Obama snubs our greatest ally

avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Human nature is what makes criminals.
I suggest you read the literature (rather than making wild conjecture) about tested theories of crime. This would allow for an actual grasp of the causes of crime and recidivism.
 
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Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I think you mean the current system in the UK, where the public owns the liability, and the corporations own the profit :(.
Not quite. I'm thinking of a word that describes a socialist government with central control of the economy and that allows private ownership of corporations and property.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Not quite. I'm thinking of a word that describes a socialist government with central control of the economy and that allows private ownership of corporations and property.
China......
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
What I don't understand is that while we know some of the people who denied that FNMA and FDMA were headed toward a crisis and claimed that not lending to low income people is racist, they aren't being held responsible, in any way. We have a duty to hold their feet to the fire when they do the wrong things, but all we do is ***** and argue about it in forums like this. Congress has done the wrong things for a long time and we just don't seem to know what to do about it.
Exactly. Congress owns the root cause of the financial collapse. But the Bush administration screwed up the bailout when they switched their stake to an equity position instead of buying and holding the toxic assets. This led us to a recession. I fear Obama's own version of a bailout will lead us to a prolonged depression.

Somebody tell the powers-that-be that the toxic assets, blessed by congress and held by the banks, are the real root of the this mess and removing these assets from circulation is the solution.
 
unreal.freak

unreal.freak

Senior Audioholic
Bush at least received benefit of the doubt... for what it is worth, if McCain would have been president I would have been just as vocal about giving the guy a chance.
Fair enough..... :p
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
China......
Interesting reply but not quite what I was thinking about, although we could see China move in this direction, from the opposite starting position of the US. China is still very much communist but has what they call special economic zones, essentially just havens of commerce with communist china.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Politics sucks and has no place on this forum it happens every time politics is brought up. Buckeye nut has always been trying to stir it up here with political statements and blurbs like the OP. I am out ,but everybody else should be too..IMO of course:D Mike C where are ya buddy......:eek::p
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I want to give you a word that describes a socialist economy where the government controls the market but assets are still held in private hands. You won't like that word so I shall not say it but that is the current direction the U.S. is heading.
Ok, I'll just post it up. From Wikipedia: cut and paste not necessarily in order.

Fascist economies are typically in between laissez-faire capitalist and statist socialist economic systems.[citation needed] Unlike laissez-faire capitalist systems, fascist economies involve significant government intervention such as regulations, objectives, and nationalization of certain enterprises.[citation needed] Unlike statist socialist systems, fascist economies for the most part protect the right of private property and allowed significant independence for private free enterprise except in areas deemed vital to the national interest where private enterprise was not able to meet economic expectations of the state, in which such enterprises are nationalized.[citation needed]

Fascist governments nationalized some key industries, managed their currencies and made some massive state investments.[citation needed] Fascist governments introduced price controls, wage controls and other types of economic interventionist measures.[115] Other than nationalization of certain industries, private property was allowed, but property rights and private initiative were contingent upon service to the state.[116]

Fascism staunchly opposes many capitalist tenets, such as minimal government intervention, support of free trade, free international movement of capital, and individualism.[citation needed] Fascism opposes communism for its promotion of a classless world society. The communist suppression of small business enterprises was considered a threat to a strata of society that tended to be fascism's major supporters.[citation needed]

Fascist governments exercised much less influence over the economy that that of communist-led states, in that private property remained largely free from government interferance.[103] Nevertheless, like the Soviet Union, fascist states pursued economic policies to strengthen state power and spread ideology, such as consolidating trade unions to be state or party-controlled.[104]
Does anybody else see elements of this definition emerging in the American political/economic system?
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Is this what looking for?
Nice, but what I'm seeing started long before Obama. I started paying attention in the last few years, with the growing influence of the Department of Homeland Security, citizen border patrols, gov't equity positions in banks, congress telling automakers how to run their business, etc. There has even been talk of nationalizing banks. American nationalism at home and American pressing for it's own interests abroad has never been greater.

Obama's only contribution to date has been the socialization of the nation. But it does fit with the theme I've been developing.
 
unreal.freak

unreal.freak

Senior Audioholic
Politics sucks and has no place on this forum it happens every time politics is brought up. Buckeye nut has always been trying to stir it up here with political statements and blurbs like the OP. I am out ,but everybody else should be too..IMO of course:D Mike C where are ya buddy......:eek::p
Thats like saying people should only work hard from the time they wake till the time they sleep, no play or leisure. This is the Steam vent. Also this is one of the most civil political threads ive seen. Why would you encourage a mod to lock this? If you dont want to participate....simply dont. As for the rest of us, were just talking a little and trying to learn something about other people and their thought process.

I enjoy the occasional thread started by Buckeyenut :D
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Jamie gripes but he is drawn ... ;)

The only thing better for him would be a thread on how Martian Mind Control is gonna get
Britney Spears appointed are the next War of Lord. :D:confused::eek:

Mind Control Mechanism in Beta stage. :)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Good points about SUVs (we call them "Chelsea Tractors" here). I wasn't claiming that all yanks drove SUVs (but you all wear checked trousers and loud shirts, right? ;)).

Seriously, my point was about the use of 'crusading' language as a justification for action, rather than to honestly explain the real motives. There are many more reasons for the invasion of Iraq than the oil (leverage with the Saudis, scaring the Syrians and Iranians, nice juicy contracts for Cheney's mates, to name just a few).
Checked? Nah, I like paisley in opposite colors, like reg/green, orange/blue, yellow/purple, etc. Preferably with a nice plaid shirt. I be stylin'!:D

They rattle their sabres, we rattle guns. Not much difference, when you think about it. Our side makes money on the contracts, they make money on oil.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I suggest you read the literature (rather than making wild conjecture) about tested theories of crime. This would allow for an actual grasp of the causes of crime and recidivism.
Poverty is a huge factor, but the vast majority of people will want what someone else has, and/or something they can't have. The act is justified by the person committing the crime, but it's still a crime. As a victim of multiple thefts, starting with seeing that guy riding away on the Schwinn Sting Ray that I bought with money I earned doing odd jobs when I was in 6th grade, three more bikes, two cars, a box full of the tools I used for my job, damage to cars, identity theft and some car stereos, I don't hate the "race" of people who took from me just because of those examples. I lived in the North side of Milwaukee for quite a while and some of my friends didn't really like coming to my house. With a few exceptions, I really liked my neighbors, but the area is extremely prone to people coming in, robbing, burgling, dealing drugs, the occasional murder and lots of property crimes.

Theories are OK, but living in that area was more informative, IMO.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Not quite. I'm thinking of a word that describes a socialist government with central control of the economy and that allows private ownership of corporations and property.
Is that a seven letter word starting with 'F'?

Edited to add that I posted this before I scrolled down to see the Wikipedia entry. I felt pretty smart, for a while.:cool:
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
The theme "you've" been developing :eek: :D
Words have defined meanings. I didn't invent the definition of the word. I've been watching the political economic situation in the US unfold and certain key features, some of which I listed, are falling in line with that particular definition.

It's been my observation that people are keen to vote away their freedoms, usually under the guise of voting away their neighbor's freedoms. Perhaps you think it cannot happen in the US. Maybe you're right, maybe not. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Call me a canary in the coal mine or call me crazy...it's no difference to me.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Words have defined meanings. I didn't invent the definition of the word. I've been watching the political economic situation in the US unfold and certain key features, some of which I listed, are falling in line with that particular definition.

It's been my observation that people are keen to vote away their freedoms, usually under the guise of voting away their neighbor's freedoms. Perhaps you think it cannot happen in the US. Maybe you're right, maybe not. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Call me a canary in the coal mine or call me crazy...it's no difference to me.
The first income tax was presented to the American voters as a tax on only the wealthiest 2%, and the politicians basically told them "What do you care? It's only 2% of the population and it's not you.". Any time Congress sticks their toe in the door, the rest of their body won't be far behind.

What you said about vigilance is what I meant when I said that we need to watch them every time they say they're doing things for us. When they say 'for', they usually end up meaning 'to'.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Theories are OK, but living in that area was more informative, IMO.
Theory is not some magical idea rooted in whimsy, any theory that is useful (policy making being the key area for a discussion on deviance) is rooted in study of the exact situations the theory is about. So, a widely accepted sociological theory on crime or deviance would be backed by scientific rigor, far more generalizability and use than 'living in that area'.

The root causes for the crime isn't as you say the want of others goods per say, it is far more deep than that. You just have a superficial view based on experience. Think about it, did you sit down and have a candid discussion with the specific perpetrators asking why they broke the law? Did you search through their life history to find out what lead them down the path? etc..

For examples of such theory I suggest looking into Sampson and Laub's [Modified] Age-graded theory. This theory was first developed then tested on a matched sample of 500 delinquents and 500 non-delinquents over the course of 63 years. Informative is an understatement with such an monumental task.

For an opposing view look into a General Theory of Crime by Gottfredson and Hirschi.
 
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