Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

[Rylan]

I called Denon today. They confirmed that any x4700h with the last 5 digits of the serial number that are 70000 or less, will have the AMK Dac.
So when mine arrives, I’m sure it will be above 70000 with the TI dac. They also are still giving for free the SPK618 HDMI adapter on those early units that suffered from a bug in the HDMI 2.1 chipset.

 

[PENG]

I called Denon today. They confirmed that any x4700h with the last 5 digits of the serial number that are 70000 or less, will have the AMK Dac.
So when mine arrives, I’m sure it will be above 70000 with the TI dac. They also are still giving for free the SPK618 HDMI adapter on those early units that suffered from a bug in the HDMI 2.1 chipset.

Jim's right, you've got it sorted!! Even if your 4700 has the TI DAC, if you like everything else about it, it is still probably the best deal right now in terms of value. It will still measure better than the Marantz AV7705/7706 that are so call "separates", and TLSGuy recommended the 7705 several times so it must be at least good enough for most audiophiles who listen with both ears and eyes.

 

[Rylan]

Jim's right, you've got it sorted!! Even if your 4700 has the TI DAC, if you like everything else about it, it is still probably the best deal right now in terms of value. It will still measure better than the Marantz AV7705/7706 that are so call "separates", and TLSGuy recommended the 7705 several times so it must be at least good enough for most audiophiles who listen with both ears and eyes.

Awesome! I’m excited to get the 4700. Question about Auro3D on the Denon. When my 5.1.4 is fully set up, and I want to try out Auro, will the placement of my 5.1.4 work for playing Auro, or Does Auro have a completely different setup? I obviously won’t be able to move my speakers being I’m doing a Dolby setup, but I’m curious how well the Auro will sound on a Dolby configuration?

 

[PENG]

Awesome! I’m excited to get the 4700. Question about Auro3D on the Denon. When my 5.1.4 is fully set up, and I want to try out Auro, will the placement of my 5.1.4 work for playing Auro, or Does Auro have a completely different setup? I obviously won’t be able to move my speakers being I’m doing a Dolby setup, but I’m curious how well the Auro will sound on a Dolby configuration?

When I had the X4400H, I was running 7.1.4. I also tried Auro just for fun, and it worked as expected, I mean electrically but not acoustically. The AVR does not know how you place the speakers. So while Denon expects you to place them as follows, the 4700 will not know how you actually place them. You will know, obviously and you shouldn't expect the optimal effects.

Auro-3D Upgrade (denon.com)

 

[Rylan]

When I had the X4400H, I was running 7.1.4. I also tried Auro just for fun, and it worked as expected, I mean electrically but not acoustically. The AVR does not know how you place the speakers. So while Denon expects you to place them as follows, the 4700 will not know how you actually place them. You will know, obviously and you shouldn't expect the optimal effects.

Auro-3D Upgrade (denon.com)

View attachment 59186

How did yours sound with your 7.1.4? Was it enjoyable enough to use with your setup?

 

[PENG]

How did yours sound with your 7.1.4? Was it enjoyable enough to use with your setup?

Not a lot of difference going from 7.1 but I use cheap Polk speakers for the Atmos, and I have only 8 ft ceiling so effectively 7.5 ft. I think to have better, more immersive kind of experience, your room has to be at least suitable, if not optimized for 7.1.4 or even 5.1.4. If I were to do it again, I still would as it is definitely better, just not a whole lot better.

 

[lovinthehd]

When I had the X4400H, I was running 7.1.4. I also tried Auro just for fun, and it worked as expected, I mean electrically but not acoustically. The AVR does not know how you place the speakers. So while Denon expects you to place them as follows, the 4700 will not know how you actually place them. You will know, obviously and you shouldn't expect the optimal effects.

Auro-3D Upgrade (denon.com)

View attachment 59186

I was just looking at the Auro page....and they do show various typical speaker setups, is it just actual discs recorded with Auro that need the "god" speaker ?

 

[PENG]

I was just looking at the Auro page....and they do show various typical speaker setups, is it just actual discs recorded with Auro that need the "god" speaker ?

Thank you for bringing this up, I have not tried it with the real Auro3D content just what I heard was subject to a) not optimized speaker placement, b) the sound field would have been just virtual, not discrete Auro3D.

 

[ban25]

Great point! I own a 4K PS4 and owned the 4K AV8801 (gave it away). Both were sold as 4K at the time, but by the time 4K took hold and gain some popularity, the format (or whatever you call..) has changed so the 4K feature I bought became obsolete with limited usage only!! Having learnt that lesson, this time around on the 8K thing I thought fool me once shame on them, and I chose the 4K Anthem AVM70, that saved me $500.

I don't need 8K to play game, but even if I did, I would not get into 8K until the dust get settled. I bet most who own the 8K AVRs/AVPs won't be taking advantage of the feature they already paid for, and by the time the contents become popular, their 8K HDMI card may fact the same thing I faced with my first generation 4K *&$%#@!

Just to reply to this one point because so many in this thread have been dismissive of HDMI 2.1 as "unobtainable 8K" that they have completely missed the point. HDMI 2.1 is necessary for 4K @ 120 Hz, which is supported on the PS5, Xbox Series X, and the last several generations of GeForce and Radeon GPUs. Some of my favorite games are in 4K 120, and it's important to a lot of people. So if you have a PS5, an Xbox, and a gaming PC, that's three inputs right there. This is why it's important to have more than one HDMI 2.1 input, especially if like me, your TV (Sony X900H) only has two HDMI 2.1 ports, one of which is consumed by eARC out to the AVR.

 

[ban25]

Also, to opine on the question posed by the thread: If I were cross-shopping these two (RZ50/X700H), I would wait just a couple weeks because the word on the street is that a new RZ70 is right around the corner...

 

[Rylan]

Also, to opine on the question posed by the thread: If I were cross-shopping these two (RZ50/X700H), I would wait just a couple weeks because the word on the street is that a new RZ70 is right around the corner...

Thank you for that update @ban25 I will be on the lookout. For now I will give both the RZ50 and the 4700 a trial run and see how they sound

 

[Timforhifi]

I own a few different avrs

main room- arcam avr21 (7.2.6)
Bedroom- denon 4700 (5.1)
Office- arcam avr10. (3.1)
Son’s bedroom- pioneer elite 505. (5.2.2)
Son’s bedroom- integra drx7.1 (3.0)

I recently picked up a denon 3800 to compare and it definitely has some upgrades over 4700. It has fully customizable preamp mode like denon 8500. You can go into any speaker and turn off internal amp. Big one is you can run 11 channels in different ways, like 7.1.4 or 5.1.6. This is the cheapest avr in the world that’ll run top front, top middle and top rears. Has 4 independent sub preouts, with new directional bass option. 3800 also has tactile transducer option to control those bass shakers. Last upgrade that I can think of is dirac, which is a big help with other receivers I own. Dirac won’t be available for a few months though.

The 3800 is definitely an upgrade over 4700. I own both and I’d skip the 4700 if they were the same price. With that being said, I won’t be keeping my 3800. I was going to replace the integra 7.1 but my son likes look of integra better. I thought about selling 4700 and keeping 3800 but I’ll never use the full capability of it in my bedroom setup.

I could go into sound quality as well but that’s just my personal opinion. Overall 4700 and 3800 sound similar but 3800 in my main room set to 5.2.6 was very good. 3800 sounded just as good as denon 6700 or denon 8500 did in that room. Honestly I can’t think of a reason to pick the 4700 over the 3800.

 

[PENG]

I own a few different avrs

main room- arcam avr21 (7.2.6)
Bedroom- denon 4700 (5.1)
Office- arcam avr10. (3.1)
Son’s bedroom- pioneer elite 505. (5.2.2)
Son’s bedroom- integra drx7.1 (3.0)

I recently picked up a denon 3800 to compare and it definitely has some upgrades over 4700. It has fully customizable preamp mode like denon 8500. You can go into any speaker and turn off internal amp. Big one is you can run 11 channels in different ways, like 7.1.4 or 5.1.6. This is the cheapest avr in the world that’ll run top front, top middle and top rears. Has 4 independent sub preouts, with new directional bass option. 3800 also has tactile transducer option to control those bass shakers. Last upgrade that I can think of is dirac, which is a big help with other receivers I own. Dirac won’t be available for a few months though.

The 3800 is definitely an upgrade over 4700. I own both and I’d skip the 4700 if they were the same price. With that being said, I won’t be keeping my 3800. I was going to replace the integra 7.1 but my son likes look of integra better. I thought about selling 4700 and keeping 3800 but I’ll never use the full capability of it in my bedroom setup.

I could go into sound quality as well but that’s just my personal opinion. Overall 4700 and 3800 sound similar but 3800 in my main room set to 5.2.6 was very good. 3800 sounded just as good as denon 6700 or denon 8500 did in that room. Honestly I can’t think of a reason to pick the 4700 over the 3800.

The choice between the 4x00 and 3x00 are always mainly about features, not sound quality or output power. That's based on specs and objective measurements.

 

[Rylan]

I just calibrated 2 front height Atmos. They came in at 200Hz. I don’t see anything in the manual for these RSL C34E’s indicating a suggested crossover. The only thing I see with any numbers is under the specifications. Any suggestions?


Specifications:
Two – 4 1/2′′ woofers— Cone Material: Polypropylene
One 7/8′′ soft-dome tweeter— Dome Material: Silk
Crossover: Hybrid 6/12 db/Octave 2,500 Hz With Air Core Inductors And Polypropylene Capacitors
Grill Fastened By Neodymium Magnets
Overall Dimensions: Outer Diameter: 11 5/8′′ Height: 3 3/4′′ Mounting Hole: Diameter: 10 1/8′′ Mounting Height: 3 7/16 ′′ Weight: 4 1/4 lbs.
Impedance: 8 ohms

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Iirc my c343’s are set to 100hz. I would try that.

 

[lovinthehd]

I just calibrated 2 front height Atmos. They came in at 200Hz. I don’t see anything in the manual for these RSL C34E’s indicating a suggested crossover. The only thing I see with any numbers is under the specifications. Any suggestions?


Specifications:
Two – 4 1/2′′ woofers— Cone Material: Polypropylene
One 7/8′′ soft-dome tweeter— Dome Material: Silk
Crossover: Hybrid 6/12 db/Octave 2,500 Hz With Air Core Inductors And Polypropylene Capacitors
Grill Fastened By Neodymium Magnets
Overall Dimensions: Outer Diameter: 11 5/8′′ Height: 3 3/4′′ Mounting Hole: Diameter: 10 1/8′′ Mounting Height: 3 7/16 ′′ Weight: 4 1/4 lbs.
Impedance: 8 ohms

Calibrated how? If Audyssey/Denon then lowering the suggested xover will leave a gap in eq. The spec to look for in speaker specs is the frequency response, which is 70 to 20,000 Hz +/- 3dB. You wouldn't want a crossover below that particularly but going quite a bit higher with a surround/Atmos speaker should be fine.

 

[Rylan]

Calibrated how? If Audyssey/Denon then lowering the suggested xover will leave a gap in eq. The spec to look for in speaker specs is the frequency response, which is 70 to 20,000 Hz +/- 3dB. You wouldn't want a crossover below that particularly but going quite a bit higher with a surround/Atmos speaker should be fine.

It’s still for the RZ50. It was under the crossover section. It’s on AccuEQ. I still can’t get Dirac to work because of errors and I can’t find a US number to call dirac to chat with them. I’m not super impressed with this Onkyo from the start because of these issues I’m having with not getting dirac to run

 

[lovinthehd]

It’s still for the RZ50. It was under the crossover section. It’s on AccuEQ. I still can’t get Dirac to work because of errors and I can’t find a US number to call dirac to chat with them. I’m not super impressed with this Onkyo from the start because of these issues I’m having with not getting dirac to run

I'd just not go below the suggested xover for now. No particular content to worry about in that range for an Atmos speaker vs sub (unless the sub is perhaps limited in upper frequencies....not a concern with mine particularly).

ps I would analyze how I did the setup, and make sure that was optimized first.

 

[Danzilla31]

Yes I’m using all RSL Speakers. I’m using the CG23’s for the LCR and the CG3s for the two surrounds.

CG23M 5.1 Home Theater Speaker System - RSL Speakers

rslspeakers.com

(I have their 4 Atmos but I’m not able to test those out until I can cut holes in the ceiling)

Thanks for the feedback, I will change all of the speakers except for the sub, to 80 Hz. I will leave the sub alone at 120 Hz. I thought I read something in the manual or saw something online about setting the sub for 80 Hz to 120 Hz, but maybe I was mistaken. I’m still trying to learn as I go and this is why I ask so many questions.

The Cg3 and the Cg23 line are using those 4 inch woofers. They are designed to be crossed over at 100hz minimum I'd even consider 120hz

The CG5 the more expensive lineup uses bigger woofers and can be crossed over at 80hz but not the CG3 line.

They will perform spectacularly at a 100 to 120hz crossover

 

[Rylan]

I had attached the wrong picture. This is what I meant to send