Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[fuzz092888]

Well the minor tweak can be had or not had, both designs are still available to my knowledge. Del will build whatever you want. From a consumer standpoint you don't get anything more for the price increase.

Somewhere in some email I have Dennis said that Del wasn't getting enough money for the work he was doing, so that's where part of the price increase is going, how much I'm not sure. Personally I think for what I paid him (and many others) for our cabinets was a steal. Having the cabinet cost of an extremely well made speaker come to 25% of the total cost is redonkulous. Now he's just getting a bit more.

I've also been told by someone that Dennis' profit margin is insanely small. Like $100ish bucks small. How much truth there is to that only Dennis could say, but I have no problem with his profit margin increasing a bit from there. Especially now that I've gotten to spend some time with his speakers. If I had an the extra money lying around I'd get another pair at the $500 increase in a heartbeat.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't think that you read my post. I specifically mentioned that I want people to get what they are due and that I'm in no position to say what they are actually worth, only that to ME it's not worth another $500 for some angles.

I read the post. "For what? An angle on the edges?" I was just giving you my perspective. As a jerk I know once said, everyone is entitled to my opinion.

 

[KEW]

Well, the check is in the mail.
These are relatively massive speakers, so I decided to avoid dramatic grain and visually lighten them with a light colored wood - Maple.
I decided pay a little extra to go with quarter cut maple for a uniform tight grain (as opposed to the standard flat cut maple veneer). Now I get to wait a couple of months to see how that turns out.
Maple Wood Veneer,Red Maple,Silver Maple,Big Leaf Maple,Rift,plain Sliced,Quarter Cut,

Help me achieve the full benefit of these speakers!
I'm considering going analog on this system. Is that daft of me? What are your thoughts on Auddysee vs "pure direct". For now, lets assume I am running the P3's with out subs (which is what I intend to do). They go low enough to excite room modes easily enough. This will be for music only.

Cheers,
Kurt

 

[Adam]

I think that I came across wrong, regardless of the smilies. My issue, related solely to my desire to buy them, is that they were $3k yesterday and $3.5k today. I know this stuff happens, and it happens for a reason. They had introductory pricing, things got popular, they wanted to make a living, and prices went up. It's cool. From what you guys have said, they deserve to make a good profit off of these. I wish them well. I'm just not willing to pay $500 more for something that, compared to the item yesterday, has some angles on it. This is not a criticism of their price increase - it's a remark about my procrastination! Would I buy a pair today if I could have the old design for $3k? No. I'm still not ready, so it's all a moot point.

I bought my PC13-Ultra for $1400 counting shipping back in 2007 - that's why I won't buy a second one at $1700. Call it silly, it probably is...but I can't help it.

 

[Swerd]

Irvrobinson

So, are you still considering coming to worship at the House of Phil?

 

[Swerd]

Help me achieve the full benefit of these speakers!
I'm considering going analog on this system. Is that daft of me? What are your thoughts on Auddysee vs "pure direct". For now, lets assume I am running the P3's with out subs (which is what I intend to do). They go low enough to excite room modes easily enough. This will be for music only.

Although I have little experience with Auddysee (I can't spell it either), I believe Phils will not benefit, and may suffer, from that type of automated room correction.

What was your experience with the STs and Auddysee?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Help me achieve the full benefit of these speakers!
I'm considering going analog on this system. now, lets assume I am running the P3's with out subs (which is what I intend to do).

Cheers,
Kurt

What do you mean by "going analog? Vinyl? If so, then, yes, you are indeed daft.

 

[fuzz092888]

I've used audessy with my Phil's and for movies I like it, but for music I do not. I run in either direct or stereo depending on content for music.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Irvrobinson

So, are you still considering coming to worship at the House of Phil?

Yes. I had a very nice talk with Dennis, and I'm still thinking about it. I don't really have room for two systems, or need two systems, so these would replace the Salon 2s. I have no doubt that the Phil 3s are awesome speakers, but I'm still wondering if they'll actually be better than the Salon 2s. Dennis is skeptical too, though he admits he's never heard the Salon 2s. I'm hoping to eventually find someone on the west coast that has a pair. So far the closest is in Vancouver, BC, and that's too far away. I'm a see, touch, and hear-for-myself sort of guy.

 

[Swerd]

Yes. I had a very nice talk with Dennis, and I'm still thinking about it. I don't really have room for two systems, or need two systems, so these would replace the Salon 2s. I have no doubt that the Phil 3s are awesome speakers, but I'm still wondering if they'll actually be better than the Salon 2s. Dennis is skeptical too, though he admits he's never heard the Salon 2s. I'm hoping to eventually find someone on the west coast that has a pair. So far the closest is in Vancouver, BC, and that's too far away. I'm a see, touch, and hear-for-myself sort of guy.

I haven't heard the Salon 2s so I can't say anything useful. Because you already own them, replacing them with Phil 3s is a very different question than what most people face.

Very different for all of us except ADTG .

 

[KEW]

I don't think that you read my post. I specifically mentioned that I want people to get what they are due and that I'm in no position to say what they are actually worth, only that to ME it's not worth another $500 for some angles.

I got my order in before the increase, but decided to pay for the new design. The cost allocated to the new design (what I paid) was $200 (I think the slight slope of the cabinet is the greater cost than the beveled edge treatment though he is removing more wood so will not be able to rout as quickly around the edges). The other $300 is I believe an outright price increase. I am not sure if it is a reflection of an increase in the cost of components or maybe Dennis needs to charge a bit more for his bottom line to work out.

I have heard that the P1's & P2's will no longer use the Chinese cabinets and their price will go up accordingly after current inventory is depleted.

I am the same way - which is why I made sure to get my order in before the price increase. However, I suspect, at the end of the day, $3500 is still a great deal - until there is an alternate product of comparable value.

 

[KEW]

The front and rear surfaces of the bass box on the new cabinet lean backwards a bit. Its a parallelogram box instead of a rectangular box. It has the same volume inside, but it gives the appearance of protruding less into the room. I imagine its more difficult to build.

My understanding is that the rear surface will not be sloped in the future (though it was on the ones you handled).

 

[KEW]

Although I have little experience with Auddysee (I can't spell it either), I believe Phils will not benefit, and may suffer, from that type of automated room correction.

What was your experience with the STs and Auddysee?

Never tried it!

 

[KEW]

What do you mean by "going analog? Vinyl? If so, then, yes, you are indeed daft.

No, I'm old enough to remember the pops and rumble, and have better things to do than ritually clean the record and have to exchange it every 20 minutes.
I meant going with old fashioned simple analog preamp (without involving a DAC downstream of the CD player).

I'm guessing Dennis Murphy is analog.
Is that right Swerd?

 

[cpp]

No, I'm old enough to remember the pops and rumble, and have better things to do than ritually clean the record and have to exchange it every 20 minutes.
I meant going with old fashioned simple analog preamp (without involving a DAC downstream of the CD player).

I'm guessing Dennis Murphy is analog.
Is that right Swerd?

there is nothing wrong with a old fashioned simple analog preamp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was starting to convert to the church of Phil, but I can't handle a $500 increase for, what, an angle on the front edges? I'm just too cheap. Tooooo cheap.

Dennis said you can still buy the $3000 "old" cabinets.

It is $3500 only if you want the "new" cabinets.

I think the $3,000 version looks just fine to me.

Maybe Dennis should label them v.3.0 & v3.5.

 

[Swerd]

No, I'm old enough to remember the pops and rumble, and have better things to do than ritually clean the record and have to exchange it every 20 minutes.
I meant going with old fashioned simple analog preamp (without involving a DAC downstream of the CD player).

I'm guessing Dennis Murphy is analog. Is that right Swerd?

At Dennis's house, he uses mainly CDs for music with an analog preamp and also a HT system. He does have music on his computer, but generally uses that to burn CDs. He has nothing against playing music off a computer or server, but I think he wants to avoid getting into the process of setting that up.

He also owns ancient technology LPs and a turntable, but readily acknowledges the superiority of the CD.

At the CAF this weekend, he will be using a stand-alone DAC provided by AVA. He says the teeming hoards at the audio shows may ignore your speakers unless they see lots of electronic bling. The more polished aluminum and glowing lights the better.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Never tried it!

I use Stereo 2.2 w/o Audyssey or any kind of EQ.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...the teeming hoards at the audio shows may ignore your speakers unless they see lots of electronic bling. The more polished aluminum and glowing lights the better.

Look at Linkwitz Lab. Had to resort to Bryston amps, preamps, and lord knows what else just to get guys take the Orion seriously. The cold hard truth.

 

[KEW]

Although I have little experience with Auddysee (I can't spell it either), I believe Phils will not benefit, and may suffer, from that type of automated room correction.

What was your experience with the STs and Auddysee?

The reason for question is that the Phil's have low enough extension to wonder about needing EQ for bass modes. It wasn't an issue with the SongTowers, and I guess the subs I run with them are about equivalent with the Phil's bass, so I should be okay.
Sometimes you need to ask the question before you can think it through!