A Christmas Upgrade Advice-- AV Receiver- Please

[greatestboss]

ShadyJ did a review of the X15 and the X12 as well.
SB16 Ultra was reviewed a while back.

They are all well rated. Would you be able to fit two of the X12 or would you be looking at only 1 of any of these models? SVS is popular in North America partly because of their return policy and pricing. I would not recommend the cheaper Paradigm subs but when you move up to the X series the Paradigms are very capable. SVS has good extension for a sealed design and has very low distortion. Paradigm is a ported design, which is generally preferred, and also has very strong mid-bass.

Either would be a good step up from the SuperCube. The rated spec of 13Hz - 200Hz was not accurate and the -3dB point was closer to 27Hz. The X15 and SB16 both have usable output below 20Hz.

I really don't have much space for two if you see the pictures, I thought of the Paradigm as my LCR are all Paradigm and it would match. I would have gone to the SVS PB 16 if it was available (sold out till Mar 2025) but only the SB 16 is available for now.

 

[everettT]

Quick question. I went shopping for Subwoofer because mine is overdue a replacement based on your recommendation and other members too. I found the following

Paradigm Defiance X12
Paradigm Defiance X15
SVS SB 16
Which one is the best choice for my type of setup and room.

If you can't go duals, the SB16 would be my choice. Solid sub, over engineered, and excellent circuit protection for when you really wanna push it, not to mention top notch Customer Service.

 

[greatestboss]

ShadyJ did a review of the X15 and the X12 as well.
SB16 Ultra was reviewed a while back.

They are all well rated. Would you be able to fit two of the X12 or would you be looking at only 1 of any of these models? SVS is popular in North America partly because of their return policy and pricing. I would not recommend the cheaper Paradigm subs but when you move up to the X series the Paradigms are very capable. SVS has good extension for a sealed design and has very low distortion. Paradigm is a ported design, which is generally preferred, and also has very strong mid-bass.

Either would be a good step up from the SuperCube. The rated spec of 13Hz - 200Hz was not accurate and the -3dB point was closer to 27Hz. The X15 and SB16 both have usable output below 20Hz.

Thanks @Eppie for your advice. As you can see from the pictures I posted, there is not much room for 2 Subs although I know it's the preferred choice. I will defintily not opt for the Cheaper Paradigm if I decide on the brand, The X series only. As I'm outside the US, the return policy and pricing are irrelvant in my case. As you pointed out the paradigm are ported which is my preference.
Also the inclusion of arc room correction on the Defiance subs will be a great benefit, doing a lot for me that acccu-eq won't.

 

[greatestboss]

Then it is an easy decision for you, in the US and Canada, the Cinema 30 costs about $1,000 more when not on sale. When on sale, the AVR-X6800H had been down to C$2,999, and that would have been US$2,000!!

So, a big congratulations to you landing one of the best available AVR for $3,730 net.

For subwoofers, I know I am biased, I like SVS as a company so I would recommend the SB16-Ultra. The PB16-Ultra is much more capable but for that you will need a large room and proper space for that gigantic 175 lb.

Update: Denon called me today and offered the AVR-X6800H for $2,900. That's around $850 less that Cinema 30. Regardless of the looks which the winner is clear in my opinion, is AVR-X6800H as good as the C30.
I have second thoughts. Is there anything in the C30 that justify the $830 other than the looks

 

[greatestboss]

If you can't go duals, the SB16 would be my choice. Solid sub, over engineered, and excellent circuit protection for when you really wanna push it, not to mention top notch Customer Service.

Thank you ,
the paradigm are ported, SB16 is not I believe. Yet you prefer SB16, Can you shed some light why?
Also the inclusion of arc room correction on the Defiance subs is a plus, don't you agree.

 

[everettT]

Thank you ,
the paradigm are ported, SB16 is not I believe. Yet you prefer SB16, Can you shed some light why?
Also the inclusion of arc room correction on the Defiance subs is a plus, don't you agree.

For your room size, it's just fine IMHO

 

[PENG]

Update: Denon called me today and offered the AVR-X6800H for $2,900. That's around $850 less that Cinema 30. Regardless of the looks which the winner is clear in my opinion, is AVR-X6800H as good as the C30.
I have second thoughts. Is there anything in the C30 that justify the $830 other than the looks

Do you get 5 years warranty from Marantz over there? If you use the build in power amps, the C30 is a little better but as we all know it will be difficult to feel that less than 1 dB of difference. So imo it is the look, build quality and 2 years longer warranty that may or may not worth the extra $850 that can be spent on a better subwoofer or Dirac Live DLBC license that will make audible difference for sure.

 

[greatestboss]

Do you get 5 years warranty from Marantz over there? If you use the build in power amps, the C30 is a little better but as we all know it will be difficult to feel that less than 1 dB of difference. So imo it is the look, build quality and 2 years longer warranty that may or may not worth the extra $850 that can be spent on a better subwoofer or Dirac Live DLBC license that will make audible difference for sure.

Thanks, Unfortunately they only offer 1 Year warranty on all AV Receivers in here. However I found the Onkyo TX-RZ70 for $3,200 including shipping with 2 Years Warranty in Dubai and they'll ship it to me directly. Is it better than the Cinema 30 and Denon AVR-X6800H. How would you rank them from Number 1 to 3.

 

[greatestboss]

For your room size, it's just fine IMHO

I found these Subs in Dubai and they will offer me free shipping for a limited time. Can you check them and let me know your thoughts.

Subwoofers - Dubai Audio

dubaiaudio.com

They offered me the SVS PB-3000 for a good price, it it any good?

Also is the Perlisten a good Subwoofer brand

 

[PENG]

How would you rank them from Number 1 to 3.

On price no object bases:
1 - Cinema 30
2 - AVR-X6800H
3- RZ70

If C30 price is $500 or more than the AVR-X3800H then I would rank them equal.

If you plan on using external amp, or least a 2 channel amp for the LCR channels, then I would rank the Denon No.1, just based on "value".

That's of course just my opinion. Look, and build quality that does not affect sound quality is important to me but up to a point only.

 

[everettT]

I found these Subs in Dubai and they will offer me free shipping for a limited time. Can you check them and let me know your thoughts.

Subwoofers - Dubai Audio

dubaiaudio.com

They offered me the SVS PB-3000 for a good price, it it any good?

Also is the Perlisten a good Subwoofer brand

The two PB3000s would make great additions. The Perlistens are very well engineered subs (superbly), just expensive for a single sub in your room. Going with a Perlisten sub versus duals from SVS won't be a victory IMHO (unless they're giving away the 15 or 18).

 

[greatestboss]

The two PB3000s would make great additions. The Perlistens are very well engineered subs (superbly), just expensive for a single sub in your room. Going with a Perlisten sub versus duals from SVS won't be a victory IMHO (unless they're giving away the 15 or 18).

I found the PB3000 for $1,400 each just a short while ago.

 

[greatestboss]

On price no object bases:
1 - Cinema 30
2 - AVR-X6800H
3- RZ70

If C30 price is $500 or more than the AVR-X3800H then I would rank them equal.

If you plan on using external amp, or least a 2 channel amp for the LCR channels, then I would rank the Denon No.1, just based on "value".

That's of course just my opinion. Look, and build quality that does not affect sound quality is important to me but up to a point only.

The C30 is $850 more expensive than the AVR-X6800H. I won't be using external amp for sure. For some reason my heart is with the C30. Something about it is pulling me towards the deal.

 

[everettT]

I found the PB3000 for $1,400 each just a short while ago.

I'd take two of those over the 16 ultra personally. The sb16 is a beast, but if you have the ability two place two subs over one, I'd take that first. Heck, two 4000s SBs would be great in your room size and probably close to the same price..

 

[greatestboss]

I'd take two of those over the 16 ultra personally. The sb16 is a beast, but if you have the ability two place two subs over one, I'd take that first. Heck, two 4000s SBs would be great in your room size and probably close to the same price..

Thanks, that's a valuable info that makes my decision clearer. I believe you meant two 3000s SBs not 4000s SB's

 

[everettT]

Thanks, that's a valuable info that makes my decision clearer. I believe you meant two 3000s SBs not 4000s SB's

We were originally talking 3000s but the Perlisten price would move it closer to 4000s, but yes, the 3000s will do a great job for you.

 

[greatestboss]

I wanted to ask, so many people advised me against replacing the Onkyo TX-NR 3030 as it's more than sufficient for my setup. In it's heyday it was the Top of Onkyo range of AV Receivers. However some have asked if i can go the separate route. I have found the Marantz MM8077 7-Channel Power Amplifier for $1848 & the Marantz MM7055 5-Channel Power Amplifier for $975. Do you think I should get any one of these and hook it to my Onkyo 3030. Would I get better Audio instead of buying the Cinema 30.
Of Course the Sub will be replaced too with the SB17 or Defiance X15 depending on availability. Hence it'll be a major upgrade on both fronts.
What do you think?

 

[Eppie]

To be honest, the 130W/ch in the Onkyo is enough for most people unless you like concert level volume. The MM8077 is 150W/ch which is not that much extra headroom. You need double the power for a 3dB increase in volume. I don't think the extra 20W is worth the expense. Most of the content goes to the front 3 speakers, so adding say a 3-channel amp with closer to 200W/ch would add some headroom but amps should all sound the same. The AVR could then run the surrounds.

Adding amps won't address the issue of having older video tech. I think that would be the main reason to upgrade if any. If you want to add external amplification, another option is to spend less on an AVR with a little less power (but fully featured) and add an external amp for the fronts. The X6800H is rated slightly above the Onkyo at 140W/ch.

The X15 is still an excellent sub.

 

[greatestboss]

As everyone have recommended, I bought a wall mount and fixed the TV and moved the Center Speaker on top of the Stand. Perfect and immediate sound improvement (see the attached photos).
Another Q please- Can you let me know if the X-15 would be a good fit in the place of the table. If you notice from the picture, the Definitive Sub place is too small to fit the X-15 (see photo with arrow)

 

[everettT]

As everyone have recommended, I bought a wall mount and fixed the TV and moved the Center Speaker on top of the Stand. Perfect and immediate sound improvement (see the attached photos).
Another Q please- Can you let me know if the X-15 would be a good fit in the place of the table. If you notice from the picture, the Definitive Sub place is too small to fit the X-15 (see photo with arrow)

Hard to say as low frequency is room dependant, try and see. With a $100 measurement microphone and REW, you can map the best locations for sub/s