Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[Mikado463]

So, with this news .........

US Secretly Armed Ukraine With Long-Range ATACMS Last Month | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

does it mean that Putin merely needs to take over another 90-100 miles of Ukrainian territory ??

 

[Trell]

So, with this news .........

US Secretly Armed Ukraine With Long-Range ATACMS Last Month | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

does it mean that Putin merely needs to take over another 90-100 miles of Ukrainian territory ??

You’re attracted to sites like ZeroHedge in the same way flies are attracted to dung.

ZeroHedge - Bias and Credibility

CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence.

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[Mikado463]

Ok fine, so you're saying the US did not arm them with the ATACMS missiles ? OK fine.....

Saw it in another thread, posted it FWIW.

 

[Mikado463]

Now that I got 'Trell the troll' to take the bait , damn it's fun F'in with him, here's another site for him to de-bunk .....

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/politics/us-secretly-sent-long-range-missiles-to-ukraine/index.html

 

[davidscott]

How can any American be on Russia's side in this war? I just don't get it.

 

[Trell]

Ok fine, so you're saying the US did not arm them with the ATACMS missiles ? OK fine.....

Saw it in another thread, posted it FWIW.

It is reported several places that USA did so, and Ukraine have used them already. And no, I did not click on that ZeroHedge link.

 

[Trell]

Now that I got 'Trell the troll' to take the bait , damn it's fun F'in with him, here's another site for him to de-bunk .....

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/politics/us-secretly-sent-long-range-missiles-to-ukraine/index.html

I've read that article already.

 

[mtrycrafts]

How can any American be on Russia's side in this war? I just don't get it.

They must be haters of Democracy. Crazed with power, like dictators more than freedom.

 

[Trell]

>>>On 31 March 2024, 4.2 million non-EU citizens, who fled Ukraine as a consequence of the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine that began on 24 February 2022, had temporary protection status in the EU.

At the end of March 2024, the EU countries hosting the highest number of beneficiaries of temporary protection from Ukraine were Germany (1 301 790 people; 30.9% of total EU), Poland (955 520; 22.7%) and Czechia (364 375; 8.7%).

Compared with the end of February 2024, the largest absolute increases in the number of beneficiaries were observed in Germany (+15 210; +1.2%), the Netherlands (+4 705; +4.0%) and Bulgaria (+3 475; +7.6%).

The number of beneficiaries decreased in 9 EU countries, with Czechia (-20 700; -5.4%), Sweden (-9 960; -21.5%), Austria (-9 130; -11.1%), Denmark (-5 385; -14.5%) and Poland (-1 680; -0.2%) registering the largest absolute decreases.

Data presented in this article refer to the attribution of temporary protection status based on the Council Implementing Decision 2022/382 of 4 March 2022, establishing the existence of a mass influx of displaced persons from Ukraine due to the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, and having the effect of introducing temporary protection.

On 28 September 2023, the European Council agreed to extend the temporary protection for these people from 4 March 2024 to 4 March 2025. ...<<<

People under temporary protection stable at 4.2 million - Eurostat

DDN-20240508-2

ec.europa.eu

 

[Dude#1279435]

How can any American be on Russia's side in this war? I just don't get it.

Easy. Watch Tucker Carlson.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Was watching Breaking Points with guest John Mearsheimer. Some of his ideas are a bit out there IMO. The idea it was NATO expansionism that caused the invasion. Also, and off-topic, that it is Palestine that wants a two-state solution with Israel. Also, that Israel is committing genocide in the current war mmkay. Anyone with a good understanding of international politics can chime in. Anyway, reddit etc is a good place for comments.....

Do you agree with John Mearsheimer's complex view of the Ukraine war as well as his view that China is a bigger threat than Russia?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/zvfpon

I appreciate you actually providing a proper response.

1 the US and NATO directly antagonized Putin by opening up closer relations with Ukraine.
2 Putin is a crypto fascist who didn't want to play nice so he invaded to stop this expansion in what he considers his turf.

I believe this is an oversimplification of the escalating tensions between Ukraine and Russia that were kicked off by the Maidan Revolution which ousted Russia-friendly Viktor Yanukovych, who was hugely unpopular in Ukraine by the time he left office. The Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea happened very soon after this, spurred by pro-Russia protests in Crimea. It was after the Crimean Annexation that US/NATO and Ukraine relations began opening up, with increased aid from the US alongside open support beginning in 2014.

-----------------------------------------

the US and NATO directly antagonized Putin by opening up closer relations with Ukraine.

Why does Russia care if Ukraine joins NATO? If they’re 1) not scared of a NATO invasion of Russia and 2) don’t plan on invading Ukraine, then there’s no reason at all for them to feel “antagonized” by Ukraine joining NATO.

The idea of NATO launching an unprovoked invasion of Russia is so detached from reality that I don’t even believe anyone believes this.

The reason Russia opposed Ukraine joining NATO is because it was always Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine. If NATO didn’t exist, Russia would have already invaded Poland and the Baltic states.

Russian apologists exclusively spout vague babble when discussing this. Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to join NATO “because they’d be in the western sphere of influence” or “because Russia would be surrounded by NATO” or “because Russia feels threatened.”

All meaningless nonsense. What real-world consequences would Russia be suffering today if Ukraine joined NATO in 2008? Absolutely none. It wouldn’t harm Russians in any conceivable shape or form. The only difference would be that they wouldn’t be able to invade Ukraine. That’s what this is all about.

 

[Oddball]

This is obviously extremely complex and sensitive topic. My 2 c...

No wonder Ukrainians wanted to break free from the Russian boot and join NATO, as well as also help themselves by joining EU to stop corruption and get some proper governance in time. But they did that knowing that they might be going to war, and were still brave enough to do it. I do understand them and that is why many wars happened in the past - because large part of population decided they will take the chance and have guts to do it.

NATO and EU position here is unclear. They must have known that they are provoking Russia and putting Ukraine closer to war. But on the other hand, they were catering to the legitimate request from Ukrainian people. Pushing Russia to its economic limits has proved beneficial once in the past and caused the fall of the whole Eastern Block. It was a great achievement although unclear if timing was what was expected, but definitively the course that was taken was meant to achieve it sooner or latter.

So was this policy just doubling up on the prior success? Probably. But the scenario is completely different and more complex. Eastern Block was much larger organisation that was much more difficult to control and broke from inside, not in the war. Russia still seems under pretty tight grip and breaking it might cause all kind of havoc. This includes providing sufficient support to Ukrainians to fully win the war and take the Russians out to their lands. I don't see this ending in any safe way except that Russians do a coup and get rid of Putin and the rest of his party, all with military support where no nukes would accidentally be fired in any direction. Chances of positive outcome are increasing with time and economic strain on Russia, but at the same time chances of Putin doing something stupid and outrageous are as well.

It's a bloody big stakes poker game. BTW I live in EU some 300 miles from Ukraine.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Putin is willing to kill 1,000 of his own people every day just to feed his ego.

>>>May was a particularly deadly month for the Russian army in Ukraine, with an average of more than 1,000 of its soldiers injured or killed each day, according to U.S., British and other Western intelligence agencies.

But despite its losses, Russia is recruiting 25,000 to 30,000 new soldiers a month — roughly as many as are exiting the battlefield, U.S. officials said. That has allowed its army to keep sending wave after wave of troops at Ukrainian defenses, hoping to overwhelm them and break through the trench lines.<<<

Russia Sends Waves of Troops to the Front in a Brutal Style of Fighting

More than 1,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine were killed or wounded on average each day in May, according to NATO and Western military officials.

www.nytimes.com

 

[GO-NAD!]

Putin is willing to kill 1,000 of his own people every day just to feed his ego.

>>>May was a particularly deadly month for the Russian army in Ukraine, with an average of more than 1,000 of its soldiers injured or killed each day, according to U.S., British and other Western intelligence agencies.

But despite its losses, Russia is recruiting 25,000 to 30,000 new soldiers a month — roughly as many as are exiting the battlefield, U.S. officials said. That has allowed its army to keep sending wave after wave of troops at Ukrainian defenses, hoping to overwhelm them and break through the trench lines.<<<

Russia Sends Waves of Troops to the Front in a Brutal Style of Fighting

More than 1,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine were killed or wounded on average each day in May, according to NATO and Western military officials.

www.nytimes.com

I would suggest that it's more than just ego - it's also self-preservation. If Russia loses in Ukraine, he also loses personally.

 

[haraldo]

I would suggest that it's more than just ego - it's also self-preservation. If Russia loses in Ukraine, he also loses personally.

WHEN ruzzia loses the war in Ukraine, putin is probably a dead man walking, and he knows it!

 

[haraldo]

These are the latest numbers I do have from the Ukrainian side, from June 24!
535.000 ruzzians killed since the start of the war, at the moment we are at 1300 per day

source: https://t.me/liveukraine_media/22114

 

[mtrycrafts]

These are the latest numbers I do have from the Ukrainian side, from June 24!
535.000 ruzzians killed since the start of the war, at the moment we are at 1300 per day



source: https://t.me/liveukraine_media/22114

Yep, they have plenty of criminals to get rid of.
And now the North Koreans are coming to the slotter.

 

[haraldo]

Yep, they have plenty of criminals to get rid of.
And now the North Koreans are coming to the slotter.

yeah, they are getting a free ”get out of jail card”
murderers and other serious criminals with zero organizational skills are not great soldiers!

no surprise they call it ”the meat grinder”

 

[mtrycrafts]

yeah, they are getting a free ”get out of jail card”
murderers and other serious criminals with zero organizational skills are not great soldiers!

no surprise they call it ”the meat grinder”

And cannon fodder.

 

[Mr._Clark]

This guy (John Mark Dougan) is a real piece of work.

>>>Mr. Dougan, 51 [former deputy sheriff in Palm Beach County, Fla.], who received political asylum in Moscow, is now a key player in Russia’s disinformation operations against the West. . . . Mr. Dougan has built an ever-growing network of more than 160 fake websites that mimic news outlets in the United States, Britain and France. . . . The fakes have recently included a baseless article on a fake San Francisco Chronicle website that said Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, had smuggled 300 kilograms of cocaine from Argentina. Another false narrative appeared last month in the sham Chronicle and on another site, called The Boston Times, claiming that the C.I.A. was working with Ukrainians to undermine Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign.<<<

Once a Sheriff’s Deputy in Florida, Now a Source of Disinformation From Russia

In 2016, Russia used an army of trolls to interfere in the U.S. presidential election. This year, an American given asylum in Moscow may be accomplishing much the same thing all by himself.

www.nytimes.com

The BBC has also reported on him. The Bugatti story apparently went viral.

>>>A network of Russia-based websites masquerading as local American newspapers is pumping out fake stories as part of an AI-powered operation that is increasingly targeting the US election, a BBC investigation can reveal.

A former Florida police officer who relocated to Moscow is one of the key figures behind it.

It would have been a bombshell report - if it were true.

Olena Zelenska, the first lady of Ukraine, allegedly bought a rare Bugatti Tourbillon sports car for 4.5m euros ($4.8m; £3.8m) while visiting Paris for D-Day commemorations in June. The source of the funds was supposedly American military aid money.

The story appeared on an obscure French website just days ago - and was swiftly debunked.<<<

A Bugatti, a first lady and the fake stories aimed at Americans

A former US police officer runs an AI-powered network of misleading news sites turning its sights towards November.

www.bbc.com