DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[wshuff]

One of their latest victims is the operation in Colombia known as UniAudio which they've left holding the bag for well over 6 figures.

From early on at AV123, I was under the impression that MLS owned (or was at least part owner) of the SAC factory. In essence, I think my understanding was that his position was equivalent to what Mr. Pu is in reality. With the Columbia venture, the posts made me think that was MLS's doing. What was the real relationship? Is UniAudio still in existence? And what exactly did MLS do? Place orders for cabinets, take delivery, and then fail to pay?

 

[Stereodude]

And what exactly did MLS do? Place orders for cabinets, take delivery, and then fail to pay?

As I understand it due to whatever circumstances (exchange rate changes, mistakes in the BoM cost, etc) Uniaudio had to raise their prices to VA321 and TADG. As a result, TADG decided to accept nothing more from Uniaudio and canceled all his outstanding orders with them. This left Uniaudio holding the cost of all the WiP (work in progress) which was thousands of cabinets. Since Santiago wanted to get rid of his WiP and get some of his investment back he gave TADG firesale prices on the WiP to get rid of it and cut his losses on the "investment".

I have no idea if TADG paid Uniaudio for the cabinets / speakers he got at the firesale prices, but judging from how he hasn't paid other vendors it wouldn't surprise me if he stiffed 'em on that too.

 

[silverbullet]

I can't confirm what happened to Derek, David and Hugh really happened. I was not a witness.

Exactly. Many here knew those individuals personally and CAN (have) confirm(ed) exactly what happened. You seem to forget that Schifty has admitted to almost everything he is accused of. He will smile and lie to your face and has yet to show any remorse for his actions.

Then the company he runs buries their heads in the sand and pretend nothing has/is happening. Anyone on the forum over there that doesn't take holy communion from the Schifty one and swear their undying allegiance to him and the company, ends up with an instant ban for life. The company is shrouded in mystery and preys on new unknowing customers. Not something I can condone or be a part of, and is why many of us are disgusted with the AV products we have purchased from them, even if the products currently work.

People have every right to want Schiftys head on a platter. There are many many reasons to run from the whole company and very few reasons to stay or support them.

You said you have read this thread. It may be well worth your time taking a second look reading with your eyes open.

 

[silverbullet]

No, believe me, if a friend admitted to me he committed mulitple rapes, I would be the first to bring street justice to his ***.

I'm just a customer who owns company product and maybe a little concerned about "my" investment. It sounds selfish, but I'm sure there are many more like me? I personally don't know anyone who has been hurt by MLS and I do apologize if I have offended anyone that has.

Fair statement, and I felt the same way when Schifty was first indicted. I could care less about him and hoped he was given swift justice, but I initially wanted the company to survive ONLY for warranty sake. So, we're all a bit "selfish" in that regard, which is to be expected. Warranty is part of what we paid for.

However, after seeing how the company has handled things of late, I honestly don't care about my warranty. It's a small price to pay to rid myself of their stench. If I had warranty concerns, that would mean I would have to contact someone over there and that just isn't happening. My last correspondence with them was requesting my entire account be deleted...after I was banned for "no reason given".....

 

[Chu Gai]

From early on at AV123, I was under the impression that MLS owned (or was at least part owner) of the SAC factory. In essence, I think my understanding was that his position was equivalent to what Mr. Pu is in reality.

That was Schifter just making up stuff. He owned nothing over there. Pu gave (leased) the car he drove around in as well as the use of a place to stay. Schifter's main reason for his long trips there had little to do with business other than monkey business.

With the Columbia venture, the posts made me think that was MLS's doing. What was the real relationship? Is UniAudio still in existence? And what exactly did MLS do? Place orders for cabinets, take delivery, and then fail to pay?

AFAIK, it's the story of a person who has a love for audio and got interested in becoming more intimately involved by becoming a manfuacturer of cabinets and even finished product. What Santiago had that Schifter didn't was money and a willingness to extend Schifter credit terms. My understanding is similar to Stereodude's comments below with some minor differences. Some time ago, I'd spoken to someone who used to work at the Colorado facility and they provided a little insight. There did appear to be a royal screwup on Colombia's end with respect to how much it actually cost to build product but that didn't affect MFW's. Rather it was the X series of speakers and not necessarily all of them. When AV451 ran into the amp problem followed soon after by the raffle outings, they shut their website down. Sales were pretty much in the toilet. Colombia continued to build finished product as well as begin to amass a large amount of goods in various stages of completion. But orders for them didn't come from Colorado. I think they were told or thought the amp problem would be rectified quickly but that didn't happen. So staff had to be cut down to just about nothing. After the amps seemed to be OK, product started shipping much of it at distressed prices and much of it also distressed. Whatever UniAudio's intentions were - and a man deserves to be paid - it was by no means a quality operation that was rifled with inexperience and incompetence.

As I understand it due to whatever circumstances (exchange rate changes, mistakes in the BoM cost, etc) Uniaudio had to raise their prices to VA321 and TADG. As a result, TADG decided to accept nothing more from Uniaudio and canceled all his outstanding orders with them. This left Uniaudio holding the cost of all the WiP (work in progress) which was thousands of cabinets. Since Santiago wanted to get rid of his WiP and get some of his investment back he gave TADG firesale prices on the WiP to get rid of it and cut his losses on the "investment".

I have no idea if TADG paid Uniaudio for the cabinets / speakers he got at the firesale prices, but judging from how he hasn't paid other vendors it wouldn't surprise me if he stiffed 'em on that too.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I’m new here and by the post counts many of you are new here also. I’ve never prepaid for a product or participated in any raffles. I’ve purchased and received products from AV123 and that is the extent of my relationship.

Just curious, why the overwhelming need to be the judge, jury and executioner? The guy hasn’t been found guilty yet, where is the due process? It looks like many of you are jumping on the bandwagon and looking for a ‘pat on the back’ for fanning the fire.

Wouldn’t it be better for the company to survive and pay the debts owed? Not to mention all the current customers that may need warranty support in the years to come, I mean since most of you seem concerned about the customer.

Just my thoughts…

The best analogy I can think of and it fits really well is the Bernie Madoff situation.

Now my question to you is, should the police and investors turn a blind eye and let Bernie Madoff continue what he does if he still giving returns to his investors through his ponzi scheme?

 

[wshuff]

Chu Gai and Stereodude,

Thanks for the explanation.

And just to get the timeline right -- whatever screw-up Columbia might have made, that came AFTER MLS had started running his raffles, correct?

 

[mziegler]

That is correct.

Chu Gai and Stereodude,

Thanks for the explanation.

And just to get the timeline right -- whatever screw-up Columbia might have made, that came AFTER MLS had started running his raffles, correct?

 

[Chu Gai]

Raffles started running in 2004. The not paying people thing and all that has been going on for a while.

 

[Chu Gai]

That little Canadian Fig Newton, mfig never fails to disappoint!

mfig
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 25

no MFW manual
I had the same thing happen, but there's no reason to complain here except to perhaps try and embarrass someone for no good reason.
If you (which I'm guessing you probably did) emailed/called AV123, they (like they did with me) emailed back a complete manual in pdf form. I would be willing to do the same if you forward me your email address.
Not really an issue...

 

[andy_c]

Wouldn’t it be better for the company to survive and pay the debts owed? Not to mention all the current customers that may need warranty support in the years to come, I mean since most of you seem concerned about the customer.

This sounds like "too big to fail" .

 

[gmichael]

I am a past AV321er, but have only posted there once since the sight was shut down a while back. Let me welcome all past AV321ers and offer my condolences on the current state of affairs. I do still own a set of Mini’s that I love very much. I’m sure that most of you also own their products and share in my concerns over warranty and non-warranty replacement parts.
It’s hard to tell what will happen to their company over the next few months and years, but it doesn’t look good.
In the mean time, welcome to what can be your new home. The people here are great. Get to know them.

 

[gonk]

there's no reason to complain here except to perhaps try and embarrass someone for no good reason.

No reason to complain that a years-old product doesn't have a manual? Or that the "99% draft" is more like 49% complete - specs that are taken from a full-range unpowered speaker (complete with 87dB efficiency, 1750Hz second order crossover, and weight listed per pair), big gaps in the text, placeholder images pulled from who-knows-where, and blank spaces where a number of images are required (like an image of the amp, or performance graphs, or an image of the sub on the cover page).

Not really an issue...

Wow...

 

[silverbullet]

That little Canadian Fig Newton, mfig never fails to disappoint!

Everyone left over there now has the same attitude. If you aren't praising the product or the company, you must be a "hater" just trying to "stir the pot".

Only a matter of time before the cult commits mass suicide....

 

[Eddie Horton]

If anyone still doubts that MLS is TADG, just look at the TADG info thread. (I'm banned, but proxies are a good thing) An update with the promise of an update which hasn't happened. Kinda familiar.

 

[silverbullet]

I got a good chuckle out of Marks initial post. My favorite parts are in bold....

mmalisoff
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter
Appreciate your reply...



I too reviewed the thread in question and replied... Over the last 16 + months there have been plenty of issues (personal and otherwise)... I have addressed them as well as I care to at this moment. I'm aware of some "active participation" by those trying to hurt the company, etc. I know much more than I can say at this time - but this WILL BE addressed at a later date.
Damage Control is not required... I've replied in kind to a few folks from that thread - and YOU now... I have had 41 years doing what I do - and the bulk of my history speaks for itself and this company. Trying to "engage" further is not what I care to do - not that I don't have a ton to say - I do... but I've been asked to say little and let my actions speak for me. Next year will surely be different for me - and my reply said as much. I have some important work to do...

In closing - if you want to vote with your dollars elsewhere - then I understand that... I have not thrown out the bathwater either (nor the baby)... This company makes wonderful products and we have well in excess of 17,000 very satisfied end users... I can also surely attest to the fact that while there have surely been issues - we have stepped up in a BIG WAY and NEVER ran away from them... You'll also see that in me shortly in some places also...

More need not be said at this time... If you feel comfortable with the company and the product (1000's sold) we would gladly welcome your purchase... if not... that's simply your decision...

mls

I had some questions about speakers, but since I didn't get an answer, I started looking around here. At this point the boss sounds like Nixon and his enemies list.

I am truly uncomfortable purchasing anything from here. Bye.

 

[Chu Gai]

Well, one thing that Shifty said (Next year will surely be different for me) that seems to ring true is that he'll finally be earning an honest paycheck at some Colorado prison facility.

 

[JoshK]

I got a kick out of this post:

http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=43593

Not only does he want to buy credit, but he wants to buy credit so he can purchase a sub

 

[woofersus]

The Onix name is still on the Rockets tag..as well as the older ELT-LRS speakers I have.

I thought PU/Onix and Mark had gone their separate ways. Since they did..I find it very strange PU is still allowing the Onix designation stickers to be used at all..Perhaps it was/is some arraignment they had/have..I don't know..but..like I said..the main reason for my asking is my concerns over having an upgrade path if possible and a reliable source for parts when needed.

Mac

Pu definitely isn't currently allowing Mark to do anything. At least not intentionally. They MAY have had an agreement of some sort back 4 years ago when SAC was still building rockets for AV123, but AV123 hasn't had any affiliation with Onix since at least 2008. I don't know exactly when they split as AV123 was likely selling the rest of the Ref 1's they had in stock for a while after.

AV123 stopped putting the Onix name on the Rocket boxes at some point, and removed it from the X-series stuff a bit before that, but any continuing use of the Onix name is not ok. Certainly I understand it's not the fault of any owners of older gear that the branding is inconsistent, and it's going to be a long uphill battle to re-establish the Onix name as a separate entity, but I wanted to make it clear that that there are definitely not any ongoing agreements, and Onix has always been a completely separate company.

That said, I can understand your concern about replacement parts and such. I would assume that AV123 get's the drivers direct from the manufacturer. The vifa xt25 tweeters are easy to find, but the woofers aren't off the shelf. I think they may also built by peerless though. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) Ultimately, they will be available as long as somebody is willing to pony up for the required quantity. I have no idea whether that would continue to happen if AV123 folds. As far as an upgrade path, I'm afraid there's not a clear one. There is no similar line above the rockets, and no company will "inherit" you as a customer, unless somebody buys out AV123's designs at some point. (not a terrible idea if the price is right)

 

[Mac11700]

Pu definitely isn't currently allowing Mark to do anything. At least not intentionally. They MAY have had an agreement of some sort back 4 years ago when SAC was still building rockets for AV123, but AV123 hasn't had any affiliation with Onix since at least 2008. I don't know exactly when they split as AV123 was likely selling the rest of the Ref 1's they had in stock for a while after.

AV123 stopped putting the Onix name on the Rocket boxes at some point, and removed it from the X-series stuff a bit before that, but any continuing use of the Onix name is not ok. Certainly I understand it's not the fault of any owners of older gear that the branding is inconsistent, and it's going to be a long uphill battle to re-establish the Onix name as a separate entity, but I wanted to make it clear that that there are definitely not any ongoing agreements, and Onix has always been a completely separate company.

That said, I can understand your concern about replacement parts and such. I would assume that AV123 get's the drivers direct from the manufacturer. The vifa xt25 tweeters are easy to find, but the woofers aren't off the shelf. I think they may also built by peerless though. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) Ultimately, they will be available as long as somebody is willing to pony up for the required quantity. I have no idea whether that would continue to happen if AV123 folds. As far as an upgrade path, I'm afraid there's not a clear one. There is no similar line above the rockets, and no company will "inherit" you as a customer, unless somebody buys out AV123's designs at some point. (not a terrible idea if the price is right)

Thanks Tim..I appreciate the answer..I may wind up doing something very different with my Rockets..once parts become a issue..I've talked some to Sean and Danny and others about doing a redesign with other parts (horns & planers along with different woofers)..but getting everything to mesh is going to be the real challenge..I might be just as well off going with a different make all together when the time comes..

Mac