DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
That would be ideal, keeping the company afloat and and fulfilling past obligations. But I don't see the company's effort leaning in that direction, so you are just pissing in the wind trying to put out the flames, buddy.
Yes, I have read the threads and also the indictment. I’m not saying he’s not guilty, but you like state, wouldn’t it be ideal keeping the company afloat to fulfill past obligations?

By the way, why are you so bitter about all this?
 
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
Would your thoughts change if he personally admitted he was guilty of some of what we are talking about?
I do believe he is guilty of some what is being talked about, but that's only because I've only read what's posted on the forums. I've never personally witnessed or been part of anything spoken about concerning the company.

If he is convicted than so be it. He'll get what he deserves.
 
tesseract

tesseract

Audioholic
Yes, I have read the threads and also the indictment. I’m not saying he’s not guilty, but you like state, wouldn’t it be ideal keeping the company afloat to fulfill past obligations?

By the way, why are you so bitter about all this?
Because I have been lied to by the CEO by phone and email. Along the way, I have met and chatted with several more that have been out right screwed in a very big way, and read about many more in various forums. He has touched many lives in a very negative way.

BTW, why are you, a new poster out of nowhere, minimizing the BS and carrying a torch for said company?
 
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
Did what happened to Derek, David and Hugh not actually happen? What if MLS gets off completely because of some technicality? Then what?
I can't confirm what happened to Derek, David and Hugh really happened. I was not a witness.

I would hope if MLS is not convicted, he works to repay any debts owed.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
Yes, I have read the threads and also the indictment. I’m not saying he’s not guilty, but you like state, wouldn’t it be ideal keeping the company afloat to fulfill past obligations?

By the way, why are you so bitter about all this?
This has been hashed out here and on other forums. Everyone has their reasons....but in the end we are not the "bad guy" in all this despite what some would have you believe, one man and his greed, lies and broken promises carries the weight of that title. It was his decisions that led us down this road.

I at one point might think "keeping the company afloat" was a meaningful road to redemption but due to recent events going on over at their forum and the continued deceit I believe it will only do more harm than good IMHO.
 
tesseract

tesseract

Audioholic
I can't confirm what happened to Derek, David and Hugh really happened. I was not a witness.

I would hope if MLS is not convicted, he works to repay any debts owed.
Ok, this is really lame. Basically, because YOU cannot confirm it, WE should lay off? You are minimizing what has happened, even MLS is shaking his head at you.
 
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
Because I have been lied to by the CEO by phone and email. Along the way, I have met and chatted with several more that have been out right screwed in a very big way, and read about many more in various forums. He has touched many lives in a very negative way.

BTW, why are you, a new poster out of nowhere, minimizing the BS and carrying a torch for said company?
Ok, just asked the question and you answered. I'm not minimizing the BS or carrying a torch for the company. Why makes you perceive that?

I do have an interest in the company and that is that they warranty my product. They can't do that if they don't exist.
 
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
Ok, this is really lame. Basically, because YOU cannot confirm it, WE should lay off? You are minimizing what has happened, even MLS is shaking his head at you.
You read into things way to much. I'm not here to convince you to lay off, I'm just discussing the issue.

I don't thing you guys are the "bad guys" at all. Maybe some are jumping on the bandwagon, maybe not.

He has been indicted, right? That has impacted his situation way more than anything you can say or do at this point.
 
tesseract

tesseract

Audioholic
You read into things way to much. I'm not here to convince you to lay off, I'm just discussing the issue.

I don't thing you guys are the "bad guys" at all. Maybe some are jumping on the bandwagon, maybe not.

He has been indicted, right? That has impacted his situation way more than anything you can say or do at this point.
Discussing this topic in the manner we have has not only been an outlet for those wronged, a warning so that others might not be, but also helped lead to the indictment.

Yeah, some have jumped onto the bandwagon looking for a pat on the back. Some mud has been slung onto innocents and salt rubbed into still healing wounds. People need to keep this in mind when posting, for sure.
 
Jed M

Jed M

Full Audioholic
I can't confirm what happened to Derek, David and Hugh really happened. I was not a witness.

I would hope if MLS is not convicted, he works to repay any debts owed.
This isn't a case of he said/she said. The truth is open for anybody to see. I don't think the word "underfunded" has ever been used as much as it was in 2009. The public admittance is clearly out there, saddled with all of the corroborating first hand accounts of criminal acts. The only reason, in this case, for somebody not to be able to confirm what happened is simply because they choose not to. You can argue to what degree he is guilty, but you just simply can't argue that he isn't guilty.

Personally, I would say that in most cases where its a man who has declared his innocence that it is responsible for a society to wait to hear all the facts of the case. In other cases, like the example with Mark, I think it is downright irresponsible to let a known, self admitting criminal continue on his criminal ways. I have not seen a turn for the better over there since he has been charged. Redemption does not seem to be a major priority for him, based on his shady TADG tactics, hair trigger bannings and a Stalinist wall of silence.

Imagine if your friend was charged with multiple rapes, but swore his innocence. The responsible thing would be to wait and hear the facts in court. Now imagine if your friend admitted to multiple rapes. Would you feel he could be innocent of the actual crimes regardless of what happens in court? Would you feel comfortable letting him date unsuspecting women while waiting for trial?*

*EDIT: or ever again for that matter?
 
Last edited:
M

Mac11700

Junior Audioholic
Yes, I have read the threads and also the indictment. I’m not saying he’s not guilty, but you like state, wouldn’t it be ideal keeping the company afloat to fulfill past obligations?

By the way, why are you so bitter about all this?
Bitter about all of this...Wow...Deja vu...this sent chills down my spine when I read this..

Dude...these guys aren't bitter...even though it seems to you right now that they are..I used to think the same way..and yes..I read all of the threads too...What you don't understand right now is most are pissed off...sad,disgusted,and have feelings of being betrayed by someone they thought they knew and trusted.They have seen a place that many frequented reduced to a shambles..and different audio forums flung into battling each other..by what 1 man has said on his own forum of what he had done..Then his indictment...and what he is being charged with.Many have been lied to..or about..Many have asked hard questions and only get stonewalled or lied to when asking politely for answers..and when those hard questions were/are still asked over at Mark's house..they get their post deleted and or banned from there. Yes..many have said some bad things..on this there is no doubt..but..this is the steam vent here..is it not..Did you read what the forum says on it's title..

Talk just about anything you'd like here. Or, if you've got a beef about a manufacturer, or you just want to vent some audio steam... come on in. This is the only place you won't get in trouble for flame wars - all other places are off limits. Note: Any comments, criticisms or name calling of Audioholics should be done via PM or directed to circularfile@audioholics.com. Suggestions can be made in the 'Site Suggestions and Feedback' forum.
While it may seem a bit brash at times..if you really have bothered to read everything..then you would know "why" some seem to be the way they are and not need to ask

I do have an interest in the company and that is that they warranty my product. They can't do that if they don't exist.
Your not alone in warranty worry...You got any idea of just how much some here have spent on their gear from there..? You actually think you are alone in this and most here haven't discussed this ? It's going to be a worry if the company survives or not..no matter what you have been told or what anyone tells you. This issue isn't going to go away even if by some miracle Mark walks away from it. All won't be forgiven by a bunch of Hugs...The trust is long gone I am afraid..Close the kimono...the genie is out of the bottle...Take the red pill..

He has been indicted, right? That has impacted his situation way more than anything you can say or do at this point.
Your questions and feelings tells me you really need to research this more..Did you bother to see the date of the start post for this thread..?It was on 03-16-2009, 03:24 PM...long before any indictment was issued..

I suggest you start here on page 1 http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53755 and as I was told recently...when finished..be objective about what you have just been doing...and saying..

Mac
 
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
This isn't a case of he said/she said. The truth is open for anybody to see. I don't think the word "underfunded" has ever been used as much as it was in 2009. The public admittance is clearly out there, saddled with all of the corroborating first hand accounts of criminal acts. The only reason, in this case, for somebody not to be able to confirm what happened is simply because they choose not to. You can argue to what degree he is guilty, but you just simply can't argue that he isn't guilty.

Personally, I would say that in most cases where its a man who has declared his innocence that it is responsible for a society to wait to hear all the facts of the case. In other cases, like the example with Mark, I think it is downright irresponsible to let a known, self admitting criminal continue on his criminal ways. I have not seen a turn for the better over there since he has been charged. Redemption does not seem to be a major priority for him, based on his shady TADG tactics, hair trigger bannings and a Stalinist wall of silence.

Imagine if your friend was charged with multiple rapes, but swore his innocence. The responsible thing would be to wait and hear the facts in court. Now imagine if your friend admitted to multiple rapes. Would you feel he could be innocent of the actual crimes regardless of what happens in court? Would you feel comfortable letting him date unknowing women while waiting for trial?
No, believe me, if a friend admitted to me he committed mulitple rapes, I would be the first to bring street justice to his ***.

I'm just a customer who owns company product and maybe a little concerned about "my" investment. It sounds selfish, but I'm sure there are many more like me? I personally don't know anyone who has been hurt by MLS and I do apologize if I have offended anyone that has.
 
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
Discussing this topic in the manner we have has not only been an outlet for those wronged, a warning so that others might not be, but also helped lead to the indictment.

Yeah, some have jumped onto the bandwagon looking for a pat on the back. Some mud has been slung onto innocents and salt rubbed into still healing wounds. People need to keep this in mind when posting, for sure.
I respect that...
 
K

Kraftwerks

Enthusiast
MAC11700

The "why are you bitter" comment wasn't directed towards everyone just tesseract. He seemed peaved about my post.

I'm not a company forum member and fairly new to the whole audio world, but I did see your post about replacement parts not being available and you were pretty upset. That wasn't very long ago, why would you care so much about not being able to get replacements, but not care if the company folds?
 
D

DOJ

Enthusiast
A quick 10 minute google search of those screennames plus AV123 reveals an interesting result. If you include Cujobob and Silverbullet, according to my rough count, and also including I couldn't find anything for aurthurdent, these banished members accounted for a whopping 24,852 posts or almost 1200 posts per person banned. That is 21 posters making 25,000 posts on a forum with 685,000 posts.

Typical trouble making trolls...
I had over 14,000 posts over there until I started deleting threads I created. Like the NFL one . I wanted no assosiation with that place. I supose if I were to add my 2 cents over there I would be added to the ban list.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I’m new here and by the post counts many of you are new here also. I’ve never prepaid for a product or participated in any raffles. I’ve purchased and received products from AV123 and that is the extent of my relationship.
Some who post here may be relatively new to this particular website, but they're not new to posting or to the events that surround AV451 and it's president, Mark Schifter. Myself, I'm not a raffle contributor and have never bought nor owned any product ever sold by them. But if you're new here and new to the whole AV451 saga, you might want to kick back some and just read a lot more of this thread. As it stands, you're kind of coming in at the end of the movie. We've all seen it.

Just curious, why the overwhelming need to be the judge, jury and executioner? The guy hasn’t been found guilty yet, where is the due process? It looks like many of you are jumping on the bandwagon and looking for a ‘pat on the back’ for fanning the fire.
Due process with respect to the government is coming but that doesn't preclude folks from indpendently coming to their own conclusions. Again, people are not jumping on any bandwagon. No one has been coerced into thinking in a particular way. Virtually everyone that posts here has been following matters for a very long time and are known personalities elsewhere.

Wouldn’t it be better for the company to survive and pay the debts owed? Not to mention all the current customers that may need warranty support in the years to come, I mean since most of you seem concerned about the customer.

Just my thoughts…
That would be nice if they were capable of being a well run company but they're not. Aside from the raffles, they have demonstrate an inability to pay their suppliers, employees, partners, and personal loans. They owe millions. They've defrauded their customers and left many with refunds owed that will never get repaid. With respect to their products, there has been an ever increasing willingness to source components from the cheapest and most inept places imaginable. That is how they've stayed in business and that's a large reason why they're in the predicament they're in. One of their latest victims is the operation in Colombia known as UniAudio which they've left holding the bag for well over 6 figures.
 
Last edited:
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Ok, just asked the question and you answered. I'm not minimizing the BS or carrying a torch for the company. Why makes you perceive that?

I do have an interest in the company and that is that they warranty my product. They can't do that if they don't exist.
If you bought a sub, you can be fairly certain that it will develop problems down the road. If you bought speakers you might want to try and find out if the drivers are still available and get a couple of spares. Otherwise, sell them and buy from a company that's more reputable.
 
S

SlushPuppy

Audioholic Intern
FWFW, I just deleted every thread I started over there. Felt good :cool:
 
droht

droht

Full Audioholic
Kraftwerks, I think a lot of people generally felt like you do for a while. The idea that it was best not to call out mls and av123 so they could "make things right" seemed logical to many at one point. Unfortunately I think most everyone saw the light eventually, certainly when the indictment came down if not before then.

There is a history. Genesis Audio, Audio Alchemy, av123 (Perpetual Tech).

Here is a link regarding end of Genesis. http://www.stereophile.com/news/11223/

I can't seem to put my finger on the same kind of info about AA, but someone else likely can. My guess is that av123 was going away with or without a thread like this one. The level of public outcry may hasten their demise, but it also will likely save more folks from being sucked in.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top