On Trump

[Dude#1279435]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

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No issue here. It's just hypocrisy. Vance did it to Trump too.

 

[Mikado463]

That’s you in the picture?

duhhh, you are truly laughable

 

[highfigh]

I figured I'd let your post marinate over the weekend, just in case you wanted to edit it before I responded.

I'm not sure if you're considering the bigger picture. Whether they were alive or not at the time, there are people longing for the days when:

• Women stayed in the kitchen and people of colour knew their place.
• Clergy, teachers, coaches and parents didn't sexually abuse kids...except they did, but nobody wanted to talk or hear about it.
• Women didn't get abortions...except they did...in back alley "clinics".
• People rarely divorced...because where else was an abused wife gonna go?
• The gays stayed in the closet and didn't have annual parades.

My use of the word "may" wasn't meant to cast doubt on the veracity of your assertion that conditions in your area used to be better. It just means that whatever is going on in Milwaukee - for better or worse - can't be taken as representative of conditions in the US as a whole.
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The thing is, that's not nationalism. Nationalism tends to be quite chauvinistic - people get put into groups and some people are "in" while others are "out". And, the in-group tends to assign itself the authority to decide who is in and who is out. While nationalism can be a unifier to get people singing from the same song sheet, it invariably creates its own problems.



Why do you think I have a problem with people behaving better? LOL! I know you're an intelligent person, so I'm disappointed that you present a cherry-picked statistic as if it reflects overall national trends.


What? So, now the US isn't so bad after all?

None of this ^ has anything to do with my post. But, now that you brought knife crime up...
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The little fishing village I grew up in was never very large. Crime wasn't an issue, because everyone knew each other, making it difficult to get away with anything. You say people didn't lock their doors when you were growing up. Well, when I was growing up, people didn't even bother knocking and just walked right in!

I've lived in the Halifax area for the past 40 years. While there has been a recent uptick in the crime rate, it's still far below what it was 25 years ago.
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That said, many people around here have the "feeling" that crime is worse than it used to be. I blame social media and sensationalized newscasts for that.

I have never commented on any of those details- it should have been clear that the crimes being committed and the actions/decreased quality of people are where I have problems.

I have also made it clear that I was commenting about Milwaukee, not the nation- while I have been in many parts of the country, I wouldn't dare to comment about their crime stats to the same extent I do about MKE.

In the past:

- Kids stayed in school and tried to achieve good grades
- People worked, usually hard. They didn't sit on their asses and avoid it until a certain piece of legislation was passed. (don't shoot me, look at the data)
- Theft wasn't much of a problem until about 1967 and it hadn't really spread to the outlying areas but OTOH, the outlying areas were still farms. We didn't need to lock everything.
- People DID divorce, but it wasn't blabbed publicly unless they were celebrities- locally, it was spoken of more quietly, with much more shock.
- Small crimes actually shocked people- extreme crimes weren't common and those made people faint. A few were as bad as the worst that happen now but it wasn't made known nationwide for quite awhile.
- The media verified their statements with at least two extra sources- the closest most people came to social media was a 'party' telephone line or the bulletin board at a grocery or drug store
- People generally observed traffic laws and while some would have driven faster, they didn't because car handling made that unsafe but they also didn't want to die- that doesn't seem to be a concern, now.

In a country with an ever-growing population due mainly to immigration (the birth rate in most Western countries has been dropping for a long time), problems will come with the immigrants. Your fishing village may have had a few, but because everyone else knew each other and cared about the place, any problems with outsiders would have been short-lived. You all cared about the community, but here, people talk about 'the community', but I don't know how that word applies when so many rob, kill and do so many bad things to each other, on their own block.
Now, people don't care that they're breaking laws, they're in it for themselves.

I'm not saying this was Mayberry, but the city where I was raised didn't have problems coming from outside- if we had, and I already posted that the PD had a total of seven officers for three shifts), news of it would have spread in the little local newspaper.

I blame the media- everything has to be "You'll only hear it on WXXX", "Live, Local, Late-breaking" and rather than helping, the news crews stand by to record the events. Nationally, sensationalism is king and it's more an attempt at entertainment than news reportage.

 

[Trell]

duhhh, you are truly laughable

That’s you in a nut shell.

 

[GO-NAD!]

That’s you in a nut shell.

 

[haraldo]

I can't take BOJO's opinion seriously about anything.

he did lots of crazy stuff but when it comes to Ukraine, somehow I trust him there

But I very much hope for: NOT TRUMP

 

[isolar8001]

 

[highfigh]

I would like to think that not being hit in a vital place would cause someone to be a bit humble, but that's not part of his demeanor. Maybe his wife can use this as a wake-up call and if this scared her enough and IF she doesn't want to lose him (well, ya know), she would tell him "Lighten up, Francis". Most people, even the most arrogant, might think "Wow! That was close!", rather than "See? I really AM bulletproof".

His reaction surprised me- I would have expected him to cower in fear- real bullets and all, but he held his composure far better than I would have expected.

Even if he backs off a little, it would be a good thing.......



OK, I'm awake now.

 

[JerryLove]

In the past:

- Kids stayed in school and tried to achieve good grades

Graduation rates for HS have been rising over the past 25 years: https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/education/k-12-education/avg-freshman-cohort-grad-rate-public/

Indeed: they have been rising over the past 100 years: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_104.10.asp

So kids today stay in school at a rate higher than at any point in recorded history (in the US)

- People worked, usually hard. They didn't sit on their asses and avoid it until a certain piece of legislation was passed. (don't shoot me, look at the data)

The amount of goods and services per person have increased every year for at least the last half century: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-per-capita

- Theft wasn't much of a problem until about 1967 and it hadn't really spread to the outlying areas but OTOH, the outlying areas were still farms. We didn't need to lock everything.

Thefts have reduced 59% in the US since 1993 https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/

The property crime rate in 2019 was 0.021 per capita
The property crime rate in 1966 was 0.024 per capita

So it's lower now than it was then: https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

- People DID divorce, but it wasn't blabbed publicly unless they were celebrities- locally, it was spoken of more quietly, with much more shock.

I'm not sure how we would establish how much people talked about what. Though if you are talking only news: I suspect the 24-hour cable and internet cycle makes minor things more discussed.

- Small crimes actually shocked people- extreme crimes weren't common and those made people faint. A few were as bad as the worst that happen now but it wasn't made known nationwide for quite awhile.

The murder rate was 0.00005 per capita in 1966
The murder rate is 0.00004 per capita in 2019 (Same source as before)

- The media verified their statements with at least two extra sources- the closest most people came to social media was a 'party' telephone line or the bulletin board at a grocery or drug store

Gossip isn't new.

- People generally observed traffic laws and while some would have driven faster, they didn't because car handling made that unsafe but they also didn't want to die- that doesn't seem to be a concern, now.

Pedestrian deaths are down from 50 years ago despite far more cars and miles driven: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians#:~:text=Posted June 2024.-,Trends,their lowest point in 2009.

Do you have any data?

In a country with an ever-growing population due mainly to immigration (the birth rate in most Western countries has been dropping for a long time), problems will come with the immigrants.

Immigrants, legal or otherwise, commit crimes at a lower rate than non-immigrants. https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2024/03/immigrants-are-significantly-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-the-us-born/

Pretty much all of your data points, at least those with any hope of tying to empirical information, have proven backwards.

 

[JerryLove]

You need to listen to her speak and not just a few comments. She often makes no sense anad her statements are frequently referred to as 'word salad'. She also can't stop smiling and laughing, even when she's speaking about a terrible tragedy. While a lot of newscasters do the same, it's not OK and it's often called Schadenfreude, but it shows a lack of empathy.

Do you have examples and data to corroborate this? What example stands out the most to you in your extensive watching of her statements?

I've noticed that incoherency in Trump speeches, of course, but not in statements from Harris. Of course, I've seen more of the former than the latter.

 

[JerryLove]

Thx …. yeah, guess I don’t know enough
Actually, I hardly ever saw her in the news over here !

Shouldn't be too hard to find a full interview or speech from Harris. Don't let me or anyone else point you to specific source. Find 1-3 and watch them and judge for yourself. I do recommend watching the actual speech rather than snippets from a source that could hide or manufacture with editing.

I'm skeptical of the other poster's claim.

 

[highfigh]

Do you have examples and data to corroborate this? What example stands out the most to you in your extensive watching of her statements?

I've noticed that incoherency in Trump speeches, of course, but not in statements from Harris. Of course, I've seen more of the former than the latter.

It's easy enough to find. I thought we weren't doing whataboutisms.

 

[Trell]

Do you have examples and data to corroborate this? What example stands out the most to you in your extensive watching of her statements?

I've noticed that incoherency in Trump speeches, of course, but not in statements from Harris. Of course, I've seen more of the former than the latter.

I’ve seen those types of comments about Harris on this forum, but cannot I recall they had much to back that up, if anything.

That said, living in EU, she was unknown to me until I saw her questioning as a junior Senator during the Trump years. She did not strike me as incoherent, quite the opposite.

One memorable line of questioning was of Bill Barr:

 

[Trell]

It's easy enough to find. I thought we weren't doing whataboutisms.

Now you’re deflecting.

 

[highfigh]

Graduation rates for HS have been rising over the past 25 years: https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/education/k-12-education/avg-freshman-cohort-grad-rate-public/

Indeed: they have been rising over the past 100 years: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_104.10.asp

So kids today stay in school at a rate higher than at any point in recorded history (in the US)


The amount of goods and services per person have increased every year for at least the last half century: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-per-capita


Thefts have reduced 59% in the US since 1993 https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/

The property crime rate in 2019 was 0.021 per capita
The property crime rate in 1966 was 0.024 per capita

So it's lower now than it was then: https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm


I'm not sure how we would establish how much people talked about what. Though if you are talking only news: I suspect the 24-hour cable and internet cycle makes minor things more discussed.


The murder rate was 0.00005 per capita in 1966
The murder rate is 0.00004 per capita in 2019 (Same source as before)


Gossip isn't new.


Pedestrian deaths are down from 50 years ago despite far more cars and miles driven: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians#:~:text=Posted June 2024.-,Trends,their lowest point in 2009.

Do you have any data?


Immigrants, legal or otherwise, commit crimes at a lower rate than non-immigrants. https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2024/03/immigrants-are-significantly-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-the-us-born/

Pretty much all of your data points, at least those with any hope of tying to empirical information, have proven backwards.

I don't know how many times I have to post that my immediate concerns are local and the info I post is about Milwaukee, not the country. Maybe I should use that disclaimer at the top of every post because it's being missed by a lot of people. The crimes in Milwaukee are not typical of the country, although many places have the same problems. This place has problems that many cities have moved past. If you have heard of the Kia Boyz, they started here- has your city had one year with more than 6400 vehicle thefts? Milwaukee did, two years ago. The Milwaukee Public School System isn't succeeding, the Superintendant was fired and given a really nice severance, the board is terrible, truancy/dropout rates are high and reading/math performance are terrible. Violence HAS NOT decreased and early this morning, 9 were shot at a local park. While it's not as bad as Chicago, it's bad.

 

[Trell]

I don't know how many times I have to post that my immediate concerns are local and the info I post is about Milwaukee, not the country. Maybe I should use that disclaimer at the top of every post because it's being missed by a lot of people. The crimes in Milwaukee are not typical of the country, although many places have the same problems. This place has problems that many cities have moved past. If you have heard of the Kia Boyz, they started here- has your city had one year with more than 6400 vehicle thefts? Milwaukee did, two years ago. The Milwaukee Public School System isn't succeeding, the Superintendant was fired and given a really nice severance, the board is terrible, truancy/dropout rates are high and reading/math performance are terrible. Violence HAS NOT decreased and early this morning, 9 were shot at a local park. While it's not as bad as Chicago, it's bad.

You seem to be a victim of hasty generalization fallacy.

And when challenged with facts and reasoning you try Motte and Bailey Doctrines

 

[GO-NAD!]

I would like to think that not being hit in a vital place would cause someone to be a bit humble, but that's not part of his demeanor. Maybe his wife can use this as a wake-up call and if this scared her enough and IF she doesn't want to lose him (well, ya know), she would tell him "Lighten up, Francis". Most people, even the most arrogant, might think "Wow! That was close!", rather than "See? I really AM bulletproof".

His reaction surprised me- I would have expected him to cower in fear- real bullets and all, but he held his composure far better than I would have expected.

Even if he backs off a little, it would be a good thing.......



OK, I'm awake now.

On the other hand, he may see his "miraculous" survival of the attempt on his life as a sign that he is destined to be victorious and will vanquish his enemies. Instead of being cowed, his massive ego was actually given a boost.

 

[TankTop5]

On the other hand, he may see his "miraculous" survival of the attempt on his life as a sign that he is destined to be victorious and will vanquish his enemies. Instead of being cowed, his massive ego was actually given a boost.

Generally speaking everyone responds differently and even the same person may react differently to different near death experiences. I’ve been through multiple near death experiences from personal threats. Some still haunt me, some I barely remember while others embolden (false sense of invulnerability) me. While it serves our personal political viewpoints to assume how this may have affected Trump we really don’t know.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I don't know how many times I have to post that my immediate concerns are local and the info I post is about Milwaukee, not the country. Maybe I should use that disclaimer at the top of every post because it's being missed by a lot of people. The crimes in Milwaukee are not typical of the country, although many places have the same problems. This place has problems that many cities have moved past. If you have heard of the Kia Boyz, they started here- has your city had one year with more than 6400 vehicle thefts? Milwaukee did, two years ago. The Milwaukee Public School System isn't succeeding, the Superintendant was fired and given a really nice severance, the board is terrible, truancy/dropout rates are high and reading/math performance are terrible. Violence HAS NOT decreased and early this morning, 9 were shot at a local park. While it's not as bad as Chicago, it's bad.

The problem is that you responded to my post about observations made at the RNC with a non sequitur about the good old days in Milwaukee.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Generally speaking everyone responds differently and even the same person may react differently to different near death experiences. I’ve been through multiple near death experiences from personal threats. Some still haunt me, some I barely remember while others embolden (false sense of invulnerability) me. While it serves our personal political viewpoints to assume how this may have affected Trump we really don’t know.

Of course I'm not assuming that it explains his behaviour. I'm suggesting that it is a possibility. He wouldn't be the first. Hitler, after the July 1944 attempt on his life, comes to mind. And no, I am not suggesting - unlike JD Vance in a former incarnation - that Trump is comparable to Hitler.