Electric Vehicles?

[j_garcia]

This old argument for nuclear reactors as a carbon-free source of electricity keeps coming back. Yes, it generates no carbon dioxide, but it's as bad an idea now as it was 40-50 years ago.

• These newly designed reactors may actually be much less failure prone than those older models. But they all generate radioactive waste.
  
  
• What stopped development of the nuclear power industry was politics. No one wants the highly radioactive waste material that all nuclear reactors generate buried in their state. No one could be elected governor of any state who proposed storing radioactive waste in his state. What was literally radioactive became politically radioactive. This is still true today, and that article ignored the subject.
  
  
• Never trust Oliver Stone's opinion on this subject. He may know about making movies, but on most or all other subjects, he's best ignored.

Yep. Chernobyl was 1986, almost 40 years. Only about 4250 more years before people can semi-safely inhabit it.

 

[3db]

I was born and have been living most of my life in the greater Montreal area, and in my whole life I've never experienced any brownout. Are you mixing up power outages and brownouts? Actually, I've never heard of brownouts occurring in Quebec.

Brownout vs. Blackout: What’s the Difference? | NEC Co-op Energy

Let’s take a closer look at blackouts and brownouts to see why they are used, and what makes each one different. Learn more here.

neccoopenergy.com

Rolling Blackouts: What They Are and How to Prepare for Them

Call us at 866-550-1550. Let’s take a look at how rolling blackouts work, and whether you can expect them to impact the power grid in your region.

justenergy.com

 

[Verdinut]

Rolling Blackouts: What They Are and How to Prepare for Them

Call us at 866-550-1550. Let’s take a look at how rolling blackouts work, and whether you can expect them to impact the power grid in your region.

justenergy.com

Do you have rolling blackouts in Ontario? In Quebec, we have a lot of electricity and we normally supply part of it to some of the north east US states. Last yer, Hydro-Québec signed a contract to supply power to New York state. In exceptional situations, when the demand is to get higher than what is available, Hydro-Québec will purchase it from one of those states thus avoiding the need to roll blackouts so far.

 

[ryanosaur]

@j_garcia and I can probably speak to the rolling blackout situation pretty well... but it's not been that big a deal to me in Wine Country.
I think J is down the Peninsula and maybe could be affected more due to population density?
???

But the grid management bureau sets it up so that it is temporary at each "outage block" and is only supposed to last for an hour as they work their way through blocks to offset the load on the grid.

I personally haven't noticed a sever uptick in my electricity usage just because I have an EV, now. I also charge after midnight (according to Clapton's advice... ) so it is Off-Peak and not taxing the grid. Everyone gets this advice from the state and the Electric Companies... now whether they GET IT or not... *shrugs

In my experience, it is the Air Conditioning that really taxes the grid, along with everyone being home after work, cooking and doing chores as needed. And they say DST is supposed to help out by giving us extra daylight and pushing the hottest part of the day later in the actual day... ...and continue to spew BS claims about how it saves energy.

Regardless, claiming EVs tax the grid any more than anything else we humans do is frankly bordering on the ludicrous. I can think of many worse things than EVs when it comes to this: Data Centers, Crypto Currency... Oh... and fcuking HUMANS in general . Don't even get me started on Cannabis cultivation.

Anyway, that's getting more socio-political than I care to, so I'll drop that line...

Cheers!

 

[Swerd]

I personally haven't noticed a sever uptick in my electricity usage just because I have an EV, now. I also charge after midnight (according to Clapton's advice... ) so it is Off-Peak and not taxing the grid. Everyone gets this advice from the state and the Electric Companies... now whether they GET IT or not... *shrugs

I have noticed an uptick on electricity usage only because my electricity bill shows a bar graph of daily use. It's easy to see when I charge the car up.

FWIW, I learned the electricity rates where I live can be a fixed rate no matter what time of day, or rates that vary with peak & off-peak hours. Right now, I'm on the fixed rate. It's not at all clear if I would benefit by switching to the peak/off-peak rates. The electric company also varies its fixed & peak/off-peak rates in the winter & summer, charging more in the summer when AC use is widespread.

In my experience, it is the Air Conditioning that really taxes the grid, along with everyone being home after work, cooking and doing chores as needed. And they say DST is supposed to help out by giving us extra daylight and pushing the hottest part of the day later in the actual day... ...and continue to spew BS claims about how it saves energy.

Agreed, air conditioning is by far the biggest use of electricity at home. And because of some recent highly misleading propaganda, people actually believe electric heat pumps are more efficient at cooling during the summer than AC !?!

Yes, daylight savings time is a FRAUD. The term 'daylight savings time' was made up by political lobbyists who were petitioning congress to adapt DST. Ever since the 1930s, Big Oil has known that people drive their cars more in the evening after dinner as long as there's daylight. Gasoline sales go up noticeably after every shift from standard to daylight time takes place. There is no savings in DST, only bigger profits from increased gasoline sales. And yes, Big Oil was paying those lobbyists.

Regardless, claiming EVs tax the grid any more than anything else we humans do is frankly bordering on the ludicrous. I can think of many worse things than EVs when it comes to this: Data Centers, Crypto Currency... Oh... and fcuking HUMANS in general .

It's interesting to me that people can argue that recharging EVs burdens the electricity grid, but fail to make the same connection when it comes to switching from natural gas- or oil-burning furnaces to electric heat pumps. (Yes, I personally know people who decided to replace a gas-burning furnace with an electric heat pump. I expect they will be unpleasantly surprised next winter as they continue to get large electric bills long after the AC season, while they start complaining about feeling chilly drafts in their home.)

Don't even get me started on Cannabis cultivation.

Today is July 1st. Maryland's new law legalizing cannabis sales takes effect today. It passed as a referendum question in the November 2022 election.

 

[cpp]

Really never noticed any usage increase when I had my Model S, but of course it was the standard Telsa charger. What is now occurring NOW from our local Power Company Fla Power and Light is they also are implementing road side charger BUT !, they are also offering home installation chargers plus the install. Don't no the cost.

"
Customers will be able to choose from two different Level 2 EV chargers.

• For full installation, we will install the charger including all electric work and permitting of a 240-volt circuit, for a hassle-free turnkey process. The program requires the circuit be installed within 10 feet of the electrical panel.
• For equipment-only installation, we will provide the charging equipment, charger mounting and hardwiring, but the customer is responsible for the electrical work and permitting associated with the addition of a 240-volt, 50-amp circuit.
• If a customer already has a previously installed 240-volt circuit, then the equipment-only installation may be elected by the customer.

 

[3db]

@j_garcia and I can probably speak to the rolling blackout situation pretty well... but it's not been that big a deal to me in Wine Country.
I think J is down the Peninsula and maybe could be affected more due to population density?
???

But the grid management bureau sets it up so that it is temporary at each "outage block" and is only supposed to last for an hour as they work their way through blocks to offset the load on the grid.

I personally haven't noticed a sever uptick in my electricity usage just because I have an EV, now. I also charge after midnight (according to Clapton's advice... ) so it is Off-Peak and not taxing the grid. Everyone gets this advice from the state and the Electric Companies... now whether they GET IT or not... *shrugs

In my experience, it is the Air Conditioning that really taxes the grid, along with everyone being home after work, cooking and doing chores as needed. And they say DST is supposed to help out by giving us extra daylight and pushing the hottest part of the day later in the actual day... ...and continue to spew BS claims about how it saves energy.

Regardless, claiming EVs tax the grid any more than anything else we humans do is frankly bordering on the ludicrous. I can think of many worse things than EVs when it comes to this: Data Centers, Crypto Currency... Oh... and fcuking HUMANS in general . Don't even get me started on Cannabis cultivation.

Anyway, that's getting more socio-political than I care to, so I'll drop that line...

Cheers!

The only ludicrous POV is the one sticking their head in the sand and ignoring facts that the demand of hydro will increase due to population and their increased use of it. Now an additional taxing or use of hydro, EVs has been added to the population. Its just in its infancy but EVs will continue to grow and add strain to an already taxed delivery system.

I'm not against EVs. But to plod along and keep adding EVs to the system without increasing/improving hydro infrastructure to keep ahead of the demand is going to cause a whole of problems down the road (no pun intended). I would also like to see a forced legislation to come up with a one plug standard going forward among all manufacturers of EV like what Europe did with cell phone charging connectors.

 

[Verdinut]

The only ludicrous POV is the one sticking their head in the sand and ignoring facts that the demand of hydro will increase due to population and their increased use of it. Now an additional taxing or use of hydro, EVs has been added to the population. Its just in its infancy but EVs will continue to grow and add strain to an already taxed delivery system.

I'm not against EVs. But to plod along and keep adding EVs to the system without increasing/improving hydro infrastructure to keep ahead of the demand is going to cause a whole of problems down the road (no pun intended). I would also like to see a forced legislation to come up with a one plug standard going forward among all manufacturers of EV like what Europe did with cell phone charging connectors.

Here is an opportunity to install solar panels for the recharging of EV batteries for some of you. That would help reducing peak demands on a city electric supply, but would also imply the need for batteries to store that solar energy.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

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We drive the 2024 Chevy Silverado EV WT, an electric work truck with 450 miles of range, 10,000 pounds of towing and lots of space for people and cargo.

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New 2024 Chevy Silverado EV Truck

 

[ryanosaur]

I don't disagree that infrastructure is woefully lacking in modernization as population and modern technology push well beyond what was envisioned as reasonable back in the 20's, 50's... whenever.

Blaming EVs for rolling blackouts is no different than blaming the hearse for your trip to the cemetery though.

I've asked my landlord about installing solar. I would love it if he would. He's go a large south facing roof that is perfect for generating electricity!

Moreover, I think Solar should be part of every new building that is constructed, along with a requirement that power companies and grid operators can no longer penalize solar owners for contributing electricity back into the grid. Likewise, It should also be pushed much more aggressively for retrofitting existing structures.
Not gonna pursue the socio-political implications of that thought process, though.

There are a lot of problems we've unintentionally created for society to deal with (and some/many that are quite intentional), but EVs and the need to charge the batteries isn't where I would put blame. At least not right now.

 

[Mikado463]

I don't disagree that infrastructure is woefully lacking in modernization as population and modern technology push well beyond what was envisioned as reasonable back in the 20's, 50's... whenever.

Blaming EVs for rolling blackouts is no different than blaming the hearse for your trip to the cemetery though.

I've asked my landlord about installing solar. I would love it if he would. He's go a large south facing roof that is perfect for generating electricity!

Moreover, I think Solar should be part of every new building that is constructed, along with a requirement that power companies and grid operators can no longer penalize solar owners for contributing electricity back into the grid. Likewise, It should also be pushed much more aggressively for retrofitting existing structures.
Not gonna pursue the socio-political implications of that thought process, though.

There are a lot of problems we've unintentionally created for society to deal with (and some/many that are quite intentional), but EVs and the need to charge the batteries isn't where I would put blame. At least not right now.

good post and I agree, regardless, we cannot let the cart get in front of the horse !

 

[3db]

I don't disagree that infrastructure is woefully lacking in modernization as population and modern technology push well beyond what was envisioned as reasonable back in the 20's, 50's... whenever.

Blaming EVs for rolling blackouts is no different than blaming the hearse for your trip to the cemetery though.

I've asked my landlord about installing solar. I would love it if he would. He's go a large south facing roof that is perfect for generating electricity!

Moreover, I think Solar should be part of every new building that is constructed, along with a requirement that power companies and grid operators can no longer penalize solar owners for contributing electricity back into the grid. Likewise, It should also be pushed much more aggressively for retrofitting existing structures.
Not gonna pursue the socio-political implications of that thought process, though.

There are a lot of problems we've unintentionally created for society to deal with (and some/many that are quite intentional), but EVs and the need to charge the batteries isn't where I would put blame. At least not right now.

Whose is blaming EV for rolling blackouts? Thats been happening 15 years ago already before the advent of EVs. I love how incorrect words are being put into the mouthes here. Talk about taking a ride in a hearse.

 

[ryanosaur]

Whose is blaming EV for rolling blackouts? Thats been happening 15 years ago already before the advent of EVs. I love how incorrect words are being put into the mouthes here. Talk about taking a ride in a hearse.

Maybe I read too deeply into your question on the previous page about whether rolling blackouts have increased due to EV adoption…
Regardless, I’m not picking on you or otherwise incorrectly putting words into others mouths.
(Is that like when David Byrne sings, “Sing into my mouth?” )
Thing is we seem to agree about some basic issues re modernizing infrastructure.
Maybe not on how we get there, but who’s counting?

 

[cpp]

 

[Swerd]

It may be some Canadian word usage that Americans don't quite get, but 3db did say the word "hydro". I take that to mean hydroelectric power, generated by water turbines and dams in rivers.

Where I live we don't have much if any hydroelectric power, only coal, gas, or nuclear driven steam generators. And, I wonder if Florida has any hydroelectric power. It's a long way from hydroelectric dams to a train-full of coal.

So … when Canadians say "hydro", do they specifically mean hydroelectric generators? Or do they use the word "hydro" as a substitute for any & all methods of generating electricity?

 

[Verdinut]

It may be some Canadian word usage that Americans don't quite get, but 3db did say the word "hydro". I take that to mean hydroelectric power, generated by water turbines and dams in rivers.

Where I live we don't have much if any hydroelectric power, only coal, gas, or nuclear driven steam generators. And, I wonder if Florida has any hydroelectric power. It's a long way from hydroelectric dams to a train-full of coal.

So … when Canadians say "hydro", do they specifically mean hydroelectric generators? Or do they use the word "hydro" as a substitute for any & all methods of generating electricity?

We do mean hydroelectric power. Close to 100% of all Quebec electricity is produced by water dams and turbines now. We once used one nuclear powered plant in Gentilly which was closed many years ago. In Ontario, I'm not to sure about the use of water dams but they definitely use nuclear power.

La Grande-1 generating station | Free tours | Hydro-Québec

Visit La Grande-1 generating station and discover the Baie-James region with our dynamic guides. It’s free!

www.hydroquebec.com

 

[Eppie]

Here is a map of hydroelectric dams in Ontario:
https://www.opg.com/powering-ontario/our-generation/hydro/
The Darlington and Pickering nuclear plants are near Oshawa on the shore of Lake Ontario. The plants are constantly being updated.
While hydro does stand for hydroelectric, it's common to use the word hydro for electricity in general terms.

 

[Verdinut]

Hydro-Québec Generating Stations:
I've just learned that they also have a few constantly operating diesel generating stations, as well as gas-fired facilities in operation only when demand is high, and hydroelectric facilities are operating at full capacity.

Generating stations - Hydro-Québec Production | Hydro-Québec

Hydroelectric generating stations, thermal generating stations and other sources of supply of Hydro-Québec Production.

www.hydroquebec.com

 

[cpp]

It may be some Canadian word usage that Americans don't quite get, but 3db did say the word "hydro". I take that to mean hydroelectric power, generated by water turbines and dams in rivers.

Where I live we don't have much if any hydroelectric power, only coal, gas, or nuclear driven steam generators. And, I wonder if Florida has any hydroelectric power. It's a long way from hydroelectric dams to a train-full of coal.

So … when Canadians say "hydro", do they specifically mean hydroelectric generators? Or do they use the word "hydro" as a substitute for any & all methods of generating electricity?

Well we had 2. The city of Tallahassee has a hydroelectric generating station on the Ochlockonee River, but of late they want to shut it down in favor of cheaper solar power. The C.H.Corn Hydroelectric Generating Station is one of only two hydropower plants in Florida. The only other hydropower dam in Florida is operated by the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers at Lake Seminole on the Apalachicola River. The problem for Fla in regards to hydro power is the state lacks sufficient long, broad rivers, and canals aren't powerful enough and the salinity in the St Johns river ( from the Atlantic Ocean) along with sea level rises and drought conditions and the impact to organisms, wetlands, aquifer has deterred any future development of hydro infavor of Natural gas.
What Fla has for power production since 2021 is as follows:

 

[Swerd]

@Verdinut and @Eppie Thanks for those helpful answers!

@cpp Thanks for that pie chart. Hydro does exist in Florida, but at 0.1% of the total, it's a tiny slice of the pie.

You'd think that some type of hot air generated electric power plant might be in Tallahassee. With all those politicians concentrated at the state capital, you'd think there might be a potential power source .

Of course, I live near Washington, DC and no such power plant exists here, despite the abundant year-round source of hot air .