Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[Swerd]

Well, it would be a few hours out of the way but I just might look into this. I'm headed from the Charleston, SC area back to Missouri. I'll only have some audio gear and all my golf equipment in the car with me so this could be feasible.

Does this require an appointment, I assume? What happens if I NEEEEEED to get speakers while I'm there?

Contact info here philharmonicaudio.com

This is DM's home. It is where he designs and assembles all his stuff. (The cabinets are built elsewhere.) It is heaven for speaker junkies. Dennis is retired now, and works full time on the Philharmonics and Salk projects.

Send him an email. People often come by his house to listen.

If you NEEEEED to buy speakers immediately you may still have to wait. He doesn't have completed stock on hand that I know of, but you never know. Someone may have canceled an order just before you show up. He does have premade cabinets in stock for the Phil 1 & 2, so the wait for those is short. The Phil 3 cabinets must be made to order.

Where in Missouri are you going? A well-known speaker junkie/collector who occasionally posts here is located in Kansas City. He now or has owned a few different Salk models. Ask Dennis, he'll know who it is and what he now has.

 

[Nuance AH]

My acoustic memory probably sucks.

I think it's pretty good, but is it really?

But really, no way in hell I'm moving my 190lbs x 2 Salon2, 75lbs x 2 Orion, 85lbs x 2 Phil3, or 30lbs x 2 KEF 201/2 out of my room.

Only thing I'm moving is my body to grab a bottle of cheap $15 wine..

Always excuses with you. You're completely crippling performance, but fair enough. Pulling them out as far as possible from the others will help, though. If you want to listen seriously and get a true feel for the performance of those speakers you need to execute things properly. If you're unwilling to do that then it's only your loss. Just be prepared to take flack for it.

Like I said, though, pull the pair you're listening to out as far as you can from the back wall/other speakers. When listening to different speakers one at a time, place them in the same location, but experiment with teo-in with each (as you found, the Orion's benefit from agressive toe-in, but the Revels and Phil's may not). This method is far better than what you're doing now and will help ensure the speakers are performing as well as they can. You at least owe it to Dennis to do this; it's truer to an apples to apples comparison.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, it would be a few hours out of the way but I just might look into this. I'm headed from the Charleston, SC area back to Missouri. I'll only have some audio gear and all my golf equipment in the car with me so this could be feasible.

Does this require an appointment, I assume? What happens if I NEEEEEED to get speakers while I'm there?

Your PM box is full or something, so I could not reply, so I'll post it here since it's no big deal.

Edmond is where I went to audition the B&W 800D/802D/803D. Also Paradigm Studio 100, PSB Imagine T, Revel M22, and KEF 201/2. Of course, all on my Tuesdays off from work.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Always excuses with you.

Man, quit giving me a hard time, will you?

My speakers sound so flipping awesome already. Anymore awesomeness and I wouldn't know what to do!

It's like trying to fix perfection.

Nothing is being crippled. Life is good. Everyone just enjoy your speakers and gears. Don't waste your life worrying about every little thing.

Instead of doing all that work, which is a complete total waste of life, I'd rather watch a movie or show or listen to some music or go out with my wife and kids.

 

[GranteedEV]

One thing that is often overlooked is single speakers side by side with a mono signal (or the same signal into each speaker) with instant switching. While this will not give you any imaging or soundstage comparisons, it makes listening to different tonal qualities very easy, much easier that when in stereo mode.

I just wanted to emphasize and reiterate this ;P

 

[Nuance AH]

I just wanted to emphasize and reiterate this ;P

+1. A lot of the speaker gurus do this, especially during the design and testing phase.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I just wanted to emphasize and reiterate this ;P

Except that most people will do that by flipping the mono switch (if they have one) and switching back and forth between the two with the balance control. That will yield a totally invalid comparison unless the speakers happen to have identical sensitivities, which is not likely. The louder speaker will sound tons better. That's just the way the ear works.

 

[GranteedEV]

Except that most people will do that by flipping the mono switch (if they have one) and switching back and forth between the two with the balance control. That will yield a totally invalid comparison unless the speakers happen to have identical sensitivities, which is not likely. The louder speaker will sound tons better. That's just the way the ear works.

Right, except audioholics are not most people. Especially not the ones with two of everything "for symmetry's sake"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Right, except audioholics are not most people. Especially not the ones with two of everything "for symmetry's sake"

You're referring to that crazy son of a gun................. Nuance, right?

 

[speaker entropy]

back to Missouri.

Welcome back to the midwest. I live in Kansas City and have a pair of Phil 3s and know of another guy in town who has at least ordered Phil 2s (may have them already--haven't talked to him in a bit since mild winter requires extra yard effort
G

 

[speaker entropy]

The distance from the front of my Phil3 (midrange) to the wall is slightly over 4ft. This means the distance from the back of the top cabinet to the wall is about 3ft.

If I were to guess on paper for fun, I would say:

3ft (from back of top cab to wall) = 1/3 (33%) fill.

2ft = 1/2 (50%) fill.

And 1ft = 1/1 (100%) fill.

That sounds pretty good.

Just for fun.

Thanks for at least throwing out some 'fun' numbers as I still cannot figure out what I prefer on my Phil 3s Seems to vary with type of music, volume, my mood, wind direction....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for at least throwing out some 'fun' numbers as I still cannot figure out what I prefer on my Phil 3s Seems to vary with type of music, volume, my mood, wind direction....

If you have any doubt at all about your room, I think it's best to just fill it 100%. What you're giving up is slightly less soundstage size, but the clarity, detail, & resolution is the most important to me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Welcome back to the midwest. I live in Kansas City and have a pair of Phil 3s and know of another guy in town who has at least ordered Phil 2s (may have them already--haven't talked to him in a bit since mild winter requires extra yard effort
G

So we got Philharmonic speakers in the Big 12: Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas.

We need West Virginia, Kansas, & Iowa.

I think we have some Philharmonic speakers in Virginia, but that doesn't count.

 

[GranteedEV]

If you have any doubt at all about your room, I think it's best to just fill it 100%. What you're giving up is slightly less soundstage size, but the clarity, detail, & resolution is the most important to me.

I'm just guesstimating here, but wouldn't too much fill slightly throw off the balance? The mid in these speakers is padded down a db or two which is compensated by the reflected rear wave.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm just guesstimating here, but wouldn't too much fill slightly throw off the balance? The mid in these speakers is padded down a db or two which is compensated by the reflected rear wave.

Good question for Dennis.

As for me, it didn't throw off the balance at all when I had 100% fill. Clarity, detail, resolution was superb even with 100% Phil, I mean fill.

 

[frsimms]

If you have any doubt at all about your room, I think it's best to just fill it 100%. What you're giving up is slightly less soundstage size, but the clarity, detail, & resolution is the most important to me.

With me, having ambiance made the music much more live sounding and exciting. Music sounded much more natural and real. Live music has a natural ambiance and only in a heavily treated studio do you get the clarity that a stuffed midrange gives you.

Luckily, Dennis gives us a choice so we can both get what we want.

Bob

 

[speaker entropy]

So we got Philharmonic speakers in the Big 12: Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas.

We need West Virginia, Kansas, & Iowa.

I think we have some Philharmonic speakers in Virginia, but that doesn't count.

Actually I am in Kansas so do have that covered & remember cannot say Big 12 and Mizzou any more

Thanks to you guys on input on the amount of fill. When I got the speakers from Dennis one was really filled and the other about 1/2 way and do not remember thinking I really heard much difference--no golden ears---just outstanding quality sound with plenty of soundstage, image detail etc. The room is well treated so that likely helps. That demo disc really was a great tool for listening to a number of high quality tracks and wide range of styles and parts of the frequency range. Jennifer Warnes Way Down Deep made me happy I went with the 3s instead of 2s for music as almost sounded like had sub on (HT still use the sub)
G

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...do not remember thinking I really heard much difference--no golden ears---just outstanding quality sound with plenty of soundstage, image detail...

Agree with you 100%.

Options are always good just in case.

Some rooms are probably more affected than others.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Actually I am in Kansas so do have that covered & remember cannot say Big 12 and Mizzou any more

Thanks to you guys on input on the amount of fill. When I got the speakers from Dennis one was really filled and the other about 1/2 way and do not remember thinking I really heard much difference--no golden ears---just outstanding quality sound with plenty of soundstage, image detail etc. The room is well treated so that likely helps. That demo disc really was a great tool for listening to a number of high quality tracks and wide range of styles and parts of the frequency range. Jennifer Warnes Way Down Deep made me happy I went with the 3s instead of 2s for music as almost sounded like had sub on (HT still use the sub)
G

I always cram one full and leave the other a little empty so I can put in the CD, tweeter pads, directions, and insignias, if I every remember them. That should be enough for most tastes.

 

[jcunwired]

Good question for Dennis.

As for me, it didn't throw off the balance at all when I had 100% fill. Clarity, detail, resolution was superb even with 100% Phil, I mean fill.

I would expect soundstage to change based on fill (as you stated above), but does a different level have any effect whatsoever on clarity, detail, resolution?