Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

[DenPureSound]

Grant, if you have not ever heard the Aperion VGT's which I can tell you have not, they do not even come close to a stack up against the Klipsch's -- Period.

You might technically put down a Klipsch as not your top notch speaker, but it is a fine speaker for the monies, and after 50yrs. their sales show that.

So now, w/ all your technical Engr. understanding and I am not disputing that, I put the JBL PRO's up there as I knew it would catch your attention -- yes, you did bring those up a little while ago... and I did not ignore them, just was to busy with the VGT's here, and moving big boxes around w/ my old sore back.

So, now with all what you know -- and my list of requirements, please put your #1 thru #5 list together and post w/ prices for "GRANTS" TOP Picks for Front Mains. (Please do not include EMP's or Aperions, and you certainly can include the RF-7II at $2200/Pair), and keep them under $5K Max. for front pair.

 

[DenPureSound]

No hearing tests for years, but I hear all the highs w/ the Klipsch's for sure and my other halfs hearing is excellent and when she says crapola, I send things back -- she/I just did not like them at all -- as they say, no way JOSE.

See your flat out to 30kHz. +/-3dB basically, no wonder why.

I guess if I get some JBL Pro Monitors as Grant suggests, and they sound like garbage, then I will go check my hearing out, [Laughing].

Dying to see our "Expert" Grants Listing as he knows where I am trying to go to -- and that is Zenith, not Nadir.

I was telling my wife, that for the money it will be an Uphill PUSH and Heavy Lift to top the Klipsch's (approx. $1.2K) we have, unless we step up to around $4-$5K my gut is telling me, but dying to hear the KEF R900's at around $3.5K per Pair, that list for $5K.

And if all this fails, going to go with the Klipsch RF-7II's at $2.2K per Pair and just go Up the Klipsch LINEUP.

 

[GranteedEV]

Grant, if you have not ever heard the Aperion VGT's which I can tell you have not, they do not even come close to a stack up against the Klipsch's -- Period.

I definitely haven't heard the Aperions... from your comments it's definitely clear that they DO run into some serious power compression issues but the rest is all subjective.

You might technically put down a Klipsch as not your top notch speaker, but it is a fine speaker for the monies, and after 50yrs. their sales show that.

I'm not talking about technical. Anyone here even have measurements of these things? I just don't like klipsch speakers. They sound to me like an upgraded version of the McDonald's brand new drive thru window... seriously has anyone heard the new McDonald's drive through window???? It sounds like you're being ATTACKED by "Hi may I have your order"

So, now with all what you know -- and my list of requirements, please put your #1 thru #5 list together and post w/ prices for "GRANTS" TOP Picks for Front Mains. (Please do not include EMP's or Aperions, and you certainly can include the RF-7II at $2200/Pair), and keep them under $5K Max. for front pair.

The problem isn't in the measurements at this point (i've recommended you a few that are pretty low on the dynamic compression chart... JBL... Funkywaves... Geddes... JTR...). It's in your perception of balance. Because you don't seem to enjoy speakers some consider pretty neutral and that's a big game changer. It's not a knock on you but rather just your own individual reality. All the flat response in the world won't help if you need a 8khz 3db spike to experience "shimmer" etc.

If I had to recommend you anything at all under 5K, I would tell you to drive down to St. Louis for a week or two, and work together with Ryan Scott on voicing speakers with voicing that YOU love using the Beyma TPL-150 and TD10M drivers that he loves. Because at this point it's a matter of subjective preference + high end drivers. Bring your drum kit along to give him an idea of what you're trying to reproduce! It's crazy... so crazy!!!

 

[walter duque]

Walter, there ya go... what are your Front Towers there? Personally, in our opinion if you apply some serious power to a pair of fronts, and they compress/congest and smear all over themselves... I would not call that a quality speaker, but maybe some cheap Sony's from Best Buy.

Not exactly from BB. I've been using this index1company for many years even when they where called JSE Infinite Slope. They are hand made in Conneticut including the cabinets, nothing is sourced out to china. Besides at 15k I think they'll do a little better than sony or klipsch.

 

[DenPureSound]

I definitely haven't heard the Aperions... from your comments it's definitely clear that they DO run into some serious power compression issues but the rest is all subjective.



I'm not talking about technical. Anyone here even have measurements of these things? I just don't like klipsch speakers. They sound to me like an upgraded version of the McDonald's brand new drive thru window... seriously has anyone heard the new McDonald's drive through window???? It sounds like you're being ATTACKED by "Hi may I have your order"



The problem isn't in the measurements at this point (i've recommended you a few that are pretty low on the dynamic compression chart... JBL... Funkywaves... Geddes... JTR...). It's in your perception of balance. Because you don't seem to enjoy speakers some consider pretty neutral and that's a big game changer. It's not a knock on you but rather just your own individual reality. All the flat response in the world won't help if you need a 8khz 3db spike to experience "shimmer" etc.

If I had to recommend you anything at all under 5K, I would tell you to drive down to St. Louis for a week or two, and work together with Ryan Scott on voicing speakers with voicing that YOU love using the Beyma TPL-150 and TD10M drivers that he loves. Because at this point it's a matter of subjective preference + high end drivers. Bring your drum kit along to give him an idea of what you're trying to reproduce! It's crazy... so crazy!!!

Your just going to Mac way to much... stay away from that stuff.

Yes, VGT compress w/ power, but the rest is not just subjective it is Fact, and all is pointed out in one review that was right on, and it was the Home Theater Review that called a Spade a Spade, exactly... in conclusion they talked about the bottom end and top end problems, read it over as it was right on, not the AH review of which I now wonder how it made the POY award at all. First off, any co. that designs a speaker where you can not easily take off the grille, ... hello ... let's start on first base ... if that can not be handled, wouldn't you think there is a problem with the more complex stuff?

Let's just go crazy over all the data/measurements... I will know when I hear it and buy it - and when it sounds even better after a couple separators, then you know your there!!

What a fun hobby - when will one ever be Happy in this business?

I know you want me to get some JTR Quins or Triple 12's up front -- think those will sound better than the Klipsch's? Have you ever physically heard a JTR Quin or Triple 12?

I think ADTG is getting some Quins up front soon... Will wait for his review of them.

Where are all the PHIL 2 and 3 Reviews at? I have not seen any of them yet, and there are many out there now... what gives?

 

[psbfan9]

Not exactly from BB. I've been using this index1company for many years even when they where called JSE Infinite Slope. They are hand made in Conneticut including the cabinets, nothing is sourced out to china. Besides at 15k I think they'll do a little better than sony or klipsch.

Do you own speakers from this company? Which model?

I like the look of these.

62WC

 

[walter duque]

Do you own speakers from this company? Which model?

I like the look of these.

62WC

They're all from that company.

 

[DenPureSound]

Not exactly from BB. I've been using this index1company for many years even when they where called JSE Infinite Slope. They are hand made in Conneticut including the cabinets, nothing is sourced out to china. Besides at 15k I think they'll do a little better than sony or klipsch.

Heck, at $15K if they don't ... you know who has the problem!

I am trying to get there under $4K... just for Fronts... it is this journey that is so fun... but the proof is in the listening experience.

 

[GranteedEV]

I know you want me to get some JTR Quins or Triple 12's up front -- think those will sound better than the Klipsch's? Have you ever physically heard a JTR Quin or Triple 12?

I want you to get the speakers that are right for you. I think they could be an interesting option at the very least. I don't even think there's a pair of Triple 8s in Canada FOR me to audition.

My #1 suggestion to you is to make the long drive up to Half Moon Bay, BC and hear the Funkywaves Monitors, and enjoy the BC weather that is the SAME as Seattle weather but Canadianer.

They have some pretty odd looking axial measurements so I want you to check them out. See if that's the sound you're looking for... the resolution/imaging of a slightly hot planar tweeter handling everything above 1khz, the dynamics of a high sensitivity speaker, the impact of dual 8" pro woofers, and sexy aesthetics. Only thing missing is your silly arbritrary volume requirement. And since Nathan is a custom builder, you could get a tower version built of course.

 

[walter duque]

Heck, at $15K if they don't ... you know who has the problem!

I am trying to get there under $4K... just for Fronts... it is this journey that is so fun... but the proof is in the listening experience.

The jouney is never ending that's the problem. I've been lusting for a pair of these the last few years. Money is a little thight now, but where there is a will there is a way. And after my discount I can get these for a little over 6K.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think ADTG is getting some JTR Quintuple up front soon... Will wait for his review of them.

I won't buy speakers from anyone who cannot provide me with some speaker measurements. So we will see.

 

[zieglj01]

Not exactly from BB. I've been using this index1company for many years even when they where called JSE Infinite Slope. They are hand made in Conneticut including the cabinets, nothing is sourced out to china.

I have been cheking that site out, from time to time. I get the sense,
that they may have some serious sounding speakers.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Source Technologies 1.6 WC Speaker review/SourceTechnologies1.6SpeakerReview.htm

 

[GranteedEV]

I won't buy speakers from anyone who cannot provide me with some speaker measurements. So we will see.

So by the way,

FAQ

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So by the way,

FAQ

Peter Aczel already measured the Orion on The Audio Critic. I prefer 3rd party measurements anyway.

"Distortion is also very low, an example of which is shown in Fig. 3. That’s a pretty damn loud 40 Hz tone, and the second harmonic is only –43 dB (0.7%), with the third harmonic, which is more important, down to –60 dB (0.1%)"

" the Orion is flat (at least in terms of my particular frequency-response curves), wide in dispersion, deep in the bass, low in distortion, and in general picture-perfect"


http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=Default&Date=200502&blogId=1

 

[GranteedEV]

Fine you win! NOw i'll post the Orion Polars!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Fine you win! NOw i'll post the Orion Polars!!!

OK now please explain to me what we're looking for since no one else (Stereophile, NRC, HTM, Audioholic, etc.) offer this polar response.

And BTW I've been listening to the Orion all day today. The Salon2 & 201/2 were on break today. In 2.1, the Orion sound fantastic. So fantastic that I haven't even been paying any attention to them at all.

 

[GranteedEV]

OK now please explain to me what we're looking for since no one else (Stereophile, NRC, HTM, Audioholic, etc.) offer this polar response.

The graph above shows you what the reference axis looks like.

The Color graph on the side shows you how "hot" a given point is - white means it's the hottest possible response and everything else is less db than it... makes sense? So the loudest point on the graph is white of course.

The Red line is the sound power response. As you can see it's "smoothly tapering".

The black line is directivity index. In one way way it's kind of the opposite of "sound power response" - as a speaker gets more directive it'll radiate less sound power into the room.

Below, you're looking at a Polar Contour Map. The vertical dimension is the degree off from the reference axis you are. So 60 represents 60 degrees off axis. Horizontal axis is frequency. Color is described earlier. These three things tell us how much the off axis response varies from the on axis response. You can see that out to 60 degrees things are pretty uniform +/-3db staying mostly somewhere from yellow to green. Beyond 60 degrees you can see that from 1khz to 2khz the orions have an off axis narrowing of energy. It's okay that far off axis (80+ deg). Above 8khz the 1" tweeter is starting to show its directivity. A ribbon or 3/4" dome will probably look wider and sound more open for this reason.

The graph on the right is the shape of the polar pattern (I think at a single frequency = 20hz ) if you had to visualize its forward radiation "from above". You can see it's also using the color scheme thingy. JBL and Pro sound companies like this kind of polar map but I just get confused by it.

The second graph is the rearward polar response of the orion. It's a dipole, so it doesn't just radiate sound forward. Maybe it will help you figure out which exact angle behind the speaker you want to attenuate with those panels you hate.

 

[Nuance AH]

There ya go cschang - does that sound like an Ascend Tower or a Klipsch RF-7II (Big Box)?

Ahh...how big do you think the cabinet volume of the Ascend Tower's are? Their cabinets are smaller than the Salk SongTower's chief.

They probably won't hit the extreme lows of the Salons (tuned for output not extension), or the extreme highs of the Soundscapes (titanium dome tweeter)

??? The Salk SoundScapes? If so, they don't use a titanium dome, but the RAAL ribbon.

Where are all the PHIL 2 and 3 Reviews at? I have not seen any of them yet, and there are many out there now... what gives?

Ah no, there aren't "many out there now." Why do you keep trashing a speaker you've never heard but then get upset at Grant for not having heard the Aperions? You also asked me how my Salk's could sound so good with such little drivers. You've been obsessed with cabinet volume, which is pretty much a meaningless stat. What gives man? What do little drivers (smaller midrange drivers offer better dispersion, by the way) and smaller cabinets have anything to do with...well, anything?

I think it's time to take a break from all this, Dennis. You need a cool down period.

 

[GranteedEV]

??? The Salk SoundScapes? If so, they don't use a titanium dome, but the RAAL ribbon.

Which is why the JBL titanium dome won't equal it

 

[Nuance AH]

Which is why the JBL titanium dome won't equal it

Ooooohhh, you meant the JBL uses the titanium dome. Sorry, your post confused me. I thought you meant the SoundScape has the titanium dome. I should have known better; you always do your research. My bad.