Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
So, with this news .........


does it mean that Putin merely needs to take over another 90-100 miles of Ukrainian territory ??
You’re attracted to sites like ZeroHedge in the same way flies are attracted to dung. ;)


1714067737047.png
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Ok fine, so you're saying the US did not arm them with the ATACMS missiles ? OK fine.....

Saw it in another thread, posted it FWIW.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Ok fine, so you're saying the US did not arm them with the ATACMS missiles ? OK fine.....

Saw it in another thread, posted it FWIW.
It is reported several places that USA did so, and Ukraine have used them already. And no, I did not click on that ZeroHedge link.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
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>>>On 31 March 2024, 4.2 million non-EU citizens, who fled Ukraine as a consequence of the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine that began on 24 February 2022, had temporary protection status in the EU.

At the end of March 2024, the EU countries hosting the highest number of beneficiaries of temporary protection from Ukraine were Germany (1 301 790 people; 30.9% of total EU), Poland (955 520; 22.7%) and Czechia (364 375; 8.7%).

Compared with the end of February 2024, the largest absolute increases in the number of beneficiaries were observed in Germany (+15 210; +1.2%), the Netherlands (+4 705; +4.0%) and Bulgaria (+3 475; +7.6%).

The number of beneficiaries decreased in 9 EU countries, with Czechia (-20 700; -5.4%), Sweden (-9 960; -21.5%), Austria (-9 130; -11.1%), Denmark (-5 385; -14.5%) and Poland (-1 680; -0.2%) registering the largest absolute decreases.

Data presented in this article refer to the attribution of temporary protection status based on the Council Implementing Decision 2022/382 of 4 March 2022, establishing the existence of a mass influx of displaced persons from Ukraine due to the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, and having the effect of introducing temporary protection.

On 28 September 2023, the European Council agreed to extend the temporary protection for these people from 4 March 2024 to 4 March 2025. ...<<<

 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Was watching Breaking Points with guest John Mearsheimer. Some of his ideas are a bit out there IMO. The idea it was NATO expansionism that caused the invasion. Also, and off-topic, that it is Palestine that wants a two-state solution with Israel. Also, that Israel is committing genocide in the current war mmkay. Anyone with a good understanding of international politics can chime in. Anyway, reddit etc is a good place for comments.....

Do you agree with John Mearsheimer's complex view of the Ukraine war as well as his view that China is a bigger threat than Russia?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/zvfpon

I appreciate you actually providing a proper response.

1 the US and NATO directly antagonized Putin by opening up closer relations with Ukraine.
2 Putin is a crypto fascist who didn't want to play nice so he invaded to stop this expansion in what he considers his turf.
I believe this is an oversimplification of the escalating tensions between Ukraine and Russia that were kicked off by the Maidan Revolution which ousted Russia-friendly Viktor Yanukovych, who was hugely unpopular in Ukraine by the time he left office. The Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea happened very soon after this, spurred by pro-Russia protests in Crimea. It was after the Crimean Annexation that US/NATO and Ukraine relations began opening up, with increased aid from the US alongside open support beginning in 2014.

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the US and NATO directly antagonized Putin by opening up closer relations with Ukraine.
Why does Russia care if Ukraine joins NATO? If they’re 1) not scared of a NATO invasion of Russia and 2) don’t plan on invading Ukraine, then there’s no reason at all for them to feel “antagonized” by Ukraine joining NATO.

The idea of NATO launching an unprovoked invasion of Russia is so detached from reality that I don’t even believe anyone believes this.

The reason Russia opposed Ukraine joining NATO is because it was always Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine. If NATO didn’t exist, Russia would have already invaded Poland and the Baltic states.

Russian apologists exclusively spout vague babble when discussing this. Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to join NATO “because they’d be in the western sphere of influence” or “because Russia would be surrounded by NATO” or “because Russia feels threatened.”

All meaningless nonsense. What real-world consequences would Russia be suffering today if Ukraine joined NATO in 2008? Absolutely none. It wouldn’t harm Russians in any conceivable shape or form. The only difference would be that they wouldn’t be able to invade Ukraine. That’s what this is all about.
 
O

Oddball

Audioholic Intern
This is obviously extremely complex and sensitive topic. My 2 c...

No wonder Ukrainians wanted to break free from the Russian boot and join NATO, as well as also help themselves by joining EU to stop corruption and get some proper governance in time. But they did that knowing that they might be going to war, and were still brave enough to do it. I do understand them and that is why many wars happened in the past - because large part of population decided they will take the chance and have guts to do it.

NATO and EU position here is unclear. They must have known that they are provoking Russia and putting Ukraine closer to war. But on the other hand, they were catering to the legitimate request from Ukrainian people. Pushing Russia to its economic limits has proved beneficial once in the past and caused the fall of the whole Eastern Block. It was a great achievement although unclear if timing was what was expected, but definitively the course that was taken was meant to achieve it sooner or latter.

So was this policy just doubling up on the prior success? Probably. But the scenario is completely different and more complex. Eastern Block was much larger organisation that was much more difficult to control and broke from inside, not in the war. Russia still seems under pretty tight grip and breaking it might cause all kind of havoc. This includes providing sufficient support to Ukrainians to fully win the war and take the Russians out to their lands. I don't see this ending in any safe way except that Russians do a coup and get rid of Putin and the rest of his party, all with military support where no nukes would accidentally be fired in any direction. Chances of positive outcome are increasing with time and economic strain on Russia, but at the same time chances of Putin doing something stupid and outrageous are as well.

It's a bloody big stakes poker game. BTW I live in EU some 300 miles from Ukraine.
 
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