A Christmas Upgrade Advice-- AV Receiver- Please

[greatestboss]

Hey everyone, I would highly appreciate your advice on upgrading my A/V Receiver as a Christmas Gift to myself

Current Setup:

• AV Receiver Onkyo TX-NR3030
• Panasonic DP-UB9000- 4K Player
• Denon DBT-3313UDCI - Blu-ray player
• Fronts: Paradigm Prestige 85F
• Center Paradigm Prestige 55C
• Surround: Definitive BPVX Powered
• Back Surround Definitive BPX
• 2 Pairs of Atmos Speakers SVS Prime Elevation Speaker placed on top of the fronts and surrounds,
• Subwoofer Definitive Technology SuperCube I
• Sony 85" TV Bravia 9
• Room Size 16 Feet X 15 Feet

My interests 4K Movies, Documentaries (Physical Discs Collection of 1,200 Discs), Football+ Sports 85% and Streaming 10%, Music 5% (CD's & Records)

I really like the Marantz Cinema 30 and I was wondering if replacing my 10+ years old Onkyo will make a difference. Any other recommendations are highly appreciated.

Happy Holidays

 

[Eppie]

When you say "make a difference", what do you find lacking in your current setup? The NR3030 was top tier so I would not expect a significant change in sound. What probably has improved the most is auto speaker calibration. Audyssey and Dirac have improved since AccuEQ, but are you using the AccuEQ room calibration?

The Onkyo can upscale to 4K, so are there any video features lacking? Do you need HDR and Dolby Vision support?

Do you foresee adding more subwoofers? The Cinema 30 supports 4 subwoofers and adding Dirac DLBC would help bass management.

Unless there are specific features lacking it might be hard to justify the expense but others may chime in with differing opinions.

 

[everettT]

The Denon x3800 would be good choice and leave money for a subwoofer upgrade

 

[Trebdp83]

The Onkyo is limited to the HDMI High Speed(10Gbps) spec. This limits 4K @60Hz to 4:2:0 8 bit color in SDR/HDR and is the reason it does not support Dolby Vision. HDCP 2.2 is supported on just one HDMI port.
The Cinema 30 has HDMI 2.1 Ultra(40Gbps) spec ports supporting 8K@60Hz/4K @120Hz RGB/YCbCr 4:4:4 10 bit color uncompressed for next gen game consoles and PCs. A new receiver will also support eARC for full bandwidth audio back to the receiver if connecting some devices directly to the tV.

The Onkyo, while updated to support Dolby Atmos, still has the older Pro Logic IIz and DTS Neo up mixers. New models from every brand will feature Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X up mixers. The new "object" based up mixers require monopole speakers all the way around to work optimally. The Height speakers here should be mounted high on a wall angled downward or placed on their backs if used on top of other speakers as the angle is not steep enough in their current state to bounce off of the ceiling. The room might be better suited for a 5.1.4 configuration with some mini towers used for surround speakers. It would not hurt at all to get an additional subwoofer.

 

[greatestboss]

When you say "make a difference", what do you find lacking in your current setup? The NR3030 was top tier so I would not expect a significant change in sound. What probably has improved the most is auto speaker calibration. Audyssey and Dirac have improved since AccuEQ, but are you using the AccuEQ room calibration?

The Onkyo can upscale to 4K, so are there any video features lacking? Do you need HDR and Dolby Vision support?

Do you foresee adding more subwoofers? The Cinema 30 supports 4 subwoofers and adding Dirac DLBC would help bass management.

Unless there are specific features lacking it might be hard to justify the expense but others may chime in with differing opinions.

I thought that the technology has improved from 10 years ago for AV Receivers. I'm currently using the AccuEQ room calibration, no other option with the Onkyo I believe.
I don't use the Onkyo to upscale, I've connected the HDMI directly from the Panasonic DP-UB9000 to the Sony TV. It has HDR and Dolby Vision. All my video sources are connected directly to the TV. I use the Onkyo as the main source for Audio.

 

[greatestboss]

The Denon x3800 would be good choice and leave money for a subwoofer upgrade

Yes I got a lot of comments on my Subwoofer and that it's the weak link in my setup. Any recommendation for a subwoofer. Is the SVS SB16 16-inches 1500W Ultra Subwoofer a good upgrade.
Any other advice on the AV Receiver, is Cinema 40 a good choice, it's cheaper than the 30.

 

[greatestboss]

The Onkyo is limited to the HDMI High Speed(10Gbps) spec. This limits 4K @60Hz to 4:2:0 8 bit color in SDR/HDR and is the reason it does not support Dolby Vision. HDCP 2.2 is supported on just one HDMI port.
The Cinema 30 has HDMI 2.1 Ultra(40Gbps) spec ports supporting 8K@60Hz/4K @120Hz RGB/YCbCr 4:4:4 10 bit color uncompressed for next gen game consoles and PCs. A new receiver will also support eARC for full bandwidth audio back to the receiver if connecting some devices directly to the tV.

The Onkyo, while updated to support Dolby Atmos, still has the older Pro Logic IIz and DTS Neo up mixers. New models from every brand will feature Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X up mixers. The new "object" based up mixers require monopole speakers all the way around to work optimally. The Height speakers here should be mounted high on a wall angled downward or placed on their backs if used on top of other speakers as the angle is not steep enough in their current state to bounce off of the ceiling. The room might be better suited for a 5.1.4 configuration with some mini towers used for surround speakers. It would not hurt at all to get an additional subwoofer.

Thank you Trebdp83 for your hones advice. You are one of the few who encouraged me with your assessment to still consider the Cinema 30. I respect everyone's opinion and that's why I'm seeking advice, some suggested I get a power amp and this will free the Onkyo from the "heavy lifting" and allow for better range and dynamics in my all-important LCR channels. It's a bit confusing, upgrade the AV Receiver or add a power amp. I have limited space.
Also the Subwoofer seems to be an issue and I'll need to replace it.

 

[everettT]

Yes I got a lot of comments on my Subwoofer and that it's the weak link in my setup. Any recommendation for a subwoofer. Is the SVS SB16 16-inches 1500W Ultra Subwoofer a good upgrade.
Any other advice on the AV Receiver, is Cinema 40 a good choice, it's cheaper than the 30.

For your room size the SB16 would work out just fine, or you're close two getting two VTF-TN1 from HSU at that price (baring sales) for a few hundred more. The dual subs will give you more flexibility with placement and response and a little more output but it's likely a tossup with your room..

 

[Trebdp83]

Thank you Trebdp83 for your hones advice. You are one of the few who encouraged me with your assessment to still consider the Cinema 30. I respect everyone's opinion and that's why I'm seeking advice, some suggested I get a power amp and this will free the Onkyo from the "heavy lifting" and allow for better range and dynamics in my all-important LCR channels. It's a bit confusing, upgrade the AV Receiver or add a power amp. I have limited space.
Also the Subwoofer seems to be an issue and I'll need to replace it.

I don’t think you will want for anything going with the Cinema 30 in that room. The upgrades from the Onkyo are many concerning audio and video capabilities. I’d consider an additional subwoofer and a PS5.

 

[greatestboss]

For your room size the SB16 would work out just fine, or you're close two getting two VTF-TN1 from HSU at that price (baring sales) for a few hundred more. The dual subs will give you more flexibility with placement and response and a little more output but it's likely a tossup with your room..

The problem is where to place the second sub, the first one next to the TV Stand on the right as seen in the pictures, the second one probably at the back next to the Center Couch.

 

[everettT]

The problem is where to place the second sub, the first one next to the TV Stand on the right as seen in the pictures, the second one probably at the back next to the Center Couch.

When it comes to low frequency and your room, specific placement can become a big hindrance. Even two SB3000s or 4000 would help with smoothing the sound but I understand your dilemma with placement. Have you ever taken measurements of your room's low frequency response?

Sorry for dragging you off the AVR discussion.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If your current AVR does everything you NEED it to do, then I don’t think you need a new AVR.

But if it is about something else you WANT, then that’s always a good reason.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Cinema 30 is great.

But I would get the (equivalent) Denon X6800 for a lot less.

 

[greatestboss]

I don’t think you will want for anything going with the Cinema 30 in that room. The upgrades from the Onkyo are many concerning audio and video capabilities. I’d consider an additional subwoofer and a PS5.

PS5 is on the way, as for the Sub the choices are limited in here

When it comes to low frequency and your room, specific placement can become a big hindrance. Even two SB3000s or 4000 would help with smoothing the sound but I understand your dilemma with placement. Have you ever taken measurements of your room's low frequency response?

Sorry for dragging you off the AVR discussion.

Unfortunately I haven't done it before, I'll need to get a microphone and a free software.

 

[PENG]

I really like the Marantz Cinema 30

Happy Holidays

The Cinema 30, in my opinion, is the best overall AVR/AVP at the moment but just in case you may not realize, the AVR-X6800H ADTG mentioned, will do exactly/or at least virtually the same. So, between the two, if the preferred look, 2 year longer warranty = $1,000 more then go for it! If you want to spend the $1,000 saved by going with the Denon, and spend it on a subwoofer upgrade, then you will most likely end up with audibly better overall sound quality, but then every time you look at the Denon you might wish you had gotten the Marantz.

The Cinema 40 is cheaper, but if you are in the USA or Canada, you have to really like the Marantz look and dislike the Denon's, otherwise the often on sale AVR-X3800H is the best value, same sound quality, almost same features, for roughly half the price.

and I was wondering if replacing my 10+ years old Onkyo will make a difference. Any other recommendations are highly appreciated.

Feature wise for sure, but don't expect audibly better sound quality unless you use RC/EQ. The Onkyo you have is well beyond the point of diminishing return.

If you do use RC/EQ, in this case Audyssey, or Dirac Live, especially if you are prepared to spend some time do some post calibration tweak, then you will get better sound quality with the AVRs you are considering, or if you want to stay with Onkyo, the RZ30 (9 channels processing only), and their higher models will do too.

Last point, a better subwoofer, such as SVS's, even if you can only place 1 in that room, will make a good difference.

 

[greatestboss]

The Cinema 30, in my opinion, is the best overall AVR/AVP at the moment but just in case you may not realize, the AVR-X6800H ADTG mentioned, will do exactly/or at least virtually the same. So, between the two, if the preferred look, 2 year longer warranty = $1,000 more then go for it! If you want to spend the $1,000 saved by going with the Denon, and spend it on a subwoofer upgrade, then you will most likely end up with audibly better overall sound quality, but then every time you look at the Denon you might wish you had gotten the Marantz.

The Cinema 40 is cheaper, but if you are in the USA or Canada, you have to really like the Marantz look and dislike the Denon's, otherwise the often on sale AVR-X3800H is the best value, same sound quality, almost same features, for roughly half the price.



Feature wise for sure, but don't expect audibly better sound quality unless you use RC/EQ. The Onkyo you have is well beyond the point of diminishing return.

If you do use RC/EQ, in this case Audyssey, or Dirac Live, especially if you are prepared to spend some time do some post calibration tweak, then you will get better sound quality with the AVRs you are considering, or if you want to stay with Onkyo, the RZ30 (9 channels processing only), and their higher models will do too.

Last point, a better subwoofer, such as SVS's, even if you can only place 1 in that room, will make a good difference.

Thanks for all the advice, "but then every time you look at the Denon you might wish you had gotten the Marantz"
That's what I don't want to regret, the Cinema 30 looks premium and really eye catching.
I'm not in the US or Canada but you'd be surprised to know that I've found the AVR-X6800H for $4,000 and the Cinema 30 for $3,730.
Also the AVC-X6700H & AVC-X4800H both for the same price $2,800 while the AVC-X4700H for $1,950 & AVR-X3800H for $1,600

So the Cinema 30 is well priced but do you recommend any of the above Denon models. Onkyo RZ30 is sold out.
I'll get the SVS SB16 to replace my DT Subwoofer SuperCube I
Unless you guys can recommend using both the SVS and DT at the same time.

 

[greatestboss]

Please note that I work in a tax free country, hence the Cinema 30 is priced at a net of $3,730

 

[greatestboss]

The Denon x3800 would be good choice and leave money for a subwoofer upgrade

Quick question. I went shopping for Subwoofer because mine is overdue a replacement based on your recommendation and other members too. I found the following

Paradigm Defiance X12
Paradigm Defiance X15
SVS SB 16
Which one is the best choice for my type of setup and room.

 

[Eppie]

ShadyJ did a review of the X15 and the X12 as well.
SB16 Ultra was reviewed a while back.

They are all well rated. Would you be able to fit two of the X12 or would you be looking at only 1 of any of these models? SVS is popular in North America partly because of their return policy and pricing. I would not recommend the cheaper Paradigm subs but when you move up to the X series the Paradigms are very capable. SVS has good extension for a sealed design and has very low distortion. Paradigm is a ported design, which is generally preferred, and also has very strong mid-bass.

Either would be a good step up from the SuperCube. The rated spec of 13Hz - 200Hz was not accurate and the -3dB point was closer to 27Hz. The X15 and SB16 both have usable output below 20Hz.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for all the advice, "but then every time you look at the Denon you might wish you had gotten the Marantz"
That's what I don't want to regret, the Cinema 30 looks premium and really eye catching.
I'm not in the US or Canada but you'd be surprised to know that I've found the AVR-X6800H for $4,000 and the Cinema 30 for $3,730.
Also the AVC-X6700H & AVC-X4800H both for the same price $2,800 while the AVC-X4700H for $1,950 & AVR-X3800H for $1,600

So the Cinema 30 is well priced but do you recommend any of the above Denon models. Onkyo RZ30 is sold out.
I'll get the SVS SB16 to replace my DT Subwoofer SuperCube I
Unless you guys can recommend using both the SVS and DT at the same time.

Then it is an easy decision for you, in the US and Canada, the Cinema 30 costs about $1,000 more when not on sale. When on sale, the AVR-X6800H had been down to C$2,999, and that would have been US$2,000!!

So, a big congratulations to you landing one of the best available AVR for $3,730 net.

For subwoofers, I know I am biased, I like SVS as a company so I would recommend the SB16-Ultra. The PB16-Ultra is much more capable but for that you will need a large room and proper space for that gigantic 175 lb.