45 and 275 @ 6'4"

[adwilk]

Well, if that's djreef in his profile picture, you guys are built a little differently. I would tend to agree with him on most points- 2200 is very low calorie for someone with so much lean mass but he probably trains really hard to keep that lean mass- but stick with what is clearly working, Alex. You're obviously comfortable and confident with it and its effective. Keep up the good work!

 

[djreef]

... but I'm an airhead.

75g of carbs for a day? That's like two french fries!

I just got through reading a 270 page book that has an additional 40 page bibliography written by a PH.D. I'm gonna stick with that but good luck with any plan you're on that works for you. I'm far from well versed on any of this but that doesn't seem like enough carbs and it seems like too rapid a weight loss.

The only reason I bring this up, is it's kinda how I make my living. I'm a CSCS and the lead staff nutritionist at the Institute for Health and Wellness in Tomball, TX. I also moonlight in the Tektoniks Lab at St Luke's Hospital's sports performance dept. Recomping folks is my business.

and yes, 2200 calories is quite low but it takes me from a pretty meaty 230 to a stripped 205 at about 8% body fat over about 6-8 weeks. Everyone is different so your mileage may vary.

DJ

 

[Alex2507]

Apparently, there's some religious debate about that last part...

No kidding ... doing stuff I like is how I got this way.

You had him, right up to the point you mentioned Bacon and Sausage

If he had mentioned the meatball I would have had to report his post as inappropriate.

The only reason I bring this up, is it's kinda how I make my living. I'm a CSCS and the lead staff nutritionist at the Institute for Health and Wellness in Tomball, TX. I also moonlight in the Tektoniks Lab at St Luke's Hospital's sports performance dept. Recomping folks is my business.

and yes, 2200 calories is quite low but it takes me from a pretty meaty 230 to a stripped 205 at about 8% body fat over about 6-8 weeks. Everyone is different so your mileage may vary.

DJ

Those are great credentials.

I thought I was doing good having lost 16 lbs in 9 weeks in between doctors visits. My total loss of 25 lbs in 3 months seemed pretty good to me also. Yesterday was a bad day for weight loss due to heavy eating and I felt like crap all day today but such is life. I actually had to sleep it off like a hangover ... and I had a little hair of the dog (bread and sauce).

I'm curious why you say I need real help. I felt like I was getting my weight and blood work results under control pretty well. I understand that out of all the diets out there this is one of them but I thought it made sense and I thought it had some favorable results from various clinical trials. I'd be interested in anybody's thoughts on it after reading the book or knowing about the particulars of the program from other sources.

Well, if that's djreef in his profile picture, you guys are built a little differently.

I always knew you were shallow.

 

[adwilk]

and yes, 2200 calories is quite low but it takes me from a pretty meaty 230 to a stripped 205 at about 8% body fat over about 6-8 weeks. Everyone is different so your mileage may vary.

DJ

Just cause I'm curious... how is your energy level in gym when your cals drop so much. I can only lose 2 or so pounds a week when I'm cutting cause I can't keep my energy up on such a deficit. I cut at around 2600 at 190 lbs and thats about as low as I can go to still finish reps in the gym.

 

[djreef]

Just cause I'm curious... how is your energy level in gym when your cals drop so much. I can only lose 2 or so pounds a week when I'm cutting cause I can't keep my energy up on such a deficit. I cut at around 2600 at 190 lbs and thats about as low as I can go to still finish reps in the gym.

It sucks, but you suck it up, and fight through. This where you lean on your supplements (thermagenics, caffeine) if you can a little harder.

DJ

 

[adwilk]

I've tried purple wrath, no explode, ECA stack and others and they all make me really light headed and dizzy- especially on leg days... To the extent that its not safe. Perhaps timing meals could be done more critically. I dont know.

 

[djreef]

No kidding ... doing stuff I like is how I got this way.



If he had mentioned the meatball I would have had to report his post as inappropriate.



Those are great credentials.

I thought I was doing good having lost 16 lbs in 9 weeks in between doctors visits. My total loss of 25 lbs in 3 months seemed pretty good to me also. Yesterday was a bad day for weight loss due to heavy eating and I felt like crap all day today but such is life. I actually had to sleep it off like a hangover ... and I had a little hair of the dog (bread and sauce).

I'm curious why you say I need real help. I felt like I was getting my weight and blood work results under control pretty well. I understand that out of all the diets out there this is one of them but I thought it made sense and I thought it had some favorable results from various clinical trials. I'd be interested in anybody's thoughts on it after reading the book or knowing about the particulars of the program from other sources.



I always knew you were shallow.

No, don't get me wrong, any progress in the right direction is good. My concern was with your doc wanting to start you on statins. Man, avoid those at all costs. You think you feel like **** now, wait til you get on those things. Granted they do work at reducing cholesterol, but the metabolic havoc they wreak is just not worth the price. Esp. when simple dietary adjustments, like reducing carb intake, and regular physical activity can fix those issues quickly.

As an example, I'm working with an older couple right now. In 6 weeks we knocked 42 lbs of of him (from 285 to 243) and lowered his total cholesterol by 57 points. She's dropped 22 lbs and lowered her number by 33 points (she didn't have as far to fall). They're contacting their PPC doc to begin reducing their meds next week. My goal is to get them off of them completely by May.

Do some research on the Paleolithic diet. It's one of a few that really work. Stay away from gimmicky crap that tells you u can eat all you want and still lose weight. I'm thinking this would be kind of obvious, given you've already been on that diet for some time without much success.

I can usually turn people around and get them heading back in the right direction in a little less than a month.

DJ

 

[djreef]

I've tried purple wrath, no explode, ECA stack and others and they all make me really light headed and dizzy- especially on leg days... To the extent that its not safe. Perhaps timing meals could be done more critically. I dont know.

Alright lay it all out. What does your intake look like on a typical day. What's your BMR and how many kcals are you cutting below this, and what calories are you cutting, and when.

DJ

 

[adwilk]

Right now, I'm eating at maintenance working out very light. Going hard in the gym and working a few hours a day on the golf game is very counterproductive. I can't afford to fatigue muscle groups while spending time on the links. It forces compensations and habits I don't feel like working around. Typically, I actually play golf 4-5 times a week for a two to three week stretch and then spend time exclusively hitting balls on the range or working on short game for a two week stretch. That two week stretch is my window for actually getting to spend time on resistance training of any kind. Even then, I take it pretty easy and eat right around maintenance. The main focus here is to work on my core and flexibility. I take extra care to protect my back, my knees, and neck. These would be the most susceptible injury areas for a competitive golfer.

Ok, thats the back story for the largest majority of the warmer weather months. Just as an FYI. For the most part I'm pretty healthy. I'm not scared to have a few beers every now and again I feel like my day to day balance of what I eat is overall pretty good.

Using HB formula my maintenance is right at 3000 calories. I hover between 185-190 at 12-13% BF.

The winter months is where I focus more on reaching targeted fitness goals. I did a 10 week bulking cycle starting last November and got to 204 and about 15% BF. My macros stay steady at 40-40-20 but I don't buy the meal frequency nonsense and don't force myself spread out small meals. 100 grams of protein comes from a shake every single day. I tried to eat 4000 calories a day.

Cutting- I backed off to 2300 to start (40-40-20) and got started on ECA stack. I've had trouble in the past with thermo and oxide boosters but thought I'd give it a shot since I could carefully calculate exactly how much of the three components I was taking. 50mg of Ephedrine, 400mg of caffeine twice daily. Crazy light headed when doing crossfit style workout. Quit taking the stuff and couldn't finish the workouts. It wasn't a matter of sucking it up, I could just tell the deficit was too much and I wasn't healthy. I know what it feels and smells like to burn lean mass and started upping calories again. As long as I got 25-2600 I could cut steadily and make my workouts efficient.

I feel really comfortable calculating my nutritional needs to reach the goals I have. Based on your size and build I was really surprised to see you eating so few calories. It clearly comes from years of conditioning and your body working really efficiently.

Thanks for the opportunity to type a really long post in Alex's thread that doesn't concern him.

 

[djreef]

Ya Alex. Sorry for the ambush.

Anyway, from you bulk to your cut the turnaround was too fast. Dropping from 3000 kcals to 2300 was way to much, esp given you were creating an even larger energy deficit with your training change of pace. The body has to have time to adjust, or things get out of whack, and you lose the ability to trick the system downward. I usually start my clients at maintenance - 200kcals, always cutting carbs

...and let me explain why.

Of the 3 macros (macro-nutrients) only carbohydrates are non-essential. You need fats and protein to survive, carbs you don't. Given that carbs are the odd man out in this vital nutrient scenario, this where we cut. Another reason why we cut here, is carbs begat carbs. Eat carbs crave carbs. They flash enter the system, they flash leave the system and leave hunger in their wake. This hunger is the number one cause that leads people off the wagon. OTOH fats and proteins in whole food form hangs with you longer. It sticks to your ribs, and makes your body use additional energy to break them down (TEF). When it leaves the system the hunger isn't as severe, and thus doesn't lead to over-eating at the next meal. Besides if you're going to cut calories low, you really want to be left with kcals that give u the most bang for the buck, nutritionally. Carbs are pro-inflamatory, and do goofy things to the metabolism, so the fewer the better. I could go on and on about what a PIA they are to folks in my line of work, but I'm sure u get the point by now. There's a reason why pro bodybuilders live on greens and tunafish before a contest.

So, my recom would be, cut slower. The folks I work with at The Institute are far from athletes, and are more metabolic patients, so I can cut them quicker. Athletes are another animal, completely. You can't be so dramatic. A proper cut in your case should be ~6 weeks, cutting initially 200 kcals (carbs) and 100 kcals (carbs) every week thereafter, until you hit your goal comp. If you can't get where you need to be within that time frame the don't bulk for so long (mini-bulk) so you don't have so far to go to get where you need to. Minimal trial and error are going be a formula until you've done it a couple of times and get it dialed in. If necessary, once you get everything stair-stepped down, then institute re-feeds at various points during the month to get things (metabolism, hormone levels) kicked back up. As far as your ECA stack - it's not necessary but it does help, esp through sticking points.

Understand though, you absolutely cannot do any of this stuff during your season. You are not a fitness competitor, so looking pretty is secondary to your game. Eat for performance, not just maintenance.

DJ

 

[Alex2507]

No, don't get me wrong, any progress in the right direction is good. My concern was with your doc wanting to start you on statins. Man, avoid those at all costs. You think you feel like **** now, wait til you get on those things. Granted they do work at reducing cholesterol, but the metabolic havoc they wreak is just not worth the price. Esp. when simple dietary adjustments, like reducing carb intake, and regular physical activity can fix those issues quickly.

As an example, I'm working with an older couple right now. In 6 weeks we knocked 42 lbs of of him (from 285 to 243) and lowered his total cholesterol by 57 points. She's dropped 22 lbs and lowered her number by 33 points (she didn't have as far to fall). They're contacting their PPC doc to begin reducing their meds next week. My goal is to get them off of them completely by May.

Do some research on the Paleolithic diet. It's one of a few that really work. Stay away from gimmicky crap that tells you u can eat all you want and still lose weight. I'm thinking this would be kind of obvious, given you've already been on that diet for some time without much success.

I can usually turn people around and get them heading back in the right direction in a little less than a month.

DJ

My doc's reasons for wanting to put me on statins was because people in general don't do anything different with their diets. When he got the blood work results back he didn't know about the weight loss which I thought was good as opposed to not having much success. (Edit: I talked the doc out of putting me on statins.) Your results with that guy losing 7 lbs a week for 6 weeks sounds great. How much time per week has he spent exercising? I'm pretty sure the Paleolithic diet has a lot in common with the Zone diet but losing more than 2 lbs a week is frowned upon. Protein intake is geared to match activity levels and is in a 3:4 ratio to carbs by gram.

I'm good with this plan as it doesn't require me to spend time in a gym and seems like it might be sustainable for an extended period of time. All I have to do is watch what I eat. There are no supplements outside of some fish oil and vitamin E. I find taking those to be a chore. Trust me, I'm not eating all I want and I get that I would benefit more from exercise. Does getting up to flip LPs count for anything?

Adwilk, my thread is your thread.

 

[djreef]

My doc's reasons for wanting to put me on statins was because people in general don't do anything different with their diets. When he got the blood work results back he didn't know about the weight loss which I thought was good as opposed to not having much success. (Edit: I talked the doc out of putting me on statins.) Your results with that guy losing 7 lbs a week for 6 weeks sounds great. How much time per week has he spent exercising? I'm pretty sure the Paleolithic diet has a lot in common with the Zone diet but losing more than 2 lbs a week is frowned upon. Protein intake is geared to match activity levels and is in a 3:4 ratio to carbs by gram.

I'm good with this plan as it doesn't require me to spend time in a gym and seems like it might be sustainable for an extended period of time. All I have to do is watch what I eat. There are no supplements outside of some fish oil and vitamin E. I find taking those to be a chore. Trust me, I'm not eating all I want and I get that I would benefit more from exercise. Does getting up to flip LPs count for anything?

Adwilk, my thread is your thread.

Ya, that's the whole reason statins were created.

Actually, the Paleolithic diet is nothing like the zone diet. Personally, I wouldn't mess with that for someone with metabolic issues, but if it's working for you at a pace you can handle, then absolutely stay with it. Unfortunately, you're going to plateau after a certain point without the physical part. It's just the way it goes. When you do shoot me a PM and we'll figure out how to get you moving again. As long as you're going in the right direction it's all good. Flipping LPs only works when you have to carry the stack up stairs each time you do it.

 

[adwilk]

so looking pretty is secondary to your game.
DJ

Actually, looking pretty is critical to my "game" just not my golf.

 

[djreef]

Actually, looking pretty is critical to my "game" just not my golf.

Werd.



Actually with my athlete clients, they're taught that how they look is merely an artifact. Performance, and injury prevention is THE priority.

DJ

 

[Adam]

Alright - you guys have inspired me to workout tonight. Odds of me actually closely counting calories and watching proportions of nutrients is low...but I gave up on being strong years ago. It's just not my natural state. It was great in college and the short years after that, but even working out as much as I did (about two hours a day, five to six days a week, for probably six to eight years), I was still no athlete. I was certainly bulkier and more cut than I am now, but I'm not like my brother who kind of naturally bulks up easily. On the flip side, dips and pull ups are pretty easy because I weigh about 130.

 

[adwilk]

Werd.



Actually with my "athlete" clients,

I play GOLF. It actually is amazing how profoundly physical the game has gotten.

 

[djreef]

I play GOLF. It actually is amazing how profoundly physical the game has gotten.

Ya, the days of looking like John Daley and being nationally/internationally ranked are over.

DJ

 

[djreef]

Alright - you guys have inspired me to workout tonight. Odds of me actually closely counting calories and watching proportions of nutrients is low...but I gave up on being strong years ago. It's just not my natural state. It was great in college and the short years after that, but even working out as much as I did (about two hours a day, five to six days a week, for probably six to eight years), I was still no athlete. I was certainly bulkier and more cut than I am now, but I'm not like my brother who kind of naturally bulks up easily. On the flip side, dips and pull ups are pretty easy because I weigh about 130.

Good for u Adam. u don't need to be overly strong with Balto's photo negative sleeping on the floor at foot of the bed.

 

[mazersteven]

I had a gym membership but didn't go and my knees probably wouldn't appreciate me running on them. Power walking is gay.

I do know that I need to elevate my heart rate for I forget how many minutes at a clip. I just tried it ... I think I just invented the 2 minute workout.

This thread has an open door policy to other fatties.

Losing weight is a "Life Style Change".

Body-for-LIFE

The Biggest Loser | NBC Official Site (good read)

If you don't like walking (boring) try bicycling. My recommendation is the Trek Pure Sport

1) Comfortable Seat
2) Upright Seating Position
3) Forward Crank/Pedals (pedal crank positioned farther forward instead of right below the seat tube) (Easy on the Knees)

Pure Sport - Trek Bicycle

 

[djreef]

Losing weight is a "Life Style Change".

Body-for-LIFE

The Biggest Loser | NBC Official Site (good read)

If you don't like walking (boring) try bicycling. My recommendation is the Trek Pure Sport

1) Comfortable Seat
2) Upright Seating Position
3) Forward Crank/Pedals (pedal crank positioned farther forward instead of right below the seat tube) (Easy on the Knees)

Pure Sport - Trek Bicycle

and very fittingly has a four leaf clover on the sprocket assembly, for when you need transportation to the tavern on St Patty's day.

DJ