Electric Vehicles?

[Mikado463]

FWIW and if anyone is interested, the current issue of Motor Trend has a very good article about EV charging, home hook-up, etc. It covers just about all one would want to know

 

[John Parks]

Interesting take from ex Saab engineers:

 

[Mikado463]

interesting, I see he mentions 'mud & water' in the testing of the hub motor. I wonder how well it would hold up in good old fashioned Upstate NY winters with copious amounts of rock salt on the roads ?

 

[John Parks]

interesting, I see he mentions 'mud & water' in the testing of the hub motor. I wonder how well it would hold up in good old fashioned Upstate NY winters with copious amounts of rock salt on the roads ?

Did you get to the frozen part?

 

[Mikado463]

Did you get to the frozen part?

yes, but fz water is nothing compared to salt and water !

 

[Swerd]

"Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles."

"Keiji Kaita, president of the Japanese auto firm’s research and development center for carbon neutrality, said the company had developed ways to make batteries more durable and believed it could now make a solid-state battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less."

Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mikado463]

not only would the advancement in range and charging times be huge, a sizable weight reduction is a big plus for tire mileage and wear and tear on the highways and byways !

 

[Verdinut]

"Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles."

"Keiji Kaita, president of the Japanese auto firm’s research and development center for carbon neutrality, said the company had developed ways to make batteries more durable and believed it could now make a solid-state battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less."

Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes

www.theguardian.com

In energy, nothing is created and nothing is lost, everything is transformed in some other energy, right?

I'm having trouble believing that we are going to be able to recharge that new more powerful Toyota battery in 10 minutes or less. What kind of power source would be required? 600 volts and how many amps if Lavoisier's law is exact. 240 volts and 200 amps or more? IMO, that would imply a very expensive charging station installation that most people won't be able to afford.

 

[Swerd]

In energy, nothing is created and nothing is lost, everything is transformed in some other energy, right?

I'm having trouble believing that we are going to be able to recharge that new more powerful Toyota battery in 10 minutes or less. What kind of power source would be required? 600 volts and how many amps if Lavoisier's law is exact. 240 volts and 200 amps or more? IMO, that would imply a very expensive charging station installation that most people won't be able to afford.

I also was surprised at this announcement from Toyota. It was from their Research & Development labs, and is not (yet) a mass produced battery or EV. Present day batteries are large heavy lithium ion batteries. What Toyota is working on is called a solid-state battery. I know nothing else about them other that what was in Toyota's press release. We'll see how it progresses.

Present day EV chargers come in basically two flavors, Level 2 and Level 3. The so-called Level 2 chargers, like I've installed in my garage, are 240 Volts AC capable of delivering 50 Amps of current. They are said to be rated at 11 kW. To fully charge my Volvo EV with a 75 kWh battery, they take roughly 7-8 hours. They're alright for most home charging duties, other than a road-trip.

On the road, a Level 3 charger, also known as a Fast DC charger, is needed. They require a large commercial installation capable of rectifying 3-phase AC power into high voltage direct current. Most are 480 Volts DC, and are capable of delivering up to 100 Amps, rated as 150 kW. More recently, there are 350 kW chargers capable of 1,000 Volts DC and 500 Amps. These Fast DC chargers can charge my EV in less than an hour. And needless to say, they cost money to use.

If Toyota can build a lighter, smaller, solid-state battery, that is more potent than the lithium ion batteries in today's EVs, and can be recharged faster, the world will beat a path to their door. Stay tuned.

 

[Swerd]

Here's Solid-State Batteries 101:

Solid-state battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lovinthehd]

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW might want to check out the new series Downey's Dream Cars on Max/HBO Max or whatever the f it is now.

 

[TLS Guy]

UK government has introduced new guidelines for electric vehicles involved in accidents. There have been serious fires from these vehicles at repair facilities with a lot of collateral damage. These fires burn hot, and fire services can not put them out.

So the new guideline say vehicles have to go to quarantine centers and spaced at least 15 meters apart for a week, before going to the body shop.
The insurance industry says this will require a huge increase in insurance premium. So these centers will only accommodate 100th of the cars of conventional storage spaces.

Although guidelines they will in effect have the force of law, due to costly payouts from law suits in the event of collateral damage.

 

[GO-NAD!]

UK government has introduced new guidelines for electric vehicles involved in accidents. There have been serious fires from these vehicles at repair facilities with a lot of collateral damage. These fires burn hot, and fire services can not put them out.

So the new guideline say vehicles have to go to quarantine centers and spaced at least 15 meters apart for a week, before going to the body shop.
The insurance industry says this will require a huge increase in insurance premium. So these centers will only accommodate 100th of the cars of conventional storage spaces.

Although guidelines they will in effect have the force of law, due to costly payouts from law suits in the event of collateral damage.

My mechanic will not allow an EV in his shop, due to safety concerns.

 

[Verdinut]

My mechanic will not allow an EV in his shop, due to safety concerns.

It's either that or he is not interested in learning how to service them.

 

[TLS Guy]

It's either that or he is not interested in learning how to service them.

There probably is nothing that a mechanic who is not part of a dealership can do with an electric vehicle. It would be very dangerous for one thing, due to high voltages. We have two hybrid Toyotas, and local shops can do oil, filter, tires front and and brake work and that's it. Voltages on these vehicles are just over 400 Volts. That is a bad nip.
So if these vehicles are in an accident I think it will be hard to find a body shop to touch touch them.
I understand that EVs and even hybrids, do not tolerate going though flood water. If you do it is either totaled by damage or resulting fire. Again they are inclined to catch fire after being involved in floods. Because of this our insurance premiums on our vehicles have gone up $400 a year for each vehicle.

I have been worried about this, as we all know electricity and water are a bad and also dangerous combination. Baring some huge advances in battery technology and don't see this ship staying afloat. I think the Germans are right that we need to press ahead with synthetic fuels. VW, announce a halt to production of EVs as there has been a precipitate drop in demand. People seem to be reverting back to liquid fuel due to publicized problems. EV vehicles in Europe are now close to 16%. That is enough to uncover the problems.

 

[GO-NAD!]

It's either that or he is not interested in learning how to service them.

He just thinks they are a fire hazard.

 

[Verdinut]

He just thinks they are a fire hazard.

For that matter, cellphones and laptops can also be also fire hazards and we universally use them.

 

[TLS Guy]

For that matter, cellphones and laptops can also be also fire hazards and we universally use them.

The trouble is like a lot of the current population you can't scale. The average electric car battery holds 60 KW hours. That is enough to power the average home for two days. Some will be more and some less. An electric pickup holds 90 KWH.

A cell phone battery hold 8 watts hours, so about 1000 times less power. Get the scale of the problem now? Then we get to providing all that power. The governor of Minnesota wants to ban the sale of gas and diesel vehicles by 2030. That is six and a half years away. The electric power companies told him that would require five times the power generation and the distribution system will also have to be increased five fold. They said that the state, and especially the cities, will be covered with power lines. There is no way this could even by built out in six years. This all when coal power stations have all been shuttered and gas ones proposed to be shuttered and some have. Our nuclear power stations are past their cell by date, and already having problems. No new ones are planned in Minnesota. If they were the '"interference industry" would go apoplectic and demonstrate. One thing I do know you will not power that lot on windmills and solar panels. None of these plans ever get close to generating the power the proponents claim before building out. They also have no base load capacity. If anyone thinks that can be provided by batteries they are psychotic.

The fact is we have all got caught with our collective pants down. I highly doubt we will solve this in anything close to the time required. It will all run right into first amendment rights and stall. I fear this actually could become fertile ground for revolution.

Someone needs to do the accurate math. Politicians and the public need hard facts, however unpalatable.

 

[TLS Guy]

"Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles."

"Keiji Kaita, president of the Japanese auto firm’s research and development center for carbon neutrality, said the company had developed ways to make batteries more durable and believed it could now make a solid-state battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less."

Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes

www.theguardian.com

That is impractical BS. At 400 volts that would take a charging current of 1800 amps to provide that amount of energy in 10 minutes. Now scale that up to a service station charging even 10 cars, and you have 18,000 amps just to one service station. The total impracticality of people who should know better is just astounding.

That would require the Rolls Royce approach to literally place a nuclear power station on every block. I'm serious about this. They actually have working models of such developed from the power plants of nuclear submarines, in which they are a world leader. It might be a good plan if it were not a terrorists paradise. I think every other job would be as an armed security guard.