Electric Vehicles?

[Swerd]

Black Friday deal $70, perfect. Thanks.

 

[Mikado463]

Nice, you're ready to 'rock & roll' , let the juices flow !!

 

[Swerd]

Yesterday, I drove it more. By the time I got home, my battery charge level was down to 29%.

So today, I started charging it up for the first time.

I admit I was a little intimidated by the 50 amp 240 volt capacity of the charger. That isn't trivial, but I have to admit I'm not intimidated by 15 amp 120 volt lines, such as any lamp cord. Both can deliver a fatal shock. I guess I was also bothered by the WiFi and Bluetooth hook up complexities.

As I suspected, starting the charger is a lot simpler than I was imagining. Plug the wall charger's cable into the car, and LED lights on both the car and the wall charger told me the system's status – it was waiting to begin. I spent about 10 seconds foolishly looking for an On/Off switch somewhere in the software, but there was none. You have to select On and Off times on a timer in the car's software. I set the On time for a minute later, and it began as expected. I guess, that's a safety feature. The charger's current doesn't start flowing until at least a minute after I take my hands off the car & cable.

Today, I started charging at 3:15 pm, and it will stop no later than 7 pm, if that much time is needed. In the future, I'll charge at night, from midnight to 8 am, when electricity rates are lowest.

I can monitor the charging progress by the car's app on my phone . As I write this, it's 43% charged, with an estimated range of 120 miles.

 

[Mikado463]

Yesterday, I drove it more. By the time I got home, my battery charge level was down to 29%.

So today, I started charging it up for the first time.

I admit I was a little intimidated by the 50 amp 240 volt capacity of the charger. That isn't trivial, but I have to admit I'm not intimidated by 15 amp 120 volt lines, such as any lamp cord. Both can deliver a fatal shock. I guess I was also bothered by the WiFi and Bluetooth hook up complexities.

As I suspected, starting the charger is a lot simpler than I was imagining. Plug the wall charger's cable into the car, and LED lights on both the car and the wall charger told me the system's status – it was waiting to begin. I spent about 10 seconds foolishly looking for an On/Off switch somewhere in the software, but there was none. You have to select On and Off times on a timer in the car's software. I set the On time for a minute later, and it began as expected. I guess, that's a safety feature. The charger's current doesn't start flowing until at least a minute after I take my hands off the car & cable.

Today, I started charging at 3:15 pm, and it will stop no later than 7 pm, if that much time is needed. In the future, I'll charge at night, from midnight to 8 am, when electricity rates are lowest.

I can monitor the charging progress by the car's app on my phone . As I write this, it's 43% charged, with an estimated range of 120 miles.

all good ! I had to laugh though at your intimidation of a '240 / 50 amp' circuit, you must not have an electric range ? that's the standard !!

 

[Swerd]

I have a gas stove. And years ago, when I had an electric one, I never connected or disconnected it. It was probably hard wired.

Anyway, my first recharge is done. It was simple. It got to 90% by 10 pm — a bit under 7 hours.

Tomorrow, I’ll get WiFi into the garage.

 

[GO-NAD!]

For sure, just like all my Canadian buddies that call all snowmobiles 'Ski-Doo' !

Truth.

 

[highfigh]

now that I would change out, wiring too perhaps ?

Why? As long as the fuses and wire are sized correctly, the only other requirement, at least in the US, is that GFCI and AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters) are used, where needed. Well, and the feed wiring needs to be correctly sized and not operating at the rated maximum.

Another thing that isn't mentioned as often as it probably should be is the fact that the transformers and wiring between them and the users will need to be replaced in a lot of locations because of the increased demand.

 

[highfigh]

An update on installing a Level 2 car charger … I've made up my mind about what I'll do.

• First of all, a car charger requires a 40A 240V circuit. I'll need about 100 feet of Romex to run from my main electrical panel in the basement to the garage. Some of that must go underground. Romex is now expensive, but the outdoor/underground grade hardly costs any more. (Thank goodness for small things.)
• I'm going ahead with a new, larger, circuit breaker panel. There was really no choice about that. My old 30 slot panel is full, and if I want to add an EV charger circuit, I need a larger panel. The only choice was in how big a panel, and of what quality/price?
• My detached & unheated garage can hold 2 cars. At present, I'll only have one charger for one EV. But why not equip the garage for the future possibility of two chargers? For one charger only, I could run Romex straight into the garage and terminate it with a standard 4 prong 240V plug (NEMA 14-50). Instead, I will have a circuit breaker sub-panel inside the garage with two circuit breakers for two 40A car chargers. The additional cost for Romex capable of that extra current was hardly much more – but the sub-panel is not cheap. For now, I'll have one car charger. In the future, I can easily add a second charger without any additional cost, other than the cost of the charger itself.
• The work is estimated to take 3 days. The electrician & 2 assistants will start next Monday, when they'll replace the main panel. My electric power will be off that day. The next day or two, they'll install the line to the garage and the sub-panel switch box. As usual, the 3-day estimate is probably longer than needed. It may get it done in less time, 2 or 2½ days.
• The car charger I ordered hasn't shipped yet. When it arrives, I can install it on a stud nearby the sub-panel & plug it in myself.

I won't discuss the price for all this. Suffice to say, it's not cheap. But neither is an EV. I don't want to generate posts informing me I could do this at a lower price – that's not my reason for this thread.

Having a Level 2 car charger must be thought of as part of the price of getting an EV. The cost of a Level 2 charger, plus the cost of powering it with a 40A 240V line is not small. But that cost can vary by a lot, depending on your particular circumstances. You must learn your own situation:

1. Does your present circuit breaker panel have enough capacity for a car charger?
2. If not, it must be replaced – or – it might be modified by adding a sub-panel.
3. And finally, do you want to have only one car charger, or wire things for two chargers?

Of course, I'm thinking only what it takes for a single family house, or town house, with it's own garage or off-street parking. I'm not tackling what it might take for any other circumstances.

I'm sure your electricians are aware, but in addition to the new power feed to the detached garage, the requirements for ground stakes and using a bonding conductor have changed over the years. The pinheads who came here from Illinois didn't bother to do the service in my garage correctly, so it cost me, later.

Will they maintain power to the basic circuits, so you can use your HVAC, some lights and refrigerator?

 

[Swerd]

Tomorrow, I’ll get WiFi into the garage.

WiFi is now in the garage. It took a while with the new Google Home app, but it works. I linked the car charger to my WiFi, but I still couldn't link it to my ChargePoint account. That may not matter as I know I can now operate the charger through my car's software.

Thanks for the tip @BoredSysAdmin

 

[Swerd]

I'm sure your electricians are aware, but in addition to the new power feed to the detached garage, the requirements for ground stakes and using a bonding conductor have changed over the years.

Yes, new ground stakes were definitely done. It was in the contract, and I saw them getting driven in. I also remember reading about the bonding conductor in the contract. All the work was inspected and passed by a county inspector.

Will they maintain power to the basic circuits, so you can use your HVAC, some lights and refrigerator?

I'm not sure what you're asking. The HVAC, lights, etc. are in the house, not the garage. The detached garage, with no HVAC, was built with some inside & outside lights, two garage door openers, and a GFCI outlet. All are 120V 15A, on two separate circuits from the newly added heavy duty 240V 100A charger line.

 

[highfigh]

I have a gas stove. And years ago, when I had an electric one, I never connected or disconnected it. It was probably hard wired.

Anyway, my first recharge is done. It was simple. It got to 90% by 10 pm — a bit under 7 hours.

Tomorrow, I’ll get WiFi into the garage.

Connecting a 240VAC device is no different from connecting a 120VAC device- don't touch the contacts on the plug and you'll be fine but if you do, make sure to avoid making contact with anything on the device that's grounded with any part of your body, don't stand in water and if you must stand on bare concrete in the even that you touch one of the spades on the plug, make sure your shoes don't conduct electricity. One spade=OK if it's the ground or you're not providing the ground, one HOT spade can be a problem.

In my garage, I have a table saw, welder and compressor that use 240VAC and when I plug them in, I never think about whether it's safe or not, other than making a habit of not touching anything that could be grounded with my other hand. The plugs are the kind that must be turned to lock them in place and the body of the plug is large enough that it would be very hard to touch the spades.

 

[highfigh]

I'm not sure what you're asking. The HVAC, lights, etc. are in the house, not the garage. The detached garage, with no HVAC, was built with some inside & outside lights, two garage door openers, and a GFCI outlet. All are 120V 15A, on two separate circuits from the newly added heavy duty 240V 100A charger line.

I thought you wrote that the fuse panel in the house was being replaced and you would have no power for a day- if the temperature has dropped, they should at least allow you to heat the house and that's easy- marking the wires, removing the old panel and mounting the new one shouldn't take too long and they can connect the HVAC and fridge before anything else.

 

[Swerd]

I thought you wrote that the fuse panel in the house was being replaced and you would have no power for a day- if the temperature has dropped, they should at least allow you to heat the house and that's easy- marking the wires, removing the old panel and mounting the new one shouldn't take too long and they can connect the HVAC and fridge before anything else.

Yes, the entire old 30-slot circuit breaker panel was replaced with a larger 42-slot panel. All electric power, including heat and refrigerator were off until about 4:30 pm that first day. The weather was typical November, cool but not cold. Sunshine helped. I also ran the gas fireplace at full throttle, making it warm enough on the first floor. We stayed out of the refrigerator as much as possible.

The electrician never suggested that he could do what you mentioned, but I never asked about that, and it wasn't a problem. The 2nd day's work was done with the power on, except for one brief moment.

 

[Mikado463]

hey Swerd, wonder if your new 'hook-up' can handle charging this beast ?

Caterpillar’s First Electric Mining Truck Really Works, But It's Early Days Yet

Heavy-duty vehicle giant Caterpillar is currently developing battery-electric solutions for big mining equipment.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Swerd]

hey Swerd, wonder if your new 'hook-up' can handle charging this beast ?

Caterpillar’s First Electric Mining Truck Really Works, But It's Early Days Yet

Heavy-duty vehicle giant Caterpillar is currently developing battery-electric solutions for big mining equipment.

www.thedrive.com

I'd hope it could, but it might take several days – or weeks to charge up that Caterpillar truck. It certainly won't fit in my garage, and I wonder if my charger's 23-foot-long cord can reach it.

 

[Verdinut]

I'd hope it could, but it might take several days – or weeks to charge up that Caterpillar truck. It certainly won't fit in my garage, and I wonder if my charger's 23-foot-long cord can reach it.

For that kind of heavy machinery, I wouldn't be surprised if 600 volt lines are used for more reasonable battery charging times.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Some food for thought.
Electric vehicle repairs down the road could be costly and difficult to find, says mechanic | CBC Radio

 

[j_garcia]

Some food for thought.
Electric vehicle repairs down the road could be costly and difficult to find, says mechanic | CBC Radio

Tesla owners are already familiar with this. The number of shops are few or you are at the mercy of Tesla themselves. A friend of ours had his 1st gen Tesla flat bedded from work regularly to get worked on. Any issue that prevents the car from moving - can't be towed, has to go on a flatbed. Tesla is about 10 mi from where we work though.

It is true of all modern cars, electric or not. While there are many mechanics, there are not so many that can troubleshoot software/electronic issues.

 

[highfigh]

Some food for thought.
Electric vehicle repairs down the road could be costly and difficult to find, says mechanic | CBC Radio

Cars, EVs and even boats are surpassing the education of many schools- I'm sure many of us have seen or heard about electrical problems giving mechanics fits when they don't have an obvious cause, but now that boats, engines and outboard motors have control systems that are purely electrical, even veteran marine service techs are stumped by simple aspects of it- I went to Mastercraft Service training in 1998 and saw people who were completely confounded by Bosch relays. Had no idea what to do with them or how they could be used. Now, outboards have O2 sensors, fuel injection, self-winterizing functions and Mercury in particular, has their DTS system (Digital Throttle and Shifting) system), which I first saw when I worked at a boat dealership a few years ago- if it was shifted into Forward, Neutral or Reverse, it might go into the correct gear, but it also didn't shift or went into the wrong gear. An independent shop would only find the cause by accident if they didn't know that the processor in the Tach could fail and when that happens, it goes off the rails because that's the brains of the system. IMO, service departments are already doing a great disservice to their customers when they hire people who only understand "Yank and replace parts until it works" and use a scorched Earth approach to wiring repairs- their diagnostic 'skills' are so lacking that it's amazing they can find the problems at all without replacing parts until they stumble upon the solution and then, they list everything on the work order and hand it to the customer, complete with the customer swallowing their tongue because of the shock.

Go to any boat or car/truck forum and you'll see posts by people who complain about service departments and try to solve their vehicle's problems, usually with the 'parts cannon', usually coming to a dead end. They don't know how it works, but they think they can fix it. I like the 'can do' attitude, but people have to realize and accept the fact that they don't have a clue.

The last time I worked for a boat dealer, I was assigned a boat that 'needed' a rotor for the distributor. I used apostrophes because it didn't need that part, or the distributor cap that had been replaced previously (the rotor was back-ordered). I installed the rotor and cranked it- nothing. Apparently, nobody had checked for spark and when I saw that it could have started under the right conditions, I squirted some gas into the carb and cranked the engine- it fired and would have run, if someone had made sure that what was coming from the fuel tank wasn't mostly water. The photo is the fuel/water separator I removed and when I disconnected the fuel line from the fitting, only water came out. Once I had cleared the fuel system between the separator and the carb, I cranked it and it fired right up- some of the others in the service department came over and asked how I got it to run and they had been there when it was being 'diagnosed'. I had a conversation with the shop manager about it and he wasn't happy- there's no reason that the cause should have gone unnoticed and I only needed a few minutes to find a definitive reason for it not running- I would have found it sooner if I hadn't needed to go to my bench for the gas bottle, filter wrench, rags and the container seen in the photo.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Cars, EVs and even boats are surpassing the education of many schools- I'm sure many of us have seen or heard about electrical problems giving mechanics fits when they don't have an obvious cause, but now that boats, engines and outboard motors have control systems that are purely electrical, even veteran marine service techs are stumped by simple aspects of it- I went to Mastercraft Service training in 1998 and saw people who were completely confounded by Bosch relays. Had no idea what to do with them or how they could be used. Now, outboards have O2 sensors, fuel injection, self-winterizing functions and Mercury in particular, has their DTS system (Digital Throttle and Shifting) system), which I first saw when I worked at a boat dealership a few years ago- if it was shifted into Forward, Neutral or Reverse, it might go into the correct gear, but it also didn't shift or went into the wrong gear. An independent shop would only find the cause by accident if they didn't know that the processor in the Tach could fail and when that happens, it goes off the rails because that's the brains of the system. IMO, service departments are already doing a great disservice to their customers when they hire people who only understand "Yank and replace parts until it works" and use a scorched Earth approach to wiring repairs- their diagnostic 'skills' are so lacking that it's amazing they can find the problems at all without replacing parts until they stumble upon the solution and then, they list everything on the work order and hand it to the customer, complete with the customer swallowing their tongue because of the shock.

Go to any boat or car/truck forum and you'll see posts by people who complain about service departments and try to solve their vehicle's problems, usually with the 'parts cannon', usually coming to a dead end. They don't know how it works, but they think they can fix it. I like the 'can do' attitude, but people have to realize and accept the fact that they don't have a clue.

The last time I worked for a boat dealer, I was assigned a boat that 'needed' a rotor for the distributor. I used apostrophes because it didn't need that part, or the distributor cap that had been replaced previously (the rotor was back-ordered). I installed the rotor and cranked it- nothing. Apparently, nobody had checked for spark and when I saw that it could have started under the right conditions, I squirted some gas into the carb and cranked the engine- it fired and would have run, if someone had made sure that what was coming from the fuel tank wasn't mostly water. The photo is the fuel/water separator I removed and when I disconnected the fuel line from the fitting, only water came out. Once I had cleared the fuel system between the separator and the carb, I cranked it and it fired right up- some of the others in the service department came over and asked how I got it to run and they had been there when it was being 'diagnosed'. I had a conversation with the shop manager about it and he wasn't happy- there's no reason that the cause should have gone unnoticed and I only needed a few minutes to find a definitive reason for it not running- I would have found it sooner if I hadn't needed to go to my bench for the gas bottle, filter wrench, rags and the container seen in the photo.

Oh, I get it. When OBD-II can only diagnose down to a certain point, leaving several different possible faults, it's frustrating and possibly quite spendy. I think the point of this article is that EV's are compounding the issue.