a Democrat Texan wants more gun control...........

[John Parks]

...

 

[Trell]

 

[sterling shoote]

I was under the impression that the vietnam era m16 was a 243...

The Vietnam era M16 was chambered for 5.56 X 45 and shot a 55 grain full metal jacket bullet from a 1/12 twist barrel. False stories described the bullet leaving the bore tumbling end over end akin to a turning circular saw blade. Of course, it's rifling, imparting a spin on the bullet and velocity, keeps a bullet on a uniform path. In other words, if the bullet tumbled upon leaving the bore marksmanship would be impossible. Later, the M16-A2 was developed to correct and/or enhance the original M16's feature set. Among these was a 1/7 twist barrel which would stabilize a 62 grain bullet, as well as tracer ammunition. Although the 62 grain ammunition could be shot from the orginal M16, the 1/12 twist would not keep the bullet stabilized for shooting beyond about 200 yards. The M16-A2 also featured Bullet Drop Compensation Iron Sights, which permitted sight adjustment for a 300 meter battle sight zero and bullet drop compensation to extend sight adjustment to 800 meters. The M16-A2's .070 front sight post also serves as a range finding feature, whereby the E-type target will match the apparent width of the sight post at about 175 meters; thus, the shooter can better understand the need to apply bullet drop compensation. The M16-A2's rear sight adjustment value for elevation is 1 MOA per click, windage is 1/2 MOA per click. The front sight has a 1 1/4 MOA elevation value per click. Today's M16-A4 has a removable detachable carry handle BDC sight. Removing the carry handle permits an optical sight to be mounted, like an ACOG. Most types of ACOG's feature a range finding/bullet compensation reticle which permits very fast and accurate adjustment of aim to engage targets to 600 meters without need to re-adjust the ACOG's inital Zero to the latest target distance. Now, interestingly enough, from my experience in AR-15 sales, most buyers of the AR-15 are not interested at all in Marksmanship and therefore cannot shoot the AR to hit where aimed beyond a few hundred yards with the as issued sights or an optic. These "shooters" do not know anything about the principles of marksmanship, building a steady position, external ballistics, wind & weather counters. zeroing/MOA, shooter/target analysis, or range estimation; but, that's OK. They just need to understand firearm safety to assure good times with their rifle purchase and if hunting with the rifle the shooter needs to know the distance to which he can get a good hit on the target.

 

[lp85253]

The Vietnam era M16 was chambered for 5.56 X 45 and shot a 55 grain full metal jacket bullet from a 1/12 twist barrel. False stories described the bullet leaving the bore tumbling end over end akin to a turning circular saw blade. Of course, it's rifling, imparting a spin on the bullet and velocity, keeps a bullet on a uniform path. In other words, if the bullet tumbled upon leaving the bore marksmanship would be impossible. Later, the M16-A2 was developed to correct and/or enhance the original M16's feature set. Among these was a 1/7 twist barrel which would stabilize a 62 grain bullet, as well as tracer ammunition. Although the 62 grain ammunition could be shot from the orginal M16, the 1/12 twist would not keep the bullet stabilized for shooting beyond about 200 yards. The M16-A2 also featured Bullet Drop Compensation Iron Sights, which permitted sight adjustment for a 300 meter battle sight zero and bullet drop compensation to extend sight adjustment to 800 meters. The M16-A2's .070 front sight post also serves as a range finding feature, whereby the E-type target will match the apparent width of the sight post at about 175 meters; thus, the shooter can better understand the need to apply bullet drop compensation. The M16-A2's rear sight adjustment value for elevation is 1 MOA per click, windage is 1/2 MOA per click. The front sight has a 1 1/4 MOA elevation value per click. Today's M16-A4 has a removable detachable carry handle BDC sight. Removing the carry handle permits an optical sight to be mounted, like an ACOG. Most types of ACOG's feature a range finding/bullet compensation reticle which permits very fast and accurate adjustment of aim to engage targets to 600 meters without need to re-adjust the ACOG's inital Zero to the latest target distance. Now, interestingly enough, from my experience in AR-15 sales, most buyers of the AR-15 are not interested at all in Marksmanship and therefore cannot shoot the AR to hit where aimed beyond a few hundred yards with the as issued sights or an optic. These "shooters" do not know anything about the principles of marksmanship, building a steady position, external ballistics, wind & weather counters. zeroing/MOA, shooter/target analysis, or range estimation; but, that's OK. They just need to understand firearm safety to assure good times with their rifle purchase and if hunting with the rifle the shooter needs to know the distance to which he can get a good hit on the target.

Thanks , that clears up some mythology for me..

 

[Mikado463]

Thanks , that clears up some mythology for me..

Good nice to see Sterling put that up for you, obviously Trell couldn't comprehend ....

 

[highfigh]

These "shooters" do not know anything about the principles of marksmanship, building a steady position, external ballistics, wind & weather counters. zeroing/MOA, shooter/target analysis, or range estimation; but, that's OK. They just need to understand firearm safety to assure good times with their rifle purchase and if hunting with the rifle the shooter needs to know the distance to which he can get a good hit on the target.

They're not buying these to become marksmen, they're buying them to shoot, say they have one/some, stroke their ego, play Army, etc. I have seen videos of people with modded AR-style rifles and some with bump stocks, ripping through a magazine in seconds and getting all giggly about it but as soon as they need to aim at a person, that all ends. I have seen people miss a big paper target from 15'- what would they do at a greater distance, other than hit something unintentionally? I was in a lane next to an idiot who came down with a long gun at a range that's not rated for long guns- he went through the magazine and shouted some BS before running up to the store before he was kicked out of the place. Casings flying all over and he wasn't aiming at anything specific, just wanted to make some noise.

 

[lp85253]

They're not buying these to become marksmen, they're buying them to shoot, say they have one/some, stroke their ego, play Army, etc. I have seen videos of people with modded AR-style rifles and some with bump stocks, ripping through a magazine in seconds and getting all giggly about it but as soon as they need to aim at a person, that all ends. I have seen people miss a big paper target from 15'- what would they do at a greater distance, other than hit something unintentionally? I was in a lane next to an idiot who came down with a long gun at a range that's not rated for long guns- he went through the magazine and shouted some BS before running up to the store before he was kicked out of the place. Casings flying all over and he wasn't aiming at anything specific, just wanted to make some noise.

the poster child case for gun control.. while the rest of us cringe , the collective of those that are ignorant point and say we are all like "that"... it's hard to overcome when they can point at all the mass shootings as evidence..

 

[Trell]

Good nice to see Sterling put that up for you, obviously Trell couldn't comprehend ....

You did not get the sarcasm, but then you obviously have comprehension issues in your advanced age ...

 

[trochetier]

They're not buying these to become marksmen, they're buying them to shoot, say they have one/some, stroke their ego, play Army, etc. I have seen videos of people with modded AR-style rifles and some with bump stocks, ripping through a magazine in seconds and getting all giggly about it but as soon as they need to aim at a person, that all ends. I have seen people miss a big paper target from 15'- what would they do at a greater distance, other than hit something unintentionally? I was in a lane next to an idiot who came down with a long gun at a range that's not rated for long guns- he went through the magazine and shouted some BS before running up to the store before he was kicked out of the place. Casings flying all over and he wasn't aiming at anything specific, just wanted to make some noise.

Many but these to "Take back the country from.....child molesters, deep state, dems ..." . Little brains fail to comprehend that the govt. has bigger better weapons and better trained shooters all paid for by their tax dollars.

 

[lp85253]

[QUOTw quick is the fed gov. Goi g tE="trochetier, post: 1460822, member: 92792"]
Many but these to "Take back the country from.....child molesters, deep state, dems ..." . Little brains fail to comprehend that the govt. has bigger better weapons and better trained shooters all paid for by their tax dollars.
[/QUOTE]
Yahtzee...that's the thing i don't get.. How the proud boyz figure they're going to fight the US military.. I can tell them how it's going to turn out for them, not well... I think maybe *they * think they can kick blm's ass and that will be the ball game.. I tend to doubt they can handle even that, and if they do how quick will the gov clean them up.. My guess is pretty quick...

 

[sterling shoote]

They're not buying these to become marksmen, they're buying them to shoot, say they have one/some, stroke their ego, play Army, etc. I have seen videos of people with modded AR-style rifles and some with bump stocks, ripping through a magazine in seconds and getting all giggly about it but as soon as they need to aim at a person, that all ends. I have seen people miss a big paper target from 15'- what would they do at a greater distance, other than hit something unintentionally? I was in a lane next to an idiot who came down with a long gun at a range that's not rated for long guns- he went through the magazine and shouted some BS before running up to the store before he was kicked out of the place. Casings flying all over and he wasn't aiming at anything specific, just wanted to make some noise.

Yes, that's right, marksmanship, defined as skill at hitting a mark, is not a motivation for firearm purchase; but, many people do buy firearms to pursue marksmanship competitions. From my firearm sales experience I have learned folks buy firearms for a multitude of reasons, the most common are personal defense, hunting, and sport shooting. Although all of these purposes require some marksmanship to get desired results, most purchasers do not perceive the need for any marksmanship training because they equate being able to operate a firearm with knowing how to shoot. Thing is, since they do not understand the two principles of marksmanship they will not get the desired or expected results from their firearms. In other words, they don't know that they don't know and that condition precludes those shooters to less than the best results. But, again, that's OK, as long as they know and follow safe firearm handling practices, which will prevent mishaps.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, that's right, marksmanship, defined as skill at hitting a mark, is not a motivation for firearm purchase; but, many people do buy firearms to pursue marksmanship competitions. From my firearm sales experience I have learned folks buy firearms for a multitude of reasons, the most common are personal defense, hunting, and sport shooting. Although all of these purposes require some marksmanship to get desired results, most purchasers do not perceive the need for any marksmanship training because they equate being able to operate a firearm with knowing how to shoot. Thing is, since they do not understand the two principles of marksmanship they will not get the desired or expected results from their firearms. In other words, they don't know that they don't know and that condition precludes those shooters to less than the best results. But, again, that's OK, as long as they know and follow safe firearm handling practices, which will prevent mishaps.

And safe storage practices. Unsafe handling, careless storage resulting in theft and access by children result in far too many deaths.

Any thoughts of people practicing went out the window with the recent increase of gun sales- the president of Winchester (and the other associated brands) made a video about the lack of ammunition where he explained why the shortage exists. Approximately 70 million first-time guns were sold by the time of the video and if each person bought 100 rounds, that's seven billion bullets. I 'm not sure the number is correct, but when a local TV show that went to different places and spoke to people in their community leaders, businesses & people did an episode at a place that makes brass items- one type of part is bullet casings. IIRC, the guy said they cam make over a million casings per day, but not how many of each caliber. I don't know how many other manufacturers produce these, but if a total of ten million bullets/day is the total capacity, it would take almost two years to come make 70 billion. If the proposed House Bill is passed into law, the 50% tax on ammunition might make practice and target shooting a thing of the past.

 

[highfigh]

[QUOTw quick is the fed gov. Goi g tE="trochetier, post: 1460822, member: 92792"]
Many but these to "Take back the country from.....child molesters, deep state, dems ..." . Little brains fail to comprehend that the govt. has bigger better weapons and better trained shooters all paid for by their tax dollars.

Yahtzee...that's the thing i don't get.. How the proud boyz figure they're going to fight the US military.. I can tell them how it's going to turn out for them, not well... I think maybe *they * think they can kick blm's ass and that will be the ball game.. I tend to doubt they can handle even that, and if they do how quick will the gov clean them up.. My guess is pretty quick...
[/QUOTE]

Maybe they (Proud Boyz) think it would be like plinking. Yeah, that'll work.

 

[highfigh]

the poster child case for gun control.. while the rest of us cringe , the collective of those that are ignorant point and say we are all like "that"... it's hard to overcome when they can point at all the mass shootings as evidence..

The death count from every mass shooting in the last 100 years (apart from war) is less than one year's gun death tally in the US and most annual deaths had nothing to do with AR-style weapons. Legal gun owners had little to do with these, other than carelessly storing/handling their guns or the straw buyers.

 

[sterling shoote]

And safe storage practices. Unsafe handling, careless storage resulting in theft and access by children result in far too many deaths.

Any thoughts of people practicing went out the window with the recent increase of gun sales- the president of Winchester (and the other associated brands) made a video about the lack of ammunition where he explained why the shortage exists. Approximately 70 million first-time guns were sold by the time of the video and if each person bought 100 rounds, that's seven billion bullets. I 'm not sure the number is correct, but when a local TV show that went to different places and spoke to people in their community leaders, businesses & people did an episode at a place that makes brass items- one type of part is bullet casings. IIRC, the guy said they cam make over a million casings per day, but not how many of each caliber. I don't know how many other manufacturers produce these, but if a total of ten million bullets/day is the total capacity, it would take almost two years to come make 70 billion. If the proposed House Bill is passed into law, the 50% tax on ammunition might make practice and target shooting a thing of the past.

I'm a hand-loader and I still have a difficult time getting all the components necessary to load ammunition. And for sure, factory loaded .223 and 5.56 in standard or match grades is very hard to come by these days. I used to shoot about 1500 rounds a month. I remember my AMX statement showing I had spent 30 thousand dollars on ammunition one year when I was trying to get to a higher shooting classification. Many years later, my experience told me I could have reached the higher classification simply by dry firing practice, that's shooting on an empty chamber, whereby the shooter records where the sights were aimed on the target at the time the trigger was pulled. The idea is all about learning to pull the trigger so SMOOTHLY that the sights will remain on the bullseye when the trigger is pulled. It also helps the shooter to keep focus on the front sight since when focus is on target rather than front sight the shooter can not say where the sight was pointed upon pulling the trigger. At any rate, the dry firing practice promotes good shooter/target analysis when live firing. For example if the shooter sees that the sights are aimed at the center of the bullseye upon pulling the trigger then the shooter can expect that the bullet will have hit the center of the target, unless the sights were not adjusted correctly. If the shooter calls the shot to have hit at 9 o''clock of the center and indeed the bullet hole is at 9 o'clock of the center of target that confirms that the gun is zeroed or sighted-in properly but that trigger control was poor. I see folks out on the rifle range the day before deer season attempting to sight-in their guns but even after expending several boxes of ammunition still do not have their guns zeroed since they did not know the bullet did not hit where aimed because aim was disturbed by poor trigger control. Then, adjusting the sights will of course cause the next shot to be misplaced whether the trigger was smoothly pulled or not and so it goes. It's interesting stuff, which likely is boring to folks here so I apologize in advance.

 

[highfigh]

I'm a hand-loader and I still have a difficult time getting all the components necessary to load ammunition. And for sure, factory loaded .223 and 5.56 in standard or match grades is very hard to come by these days. I used to shoot about 1500 rounds a month. I remember my AMX statement showing I had spent 30 thousand dollars on ammunition one year when I was trying to get to a higher shooting classification. Many years later, my experience told me I could have reached the higher classification simply by dry firing practice, that's shooting on an empty chamber, whereby the shooter records where the sights were aimed on the target at the time the trigger was pulled. The idea is all about learning to pull the trigger so SMOOTHLY that the sights will remain on the bullseye when the trigger is pulled. It also helps the shooter to keep focus on the front sight since when focus is on target rather than front sight the shooter can not say where the sight was pointed upon pulling the trigger. At any rate, the dry firing practice promotes good shooter/target analysis when live firing. For example if the shooter sees that the sights are aimed at the center of the bullseye upon pulling the trigger then the shooter can expect that the bullet will have hit the center of the target, unless the sights were not adjusted correctly. If the shooter calls the shot to have hit at 9 o''clock of the center and indeed the bullet hole is at 9 o'clock of the center of target that confirms that the gun is zeroed or sighted-in properly but that trigger control was poor. I see folks out on the rifle range the day before deer season attempting to sight-in their guns but even after expending several boxes of ammunition still do not have their guns zeroed since they did not know the bullet did not hit where aimed because aim was disturbed by poor trigger control. Then, adjusting the sights will of course cause the next shot to be misplaced whether the trigger was smoothly pulled or not and so it goes. It's interesting stuff, which likely is boring to folks here so I apologize in advance.

But you're not providing ammunition to LEO and the military, so your access to the supplies isn't a priority.

So many people blame whatever tool they're using for their inability to get the desired/preferred results. I went to the range with a new 9mm and my first shot was about 2" directly to the left of center, the next round was within a few 1/16" from dead center. I almost went home- how much better can it get? I hadn't fired a gun in over a decade.

Someone asked how it went and I said "It shoots better than I do".

Many hate him, but one comment that makes sense came from Jesse Ventura when he was asked about gun control- "I’m all for gun control, I just define it a little differently. If you can put 2 rounds into the same hole from 25 meters, that’s gun control! If you’re going to own a gun, you have an obligation to know what you’re doing with it."

Here's the link-

Jesse Ventura on Gun Control

He's one of the people where they sound fine and then, everyone says "And there he goes".

 

[sterling shoote]

But you're not providing ammunition to LEO and the military, so your access to the supplies isn't a priority.

I've never had any position whereby I had access to ammunition, except in certain instances when shooting in the National Matches at Camp Perry, OH.

 

[sterling shoote]

But you're not providing ammunition to LEO and the military, so your access to the supplies isn't a priority.

So many people blame whatever tool they're using for their inability to get the desired/preferred results. I went to the range with a new 9mm and my first shot was about 2" directly to the left of center, the next round was within a few 1/16" from dead center. I almost went home- how much better can it get? I hadn't fired a gun in over a decade.

Someone asked how it went and I said "It shoots better than I do".

Many hate him, but one comment that makes sense came from Jesse Ventura when he was asked about gun control- "I’m all for gun control, I just define it a little differently. If you can put 2 rounds into the same hole from 25 meters, that’s gun control! If you’re going to own a gun, you have an obligation to know what you’re doing with it."

Here's the link-

Jesse Ventura on Gun Control

He's one of the people where they sound fine and then, everyone says "And there he goes".

Re "it shoots better than I do", the Army Squad Designated Marksman Course begins with this: The bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. Some folks question that statement; yet, being fact, it means to hit the target the shooter must know where the rifle barrel is pointed. This is achieved by properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment. It's pretty simple stuff, if the shooter is not hitting where aimed either the shooter has not properly aligned the sights , or aim has been disturbed while pulling the trigger; yet, novice shooters, as you alluded to, will place blame on the rifle, or its sights being broken. BTW, you obviously know how to shoot. Were you formally trained, or self taught? In my case, I gleaned instruction from books and pamphlets on marksmanship. I thought I knew it all but I actually knew nothing. It was not until I began assisting the USAMU deliver the SDM Course that I connected instruction with actions to improve my performance.

 

[trochetier]

[QUOTw quick is the fed gov. Goi g tE="trochetier, post: 1460822, member: 92792"]
Many but these to "Take back the country from.....child molesters, deep state, dems ..." . Little brains fail to comprehend that the govt. has bigger better weapons and better trained shooters all paid for by their tax dollars.

Yahtzee...that's the thing i don't get.. How the proud boyz figure they're going to fight the US military.. I can tell them how it's going to turn out for them, not well... I think maybe *they * think they can kick blm's ass and that will be the ball game.. I tend to doubt they can handle even that, and if they do how quick will the gov clean them up.. My guess is pretty quick...
[/QUOTE]

I'd like match these guys up in a fire fight against a band of Taliban fighters!

 

[Mikado463]

Yahtzee... the proud boyz , I'd like match these guys up in a fire fight against a band of Taliban fighters!

Cool, that would be the flag heads against the rag heads ......