Dominion's $1.6B Defamation Lawsuit Against Fox News Going to Trial

M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
So does Jones have $1.5 billion in assets?
Look it up. Perhaps you've conceived of a legal theory that no one in the history of law has ever thought of.

You could make a fortune overturning huge verdicts everywhere.

I suggest starting with Jones since that one seems to bother you.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Look it up. Perhaps you've conceived of a legal theory that no one in the history of law has ever thought of.

You could make a fortune overturning huge verdicts everywhere.

I suggest starting with Jones since that one seems to bother you.
I count the plaintiffs behind in payments received by $1.25 billion. How do you suggest they get the rest?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
That guy made my skin crawl from the first time I heard him and I never listened to that crap.
Alex Jones could make his mother's skin crawl, if she's dead & buried, even that of his dead grandmother.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I count the plaintiffs behind in payments received by $1.25 billion. How do you suggest they get the rest?
The judge can order Jones's future earnings be garnished. He'll be in debt the rest of his life, or an outlaw.

Jones has already been quite busy hiding his assets to shield them from being seized as a result of the judgements against him. As a result, it is difficult to know just what he has squirreled away. I don't have article links, but teams of lawyers & reporters have been digging into what his various assets are & how they are hidden.

Roughly 2 years before those lawsuits came to trial, Jones began hiding assets of some 11 different companies he owns or is associated with. He has 'signed away' much of these assets to various family members, and business associates, trying to keep them from being counted as his own. I wouldn't put it past him to have confidential signed documents promising to return the money to him, sometime in the future.

Jones is an odious skunk. The Beneficial Order of Odoriferous Skunks is filing an injunction against anyone using the word 'skunk' because calling Jones a skunk defames their species. In that spirit, Jones is an odious skunk-like human.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
I count the plaintiffs behind in payments received by $1.25 billion. How do you suggest they get the rest?
My best guess is that it will be similar to the OJ Simpson civil case. In other words, Jones will spend the rest of his life filing legal actions to avoid the judgements, and he will spend the rest of his life losing in court.

>>>O.J. Simpson will have to keep paying the Goldman family.

A Nevada judge denied his motion for relief from the multi-million dollar civil settlement with the family after Simpson was found liable for the death of Ron Goldman.<<<

 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Look it up. Perhaps you've conceived of a legal theory that no one in the history of law has ever thought of.

You could make a fortune overturning huge verdicts everywhere.

I suggest starting with Jones since that one seems to bother you.
Can they go after assets he signed over to family and friends, as it may be deemed an effort to hide them?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Can they go after assets he signed over to family and friends, as it may be deemed an effort to hide them?
He'll respond with more force and credibility, but I am pretty sure they can. It takes time though to go after them all.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Stephen Colbert had been having a snark-fest field day with the Dominion lawsuit – now has a few complaints since the out-of-court settlement.
  • The settlement has robbed him of six weeks of good material.
  • He wanted to see Rupert Murdoch being sworn in as a witness, especially when he burst into flames as his hand touched the Bible.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I agree with Chris, iron Resurrection(love Joe Martins vision) and Engine Masters are two of my favs
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Here they're saying Faux can get a tax deduction of $213 million from the defamation. I don't really understand how it is factored into the taxpayer though?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Can they go after assets he signed over to family and friends, as it may be deemed an effort to hide them?
This can get complicated and I have not looked into it in enough detail to know exactly what all of the issues are. Honestly, I'm not anxious to spend the many hours that would be required to sort out all of the issues.

Part of the problem (based on bits and pieces in news reports and my offhand recollection rather than in depth research) is that Jones ("AJ") has been stonewalling the courts so no one really knows exactly what is going on with his finances.

Your question seems to focus on friends and family as individuals, but most of the issues seem to involve legal entities such as trusts and other businesses that are not strictly speaking friends and family. Based on my recollection (which may not be 100%) of bits and pieces I've seen in the media, I believe that AJ and his existing company (hereinafter "The Sh*t Show" or "The SS") were joint defendants and they are jointly and severally liable.

My offhand recollection (which may not be 100%) is that AJ potentially transferred personal assets and assets from The SS to trusts and his other related businesses (hereinafter "Related Pieces of Sh*t" or "Related POS") in addition to family and friends. I'm not sure it makes sense to focus solely on friends and family, especially if his friends and family have ownership shares in the Related POS.

Big picture, it appears to me that his goal was to transfer assets out of his name and The SS into the Related POS, then declare bankruptcy (personal and The SS), discharge the judgements, dissolve The SS, and start a new company (hereinafter "New Sh*t Show" or "New SS") that would take the place of The SS free of the judgements. I suspect the strategy going forward would be to put profits from New SS into trusts and Related POS. Some of this is quite speculative on my part, especially with regards to potentially forming New SS, but it's hard to see what other strategy might be in play.

When we talk about "signed over" we need to decide what we mean by this? If AJ buys a new car for $100K then sells it to his dad a month later for $1K, did he "sign over" $99K to his dad? If The SS signs a contract to pay a Related POS $50 million per year for services that could probably be provided by an independent company for $5 million per year, did The SS or AJ "sign over" $45 million per year to friends and family?

In reality, these types of transactions are almost always disguised in some way in an effort to hide the true value of the transfer. There are a million ways to do it.

Based on a cursory review it appears to me that many of the issues in the bankruptcy case are in this general category. In other words, the court will need to decide if the assets were really just given away under the guise of it being a business transaction. My best guess is that the court will probably need to evaluate many thousands of transactions. I will not pretend to know the specifics of the transactions or the outcomes.

Another aspect of this is that during a bankruptcy the creditors split up the remaining assets and everyone typically gets a few pennies on the dollar. Simplifying greatly, it appears to me (based on an extremely cursory review of the situation which may be incorrect) that Related PS are claiming that they are owed vast sums by The SS and the plaintiffs will therefore need to share whatever pennies on the dollar there are with the Related POS as a way to dilute the amount received by the plaintiffs.

In other words, try to shrink the pie, then try to force the plaintiffs to share the slices that are left of the tiny pie.

The initial reports suggest it's not going in AJ's favor so far:

>>>Right-wing radio host Alex Jones helped remove profits from his bankrupt Infowars parent company [The SS] via a separate business he partially controlled [Related POS], a bankruptcy trustee has found.

Additionally, about $54 million of purportedly secured debt Infowars parent Free Speech Systems LLC [The SS] owes to Jones-affiliated PQPR Holdings Limited LLC [Related POS] isn’t legitimate and shouldn’t be first in line to be paid back under a bankruptcy plan, according to an initial report released Tuesday from Subchapter V trustee Melissa Haselden.<<<


I suspect AJ will probably be on the losing end of many decisions by the bankruptcy court, but I really do not know (I'm not playing hide the ball, I really do not know). This is just a tiny initial skirmish in a long war of attrition. No human being on this planet can honestly state that they know exactly what is going to happen over the next 10-20 (or more) years as this is litigated relentlessly (there's a chance it could settle, but I have a hard time seeing it right now).

Realistically, the current assets of AJ and The SS are probably well below what the civil judgement, regardless of how the bankruptcy court rules on the various transactions. One of the major issues that is yet to be decided is if the civil judgements can be discharged in bankruptcy.

This could be an even bigger issue in the grand scheme of things.

As I read the law (based on a very quick scan) it appears to suggest that most exceptions to discharge for civil liability involve financial fraud or similar crimes. If my impression is correct, this seems to suggest that the damages owed to the Sandy Hook plaintiffs are dischargeable (i.e. do not fall within an exception), and they'd only be able to collect pennies on the dollar with the other creditors as a result of the bankruptcy.

However, other lawyers with vastly more knowledge than me with regards to bankruptcy have indicated that the judgements are likely to be non-dischargeable, in which case the amounts owed would survive the bankruptcy.

In this case, the plaintiffs could (in theory) end up collecting $ from AJ and/or the New SS. Of course, AJ could decide not to form the New SS (or just shut down The SS) in an effort to avoid paying the plaintiffs but I suspect that in the end his greed will win over his desire to stick it to the plaintiffs.

As I understand it, the plaintiffs have already filed a motion asking the judge to rule that the amounts are non-dischargeable. I really have no idea which way it will go.
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
This can get complicated and I have not looked into it in enough detail to know exactly what all of the issues are. Honestly, I'm not anxious to spend the many hours that would be required to sort out all of the issues.

Part of the problem (based on bits and pieces in news reports and my offhand recollection rather than in depth research) is that Jones ("AJ") has been stonewalling the courts so no one really knows exactly what is going on with his finances.

Your question seems to focus on friends and family as individuals, but most of the issues seem to involve legal entities such as trusts and other businesses that are not strictly speaking friends and family. Based on my recollection (which may not be 100%) of bits and pieces I've seen in the media, I believe that AJ and his existing company (hereinafter "The Sh*t Show" or "The SS") were joint defendants and they are jointly and severally liable.

My offhand recollection (which may not be 100%) is that AJ potentially transferred personal assets and assets from The SS to trusts and his other related businesses (hereinafter "Related Pieces of Sh*t" or "Related POS") in addition to family and friends. I'm not sure it makes sense to focus solely on friends and family, especially if his friends and family have ownership shares in the Related POS.

Big picture, it appears to me that his goal was to transfer assets out of his name and The SS into the Related POS, then declare bankruptcy (personal and The SS), discharge the judgements, dissolve The SS, and start a new company (hereinafter "New Sh*t Show" or "New SS") that would take the place of The SS free of the judgements. I suspect the strategy going forward would be to put profits from New SS into trusts and Related POS. Some of this is quite speculative on my part, especially with regards to potentially forming New SS, but it's hard to see what other strategy might be in play.

When we talk about "signed over" we need to decide what we mean by this? If AJ buys a new car for $100K then sells it to his dad a month later for $1K, did he "sign over" $99K to his dad? If The SS signs a contract to pay a Related POS $50 million per year for services that could probably be provided by an independent company for $5 million per year, did The SS or AJ "sign over" $45 million per year to friends and family?

In reality, these types of transactions are almost always disguised in some way in an effort to hide the true value of the transfer. There are a million ways to do it.

Based on a cursory review it appears to me that many of the issues in the bankruptcy case are in this general category. In other words, the court will need to decide if the assets were really just given away under the guise of it being a business transaction. My best guess is that the court will probably need to evaluate many thousands of transactions. I will not pretend to know the specifics of the transactions or the outcomes.

Another aspect of this is that during a bankruptcy the creditors split up the remaining assets and everyone typically gets a few pennies on the dollar. Simplifying greatly, it appears to me (based on an extremely cursory review of the situation which may be incorrect) that Related PS are claiming that they are owed vast sums by The SS and the plaintiffs will therefore need to share whatever pennies on the dollar there are with the Related POS as a way to dilute the amount received by the plaintiffs.

In other words, try to shrink the pie, then try to force the plaintiffs to share the slices that are left of the tiny pie.

The initial reports suggest it's not going in AJ's favor so far:

>>>Right-wing radio host Alex Jones helped remove profits from his bankrupt Infowars parent company [The SS] via a separate business he partially controlled [Related POS], a bankruptcy trustee has found.

Additionally, about $54 million of purportedly secured debt Infowars parent Free Speech Systems LLC [The SS] owes to Jones-affiliated PQPR Holdings Limited LLC [Related POS] isn’t legitimate and shouldn’t be first in line to be paid back under a bankruptcy plan, according to an initial report released Tuesday from Subchapter V trustee Melissa Haselden.<<<


I suspect AJ will probably be on the losing end of many decisions by the bankruptcy court, but I really do not know (I'm not playing hide the ball, I really do not know). This is just a tiny initial skirmish in a long war of attrition. No human being on this planet can honestly state that they know exactly what is going to happen over the next 10-20 (or more) years as this is litigated relentlessly (there's a chance it could settle, but I have a hard time seeing it right now).

Realistically, the current assets of AJ and The SS are probably well below what the civil judgement, regardless of how the bankruptcy court rules on the various transactions. One of the major issues that is yet to be decided is if the civil judgements can be discharged in bankruptcy.

This could be an even bigger issue in the grand scheme of things.

As I read the law (based on a very quick scan) it appears to suggest that most exceptions to discharge for civil liability involve financial fraud or similar crimes. If my impression is correct, this seems to suggest that the damages owed to the Sandy Hook plaintiffs are dischargeable (i.e. do not fall within an exception), and they'd only be able to collect pennies on the dollar with the other creditors as a result of the bankruptcy.

However, other lawyers with vastly more knowledge than me with regards to bankruptcy have indicated that the judgements are likely to be non-dischargeable, in which case the amounts owed would survive the bankruptcy.

In this case, the plaintiffs could (in theory) end up collecting $ from AJ and/or the New SS. Of course, AJ could decide not to form the New SS (or just shut down The SS) in an effort to avoid paying the plaintiffs but I suspect that in the end his greed will win over his desire to stick it to the plaintiffs.

As I understand it, the plaintiffs have already filed a motion asking the judge to rule that the amounts are non-dischargeable. I really have no idea which way it will go.
That's a far more comprehensive answer than I expected. I suppose I should have been more clear with my question. I meant it more in principle, rather than specifically relating to this case. But thanks, it was quite enlightening.

So, if he sold his houses to his kids for a dollar each, they might or might not be beyond the reach of the courts. In other words, using a shell game to hide his assets and giving the finger to all the plaintiffs is not a slam dunk.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
So, if he sold his houses to his kids for a dollar each, they might or might not be beyond the reach of the courts. In other words, using a shell game to hide his assets and giving the finger to all the plaintiffs is not a slam dunk.
I believe that's correct.

AJ reportedly transferred ownership of one his houses to his wife about a year ago. However, this was obviously done in anticipation of civil liability and it may well be voided by a court on the basis that it was fraudulent:

>>>“I don’t need asset protection. Last year, I transferred everything to my wife.”

Bad strategy. The transfer of assets to a spouse is usually not effective. . . .

Finally, the transfer to the spouse must have occurred years in advance of a claim by a creditor, lest the transfer be challenged as a fraudulent conveyance.

Courts have the ability to look back in time for six years and undo fraudulent transfers. Thus, a husband sued this year must have transferred the assets to his wife at least six years ago.<<<


For AJ, transferring the assets may well be a losing strategy in the end, but it's probably better than nothing because it at least puts the burden on the plaintiffs to prove in court that the transfers were fraudulent.

Here's a short blog post about possible shell companies AJ may own. As you can see, the guy who wrote the blog found 13 companies that may be related to AJ.


In addition to the direct transfers and potentially fraudulent shell companies, my best guess is that AJ may have also transferred assets into offshore trusts.

Overall, bankruptcy is not a great strategy because it puts the court in control. However, AJ didn't really have any viable options so it might be better than nothing. He talks a lot of smack but his actions broadcast desperation.

As a practical matter, AJ will probably continue to stonewall and the litigation will probably continue for many years. I'm not sure it will ever be fully resolved.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
For someone who talks tough, Alex Jones sure has a thin skin.

>>>A Canadian prankster with a history of crank-calling conservative talk show hosts finally made his way to Alex Jones, using an AI-generated voice to pretend to be Tucker Carlson, paving the way for an extraordinary on-air monologue-cum-meltdown on Infowars Thursday. In his response to the call, Jones, who claims to be a bold truth-teller, lectured his audience about how it is not, in fact, funny to call him, pretend to be Tucker Carlson, and beseech him to “suck my titties.”<<<

 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
My best guess is that it will be similar to the OJ Simpson civil case. In other words, Jones will spend the rest of his life filing legal actions to avoid the judgements, and he will spend the rest of his life losing in court.

>>>O.J. Simpson will have to keep paying the Goldman family.

A Nevada judge denied his motion for relief from the multi-million dollar civil settlement with the family after Simpson was found liable for the death of Ron Goldman.<<<

Now that OJ died, the final chapter will play out. It's not at all clear what will happen in terms of his estate:

>>>David Cook, an attorney who has been seeking since 2008 to collect the civil judgment in the Ron Goldman case, said he spoke with Fred Goldman, father of Ron, on Thursday about Simpson’s death. Cook declined to say what Fred Goldman said or where he was.

“He died without penance,” Gook [sic] said of Simpson. “We don’t know what he has, where it is or who is in control. We will pick up where we are and keep going with it.”<<<

 

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