a Democrat Texan wants more gun control...........

[John Parks]

Any debate starts with the presentation of facts; however, the Democrats are not interested in facts; thus, debate is thwarted for emotional appeals devoid of any facts. At any rate, here are some interesting facts about commercial equivalents of the US Service Rifle. In 1903 President Roosevelt signed into law the National Defense Act, which required to Army to teach interested civilians how to shoot the US Service Rifle. The idea was to have a nation of Marksmen should our Country be mobilized for war. In 1922 law was passed to permit citizens who had been trained by the Army to join in military shooting competitions. This law as well as the one requiring the Army to teach interested civilians how to shoot are still honored today. In 2004 or thereabouts there was a twist to the Army training civilians, the Army recruited top civilian Marksman volunteers to assist the United States Army Marksmanship Unit deliver the Squad Designated Marksman Course. I was one of those civilians accepted into the program. The bottom line is this: there is a very long tradition of military rifle marksmanship here in the US which has served our Country well, since Marksmanship cannot be taught overnight and thus to send Soldiers into harms way without proper training, which takes more years than an enlistment, is not moral.

My father was a national champion ROTC marksman and is enshrined in the Texas Western (now UTEP) hall of fame. After law school, he was a marksman while serving in the Army. I could not have had a better teacher!

 

[sterling shoote]

My father was a national champion ROTC marksman and is enshrined in the Texas Western (now UTEP) hall of fame. After law school, he was a marksman while serving in the Army. I could not have had a better teacher!

Yep, you indeed could not have had a better teacher. I learned how to shoot from what I gleaned from attending the US Army's Small Arms Firing School on many occasions. And, no doubt I learned from their knowledge of how to do it and how to teach it.

 

[Alex2507]

I learned how to shoot from what I gleaned from attending the US Army's Small Arms Firing School

 

[sterling shoote]

View attachment 44362

Yeah, some folks just don't know that they don't know. And the example you gave demonstrates it. Here's a pic demonstrating consistent sight alignment and SMOOTH trigger control, iron sight match conditioned AR-15 shooting at 600 yard target reduced for 100 yards. 198 X 17

 

[Old Onkyo]

Any debate starts with the presentation of facts; however, the Democrats are not interested in facts; thus, debate is thwarted for emotional appeals devoid of any facts. At any rate, here are some interesting facts about commercial equivalents of the US Service Rifle. In 1903 President Roosevelt signed into law the National Defense Act, which required to Army to teach interested civilians how to shoot the US Service Rifle. The idea was to have a nation of Marksmen should our Country be mobilized for war. In 1922 law was passed to permit citizens who had been trained by the Army to join in military shooting competitions. This law as well as the one requiring the Army to teach interested civilians how to shoot are still honored today. In 2004 or thereabouts there was a twist to the Army training civilians, the Army recruited top civilian Marksman volunteers to assist the United States Army Marksmanship Unit deliver the Squad Designated Marksman Course. I was one of those civilians accepted into the program. The bottom line is this: there is a very long tradition of civilian military rifle marksmanship here in the US which has served our Country well, since Marksmanship cannot be taught overnight and thus it precludes having to send Soldiers into harms way without enough proper training, which is not moral.

Exactly what are you trying to debate? With who?
I am ex military, ordnance.

 

[sterling shoote]

Exactly what are you trying to debate? With who?
I am ex military, ordnance.

My bad. I'm not debating anything. I'm just stating my belief that Democrat leadership is not interested in debate, which demands consideration of facts. Democrats know facts do not support more gun control and therefore they present emotional appeals to move their gun confiscation agenda.. Second, the rest of my conversation is about our government's history promoting US Service Rifle use by civilians as a means to have a nation of marksmen should we mobilize for war.

 

[highfigh]

Sterling I remember it well, along with King Cuomo up in NY stating there was no use and or need for an AR-15, while at the same time not knowing(or in his case comprehending) that it was in fact a legal hunting firearm in his own state !

And, it's one of the most popular hunting rifles.

 

[highfigh]

while I tend to agree I can only hope that some day we can effectively remove them from the criminals.

Until criminals decide to follow laws, this won't happen. The network for buying and selling stolen guns is far too large and it's too easy to skirt the legal system to do this.

 

[highfigh]

That will never happen. A person is not a criminal until they commit a criminal act, are arrested, and convicted Of a crime.

everyone that entered the Capital on January 6th is a criminal, wanna guess the percentage of gun owners in the group?

wanna guess how many will be convicted of a crime?

It could be argued that your definition applies only to 'convicted criminal'. Performing a criminal act/disobeying a law is what makes them a criminal, IMO. Getting away with breaking laws doesn't prevent someone from being a criminal- if someone murders another person, are they not a criminal?

 

[highfigh]

To go back to my comments about people stooping to new lows-

Family: Man killed near Marquette University over designer glasses

The victim's brother said the shooting was about a pair of $1,100 Cartier glasses.

www.wisn.com

Murder of black Trump supporter Bernell Trammell spurs call for federal investigation

The shooting death of a black Trump supporter in Milwaukee has state Republicans calling for a federal investigation. Bernell Trammell, 60, a dreadlocked activist known for carrying handmade signs …

nypost.com

The second happened last year and I have heard absolutely NOTHING about it since, other than a YouTube video that was put up a month after it happened. The shooter is on video, but it seems that nobody knows who he is or where he went.

 

[Old Onkyo]

It could be argued that your definition applies only to 'convicted criminal'. Performing a criminal act/disobeying a law is what makes them a criminal, IMO. Getting away with breaking laws doesn't prevent someone from being a criminal- if someone murders another person, are they not a criminal?

legally no.
Morally yes.

 

[Mikado463]

Until criminals decide to follow laws, this won't happen. The network for buying and selling stolen guns is far too large and it's too easy to skirt the legal system to do this.

that's exactly my point, straw purchases, plea bargaining BS and the list goes on .........

 

[Old Onkyo]

Legal gun owners should be the biggest proponents of gun control laws.

 

[Mikado463]

Legal gun owners should be the biggest proponents of gun control laws.

I agree for the sensible ones and only then if the bastards ENFORCE them !

 

[lp85253]

And, it's one of the most popular hunting rifles.

I wouldn't know why , for large game that's a mere pop gun..Edit.. A big grizzly would be pickin you outta his teeth by the time you got enough rounds in him to slow him down....

 

[lovinthehd]

My bad. I'm not debating anything. I'm just stating my belief that Democrat leadership is not interested in debate, which demands consideration of facts. Democrats know facts do not support more gun control and therefore they present emotional appeals to move their gun confiscation agenda.. Second, the rest of my conversation is about our government's history promoting US Service Rifle use by civilians as a means to have a nation of marksmen should we mobilize for war.

While I doubt your statement is factual and more the way you look at things, as you could say the opposite is just as true, that the republicans have entertained almost zero discussion whatsoever. There is no gun confiscation agenda. The second amendment does mention a well regulated militia, which has happened here and there, but not like the gun nut version we've seen so much of lately...

 

[Trell]

My bad. I'm not debating anything. I'm just stating my belief that Democrat leadership is not interested in debate, which demands consideration of facts. Democrats know facts do not support more gun control and therefore they present emotional appeals to move their gun confiscation agenda.. Second, the rest of my conversation is about our government's history promoting US Service Rifle use by civilians as a means to have a nation of marksmen should we mobilize for war.

An excellent example of Democrats gun control overreach and paranoia is House Democrats forbidding House members to enter the cambers with guns and are even screening them with metal detectors before entry. To complete this the Democrats are fining anyone trying to circumvent the screening before entering, just because someone wants to exercise their God given 2nd Amendment.

It is as if the Democrats don't trust the fine and upstanding GOP members like Marjorie Taylor Greene with guns, especially not in the House chambers. I'm gobsmacked by that lack of trust, because we all know that the Republicans members of Congress have sterling attributes like impeccable moral character, candour, courage, patriotism and putting country above the party. The GOP House members thinks very highly of Ms Greene and gave her a standing ovation in face of Democratic abuse of power and cancel culture, and rightly so.

 

[sterling shoote]

Until criminals decide to follow laws, this won't happen. The network for buying and selling stolen guns is far too large and it's too easy to skirt the legal system to do this.

I worked part time at a gun store after I retired. This was complementary to my interest in US Service Rifle Competition and assisting the USAMU deliver the Squad Designated Marksman Course, as well as Small Arms Firing School, that's to say, I was a highly credentialed AR-15 salesman. At any rate, the concern for all FFL holders is the straw purchaser, that's of course a person who can legally purchase a gun who illegally attempts to buy a gun for someone who cannot legally possess a firearm. It's just not possible to tag these purchasers, unless their behavior reveals deception.

 

[diskreet]

I'm just stating my belief that Democrat leadership is not interested in debate, which demands consideration of facts. Democrats know facts do not support more gun control and therefore they present emotional appeals to move their gun confiscation agenda.

Ah yes, let's try to debate the people that effectively banned government scientists from researching gun violence and it's impact on public health. Let's be honest; the left doesn't understand guns enough to make meaningful proposals, and the right is so entrenched in regressive gun policy that GOP politicians can't even support universal background checks that have 90+% approval throughout America. It's impossible to compromise when one party is incapable of changing their minds no matter what.

I'm a liberal gun owner and I couldn't be more excited for the potential increase in gun regulations in the coming decade. I hope it becomes vastly more difficult to buy a firearm soon. The longer the right resists all new regulations, the more extreme the push back will be as they lose power. Good.

 

[panteragstk]

Legal gun owners should be the biggest proponents of gun control laws.

I am. Always have been. When people I know hear me say that they don't stop and think what "gun control laws" even mean to me.

I usually ask them "have you done anything that would prevent you from buying a gun if there were more strict restrictions in place?" "No." "Then why does it bother you?"

Now, the 30 round magazine thing came up and that's one I don't get. You don't need 30 rounds available to do anything outside of something bad, or screwing around. No way hunting will need more than 5 at a time. Plus, it makes the gun more cumbersome. I don't know anyone that uses them for hunting. They all say they want them "just in case". Sure. Ok.

I just want stricter background checks and for them to keep track of who's buying what. They probably already know if they use the FBI background check, but maybe they don't keep a national record. They should.

I also don't think you should be able to go to a gun show and not have to have a background check to purchase. IIRC this is only from individuals in Texas, but that's going to vary from state to state. I know that legally anyone can sell anyone a gun, but that should have some regulation behind it. I know you have to have it registered to the new party, but I'm not sure how that's enforced currently.

None of those things should hurt 99.9% of current gun owners. Most of those just follow the law and mind their business. It's always the few morons that ruin everything for everyone else.