with what the party leadership says. There's a diversity of thought and opinion that doesn't seem to exist as much on the right. Some liberals want to ban all guns, and some are gun enthusiasts. That's good, it facilitates growth and debate when people operate in good faith. I love talking to anti-gun people because I know I can help them better understand my perspective, and also find a dozen gun control and social policies we would strongly agree on.

Just because liberals don't tend to make guns a part of their identity, or shove them in other people's faces, doesn't mean that liberals are unarmed cowards. Ideally my kids won't even know I have any until they are old enough to learn the proper safety that many adult gun owners fail to learn.
I understand and respect everything you just said but that part up there that I highlighted in bold, that’s the one thing about every liberal gun owner that I’ve seen that they all have in common is the fact that they’re OK with some gun control and I just don’t see how any gun owner, liberal or not could agree to any kind of control like that when common sense says that gun control doesn’t work, and at the same time be completely for our Second Amendment rights.

I mean, if it works then California, New York and Chicago would be some of the safest places to be because they’re the ones who have pretty much the strictest gun control laws and gun restrictions in the country.

Although I did vote for Trump and I’m still completely and utterly disgusted for who we have in the White House now and who was in there before him, I’m not so sure I’m a true conservative but I most certainly am not a liberal because even though I feel that some cases of abortion should be allowed and even though the other cases of abortion where two people just don’t want to use protection at all, get pregnant and then have that abortion anyway, I still think it ought to be the people’s choice. Anti-abortionists just need to stay out of other people’s business and worry about themselves but I’m all about my gun rights, secure borders and less government.

People need to understand that there will always be bad people in this world that are going to do bad things no matter what laws or no matter what restrictions you pass. Restricting guns and restricting gun rights only makes it easier for those bad people to do their things. If guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns is pretty much what it all boils down to.

My guns and my gun rights are not in everybody’s face just like how that’s the agenda for the lesbian and gay crowd to push their rights into everybody’s faces today.

But I’m just curious, how old do your kids have to be before you’ll start teaching them gun saftey and that you’ve had guns all this time? And yes, I completely understand what you said and that last part because there’s no excuse for kids taking their parents guns to school or even picking up their parents guns because if these kids were taught properly, they would already know at a young age that these guns are not toys and they’re not to be messed with but if you still are one of those parents that has one of those kids that you don’t think you can trust, you don’t have to spend upwards of three or four or $5000 on a gun safe just to keep those little curious hands off your guns when you just go to Walmart, spend maybe 100 bucks on a personal gun safe that has about enough room to hold one hand gun that you can literally bolt to your headboard or your nightstand that you can keep a loaded pistol in but not have to worry about your kids having access to it and have an accident but unfortunately, there are stupid people out there and it sucks that because of their stupidity that her kids are probably going to be the ones to be the victim to it but gun restrictions and gun laws it’s not gonna stop that so making everybody suffer who’s not that stupid is not the way to go.

I was raised around guns. So was a lot of people in my family and a lot of my friends who have kids were raised around them also but they were properly taught to where nobody that I know or not nobody that I am family to has had that kind of an issue but like I said since there’s still stupid people out there, you can’t hold every gun owner responsible for the stupidity that other people make.


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diskreet

diskreet

Audioholic
First off, I want to say thanks for the thought out reply. I appreciate this being a civil conversation. I want to hit on the specific point you have here:
I just don’t see how any gun owner, liberal or not could agree to any kind of control like that when common sense says that gun control doesn’t work, and at the same time be completely for our Second Amendment rights.
I don't understand how anyone could be against any gun control changes. Our laws are terrible and things like universal background checks are a no brainer. Same with closing the gun show loophole. Gun control doesn't work well in the US because we haven't every actually tried. We did what we always do, half-ass 50 different sets of rules that don't work effectively together.

To take it to the highest level I think we'd both agree on this based on your abortion comment; I don't care what people do so long as they aren't hurting others. That to me is what I think of as freedom. If we agree on that then we really just could disagree on the threshold of when the damage to society is too great vs. individual freedoms. If it was our jobs, and we honestly approached it that way, I would be surprised if we didn't find changes we'd both agree to that could make us safer without harming responsible gun owners. I am fine with many gun owners having them. Most of us keep them secured, in safe working conditions, and know how to safely handle them. When my kids (2 and 4 years old now) are mature enough, they will learn all of that, too. I just think that there's plenty of changes we can make to make them safer.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Gents, I'm not so sure about the 'terrible laws' but I have witnessed the terrible enforcement of said laws currently on the books.
 
nbk13nw

nbk13nw

Full Audioholic
First off, I want to say thanks for the thought out reply. I appreciate this being a civil conversation. I want to hit on the specific point you have here:


I don't understand how anyone could be against any gun control changes. Our laws are terrible and things like universal background checks are a no brainer. Same with closing the gun show loophole. Gun control doesn't work well in the US because we haven't every actually tried. We did what we always do, half-ass 50 different sets of rules that don't work effectively together.

To take it to the highest level I think we'd both agree on this based on your abortion comment; I don't care what people do so long as they aren't hurting others. That to me is what I think of as freedom. If we agree on that then we really just could disagree on the threshold of when the damage to society is too great vs. individual freedoms. If it was our jobs, and we honestly approached it that way, I would be surprised if we didn't find changes we'd both agree to that could make us safer without harming responsible gun owners. I am fine with many gun owners having them. Most of us keep them secured, in safe working conditions, and know how to safely handle them. When my kids (2 and 4 years old now) are mature enough, they will learn all of that, too. I just think that there's plenty of changes we can make to make them safer.
I would like to second that thought about a civil discussion. It seems these days there are few if any. But to your last points.

Concerning background checks, I have no issues with that. However, registration is another issue.

Speaking to the "Gun show loophole", there really isn't one that I am aware of today. I have purchased many guns at shows. Every dealer is required by law to run the same checks as a dealer at a brick and mortar store.

Private sales do not require a background check or waiting period that I am aware of, at least not in Va.

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C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
First off, I want to say thanks for the thought out reply. I appreciate this being a civil conversation.
Believe me, I try to stay as civil as I can but sometimes there’s just certain conversations and the intelligence of how some people think that it’s just really hard to be civil because what most people want ends up affecting the wrong people.

I want to hit on the specific point you have here:


I don’t understand how anyone could be against any gun control changes. Our laws are terrible and things like universal background checks are a no brainer. Same with closing the gun show loophole. Gun control doesn't work well in the US because we haven't every actually tried. We did what we always do, half-ass 50 different sets of rules that don't work effectively together.

To take it to the highest level I think we'd both agree on this based on your abortion comment; I don't care what people do so long as they aren't hurting others. That to me is what I think of as freedom. If we agree on that then we really just could disagree on the threshold of when the damage to society is too great vs. individual freedoms. If it was our jobs, and we honestly approached it that way, I would be surprised if we didn't find changes we'd both agree to that could make us safer without harming responsible gun owners. I am fine with many gun owners having them. Most of us keep them secured, in safe working conditions, and know how to safely handle them. When my kids (2 and 4 years old now) are mature enough, they will learn all of that, too. I just think that there's plenty of changes we can make to make them safer.
So first and foremost, what laws are you talking about that we can enact that don’t affect and restrict the good people? I mean, sure, I don’t have anything on my record that would keep me from buying probably any firearm out there that I wanted to buy that wasn’t fully automatic or whatever but see, that’s the point, the right to own and bear arms is a constitutional right that shall not be infringed. Being that so many people obtain guns in a non-legal or even illegal manner, I shouldn’t have to prove myself to exercise my rights. Now, if I do something to threaten those rights, that’s a different story but if I’ve done nothing wrong, I shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to take advantage of one of my constitutional rights.

But tell me why you think closing this supposed gun show loophole and universal background checks is a no-brainer when the one and only way that anybody could completely re-but that by saying no matter what the law says, people are not gonna follow the law and have a background check performed every time they buy a gun off of somebody or off the street? Tell me how that is such a good idea when it is so incredibly easy to circumvent?

Sure, just like that article that was on the Huffington post here a few weeks ago about where they were claiming that background checks kept 300,000 people from legally buying a gun but one thing that article didn’t tell you is how many of those people the next day still went and bought a gun off of somebody whether private sales was allowed or not and still got their gun that their background check kept them from doing in the first place? I’m sorry but I don’t care if somebody knowingly tries to buy a gun legally and gets stopped in their tracks because they’re an idiot because there’s so many other people who don’t even try to buy a gun the same way that you and I do because they know that they can’t so they don’t. Just because there’s stupid people who try, doesn’t mean they all do.

So you close this supposed gun show “loophole”; well guess what, that’ll just be one less place that most criminals will go to buy their guns. It’s just that simple. Did you actually keep a gun out of the wrong person‘s hands? Maybe that day but no, you just kept him from buying it in such a way were the person selling the gun would’ve made them fill out the ATF 4473 form.

There’s just simply no way to differentiate between the good people and the bad people until it’s too late so you just can’t accomplish that through background checks and red flag laws because those end up messing with the wrong people.


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