Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with this KEF R900 speaker.

Does anyone like/dislike its features/design and/or specifications?
Somehow I thought you ordered a pair of R900's..
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with this KEF R900 speaker. :)
Nothing's wrong with it, but 90db sensitivity is not very <i>likely</i> to satisfy your personal requirements. Simply assuming a resistivish load it would probably take about 13a of current to drive them to reference levels in most typical scenarios... or 650w into 3.7 ohms. Matter of fact this is around 1db less sensitive than the Aperions.

A 93db/2.83v/m speaker with the same impedance profile in comparision would require 9.4a of current for the same results. That's a good bit less current, at the very least.

A Gedlee Abbey, on the other hand, could be driven to these same levels with about 4.5a of current running through it... and that's not even really the main reason i'd pick them.

Of COURSE heatsinking is a big factor too as well as driver linearity with respect to excursion (Le(X), BL(X), CMS(X) - this is what a klippel test shows) ... sensitivity/impedance alone won't tell us everything about what's going on... but they're still a big indicator. How many speakers are cruising along with big time current running through them? Not only is it more current for dynamic peaks, but it's more average current too.

That's not to say every higher sensitivity speaker is automatically better either... far from it. Sometimes that sensitivity is obtained from horns with high diffraction throats, or underdamped paper cones, or cheap "ringy" compression drivers, or in the case of Gene's RBH reference speakers, lots of drivers arrayed with an undocumented radiation pattern.

Certainly some great less sensitive speakers can sound wonderful.. maybe better... at the levels we choose to listen to them. Dynamics aren't everything. But if they're a stated criteria, then you have to be considering them.

I don't know if you'll like the KEFs... obviously this is where AUDITIONS come into the picture plain and simple!! I know I'll like the KEFs though... i'm not picky when it comes to clean, neutral, speakers :D
 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
What Speaker is This?

Take a guess how much this Speaker costs per Pair? :)

Does its FR Plot look bad, ok, good, or great?



 
psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
Another one with the post deletion! :D



This thread had some good input from a variety of audio brainiology rocketeers. :D
Thank you and sorry about that. I was trying to get ready for an interview and couldn't get my thoughts sorted out.

Yes this helps!
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Take a guess how much this Speaker costs per Pair? :)

Does its FR Plot look bad, ok, good, or great?

It looks like someone took an airbrush to it. And then photocopied it. And took an airbrush to that.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
It looks like someone took an airbrush to it. And then photocopied it. And took an airbrush to that.
This isn't the FOX network on TV w/ Air Brushes and w/ bottle "AirHead" blondies, either. Looks just way to PERFECT, eh? :)
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
No R900 Here Yet

Somehow I thought you ordered a pair of R900's..
Not one R900 here in WA. state yet? None for Grant, or ADTG, either. :-((

Give those Okies a call there in OK, and tell them you want to hear some KEF R900's?

Originally Posted by KEFAmerica View Post

Hi Everyone,
We have started to get R Series out to our dealers. I copied the information below of some dealers that have gotten theirs in. I will continue to update the information.

Sincerely,
KEF America


Safe and Sound
428 East Street
Chicopee, MA 01020
United States
413-594-6460

Elite Media Solutions
9 Forest St
Wellesley Hills, MA 02481
United States
781-237-2929

Audio Doctor
112 Sherman Place
Jersey City, NJ 07307
United States
877-428-2873

NorthCoast Audio
205 Fifth St
Eureka, CA 99501
United States
707-444-8700

House of Music SF
555 Ninth St
B-3
San Francisco, CA 94103
United States
415-255-0888

Audio Vision San Francisco
1603 Pine St
San Francisco, CA 94109
United States
415-614-1118
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
This isn't the FOX network on TV w/ Air Brushes and w/ bottle "AirHead" blondies, either. Looks just way to PERFECT, eh? :)
It just doesn't track to the LOW RES 3rd party anechoic measurements



not to mention the weak polars:

 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
It just doesn't track to the LOW RES 3rd party anechoic measurements



not to mention the weak polars:

I see, well there are TWO (ADTG and Grant) that both want to set aside the Axioms M80v3's!! Ouch... how much do you think the drivers in one box could cost if a pair is $1440 USD total?

Maybe, $300 total for all drivers/box? or for Six drivers per box around <$50 each. Don't you think economics comes into the picture, when your looking at VGT's at $1800/pr. or M80v3's at $1440/pr.?

I certainly think so... got to double down it looks like maybe KEF to me, as I always go full circle and end up back in the KEF Camp again and again.

ADTG -- is KEF any GOOD or are they just GREAT?? ;)

Have you heard the KEF's? :):D
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hey, they have been around for 30 Years, must still be making $$ then, and they are Canadian, like PSB/Paradigm/Totem/FunnyFunky Waves... etc.

UtO, now all the Axiom fanboys will beat up on ADTG [Laughing]... :eek:
I actually thought the graphs looked pretty good. But we know better than to just believe the graphs.

As long as the speakers sound great to the Axiom owners, I'm cool with that.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I see, well there are TWO (ADTG and Grant) that both want to set aside the Axioms M80v3's!!
Settle down there! I just said the graph was smoothed and the polars sucked.

I've never heard axioms. I was once 10 minutes away from ordering a pair of M60s based on the hype/advertising until I realized i could never live with something so ugly. :D
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Ah, I'm crying the VGT's just left for their next resting place... and back to my Klipsch's until something else replaces them? :(
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Settle down there! I just said the graph was smoothed and the polars sucked.

I've never heard axioms. I was once 10 minutes away from ordering a pair of M60s based on the hype/advertising until I realized i could never live with something so ugly. :D
You watch FOX, Ugh... those are the 1%'ers, I'm over on MSNBC, CBC, CNN with most of us 99%'ers. :)

Ugly, why is that? Why care, I thought you were going after ULTIMATE SOUND Quality for the least amount of Dollars. :eek:

This will get you real close to ordering them in less than 10 mins... == > Axiom speakers with RP1 - YouTube
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
ugly, why is that? Why care, i thought you were going after ultimate sound quality for the least amount of dollars. :eek:
... Ultimate sound quality + doesn't look like it's for someone in a retirement home
And it can't be ultimate sound quality if it doesn't have ultimate measurements :D
I just need a book on "How to construct supercardioids" :D

anyways when I see axioms I imagine myself on a wooden chair rocking back and forth and a shotgun to my side, while i'm knitting.


... don't ask why I'm knitting.
 
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D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
No mention of the Tannoy DC8T yet? (I, admittedly, have not heard them, but the predecessor D500 model is one of my favorite loudspeakers of its size.) $5600 MSRP, beautiful cabinets, properly controlled midrange directivity, and heritage second to none. While I must admit wondering if the modern iteration of the KEF Uni-Q, with the Tangerine waveguide and new surround, doesn't best the venerable Tannoy Dual Concentric in the 5"-8" driver range*, in addition to a much more presentable cabinet the DC8T has ports rather than passive radiators. That is an advantage in mains because ports can be plugged and the speakers run full-range, overlapping with subwoofers to provide more pressure sources in the modal region.

*One can't say beyond that, of course, because there's no 10" or 12" Uni-Q. I stop at 12 because in an A-B comparison I've found the Tannoy System 15 DMT II to be considerably rougher in the lower mids/upper treble than the System 12 DMT II. Suggesting to me that the 12" size is a happy maximum for home use.

***
Maybe Grant is right on, take a hard long look at the JBL Synthesis PRO 6332 monitors... just maybe that might be flat and dynamic enough, ***

Despite throwing the Tannoy DC8T into the ring, the JBL LSR32/LS6332 (I think only cosmetic differences between the two) would be my answer, too. I've heard the LSR32 and they are simply fantastic-sounding speakers. (Even better with the ports plugged, though one needs a decent multisub system under them then.)

The JBL monitors are voiced very similarly to the flagship Revels and have similarly even coverage over a wide angle, only they're IMO at a smarter point on the efficiency-vs.-bass extension continuum, being more efficient and smaller.

If I were to ever replace my reference mains (Tannoy System 12 DMT II guts in Nathan Funk-built ultra-low-diffraction closed boxes) with something similar in size I would likely audition these JBL's and a set of Danley Sound Labs SM96's to see which pattern works better in that room. Not that such a swap is likely; my next mains are more likely to be considerably downsized, most likely bespoke speakers using the Uni-Q from the Q900 in cabinets that look like plus-sized KEF HTS3001SE's. But that's a few years off, if I decide to do it at all.)

They're obviously considerably cheaper than the big Revels, but that's not really a fair point. Some of that is likely due to the target market, but a large part of is because their cabinets are much simpler and they use cheaper materials and finish.

SO, for 6k USD my answer would be a set of those, with the remaining ~$3k spent on the bespoke cabinets from Nathan Funk or a similarly talented artisan to fit into one's existing room aesthetic.

If aesthetics are less important, and fidelity is everything, then instead of making the LSR's pretty I would instead three subs and relevant bass processing.

-FuzzMeasure Pro 3 ($150) + Art Dual Pre ($50), Dayton EMM6 ($40),
OR, if one is OSX-deprived, Waslo Omnimic, $250 from Parts Express.

-miniDSP with Advanced 4-way plugin, $160 shipped

-Three subs of choice. One option, of course, would be to get cabinets to match one's new mains from the same artisan. Subwoofers are extremely easy to assemble. But I'm going to arbitrarily constrain the choice to currently-existing commercial products. To keep them looking the same, I'm going to go with one brand. That is, of course, totally unnecessary. The brand I picked is SVS, though others will do as well. For the main sub, one could look at the PB12-Plus. For the auxiliary subs, a pair of their Peerless XXLS12-based SB12NSD will be hard to top at $1360 shipped. (The main sub could be any number of things, but I know of no better current subwoofer value than the XXLS12-based SVS's.)

I think ribbons sound better because they have a much lower mass and also a more linear impedance and extended bandwidth.
I've personally yet to hear a ribbon that sounded like music. They all sound edgy and amusical to me, only marginally superior to domes flush-mounted on 180deg waveguides ("flat baffles"), which sound universally horrid.

(True, I never have heard the Raals, but have heard LCY, Raven, Expolinear, Aurum Cantus, Apogee, and Fountek, as well as the Eton AMT and planers by HiVi/Expolinear, BG, and Eminent Technology.)

Not to mention the vertical-axis problems endemic to line sources. Then again, I can actually hear to 18kHz or higher..

FWIW, the finest treble I've heard came from the Acapella Violon 2000's plasma-ion horn. Other tweeters I've loved include the Philips [edit - or is it the Philips-based Romanian one?] spiral planar Genesis used to use, the BMS 4590 in a 90x60 horn, Tannoys with the Tulip phase plug, and KEFs with the Tangerine phase plug.

Vandersteen Model 7's. They are simply stunning; the best I've heard.
I heard the old Vandy Model 5 in the same room as the old Tannoy D700 (10" Dual Concentric, 10" helper woofer, DMT cabinet with a beautiful cherry finish) once. It was amazing to me how poor the Vandy sounded in comparison, even though the room was designed around them.

I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with this KEF R900 speaker. :)

Does anyone like/dislike its features/design and/or specifications?
Nothing to dislike, except for the lack of attention to diffraction control in the cabinet.

One thing to consider is that some people will prefer (or to look at it another way, some rooms will benefit from) the Q900, for two reasons:
(1) its larger Uni-Q will hold pattern control lower.
(2) its larger Uni-Q may move less, and thus be a better waveguide. (Or maybe not, given that the R900's Uni-Q is presumably high-passed.)

I don't know where I personally stand on that.

For a long time I've been in the lower pattern control = better camp.

Lately I've been listening to low-diffraction speakers with wider coverage (KEF's 4.5" UniQ with Tangerine phase plug) and I dig that they image outside of the speakers' outside edges. My big Tannoys don't, nor do other speakers with pattern control down lower that I've heard. My advice is to listen to a speaker with pattern control well into the midrange, and listen to a speaker with wider but still well-controlled coverage, such as the JBL LSR32/6332, Revel flagship, or even the little KEF KHT3005SE eggs, which are astoundingly good within the inherent dynamic limits of a tiny driver in a small cabinet. I suspect preference will vary based on room configuration and "liveness."

Take a guess how much this Speaker costs per Pair? :)

Does its FR Plot look bad, ok, good, or great?
Insufficient data. One single axial point tells us almost nothing. One needs to see detailed polars, or at least a decent spatially-averaged sound power measurement.
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
DS, do you have any measured polars of the big 12" tannoy coax?
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
Not on my current HDD. (I've had them for maybe 5 years now.) From memory they're practically glass-smooth in the ~500-8kHz range in which I trust my measurements - at the time, a calibrated ECM-8000, M-Audio FireWire Solo, then FuzzMeasure 2.something) out to 45deg off axis (90deg pattern) with a narrow but fairly steep on-axis notch at the top of that range that quickly disappears, and a slight tip-up (IIRC, maybe 1.5dB/oct) rise in the 5kHz-10kHz octave. (The on-axis notch is why all of mine were over 4' off the ground, and crossfired. IMO, the listening axis of a coax should never been on-axis.)

I should take - and save - new measurements.

Interestingly, I remember the low-diffraction cabinets being only very marginally superior to the originals. However, subjectively I did find that the lower diffraction ones left my ears feeling "fresher" after a reference level blast of Shostakovich 7 than the originals.
 

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