Sigberg Audio SBS.1 Active Loudspeaker Review

[Sigberg Audio]

Right now, mainly just the simple stuff. What is your design goal and target performance metric. What are the basics of the drivers... you know, a little more of a tease to go with the cool photo! You should save some secrets for the big reveal when it's ready to go.
I only stumbled on the ASR thread by chance just the other day and haven't had a chance to dig into it yet... ASR isn't home to me the way AH is.

Design goals are somewhat similar to the SBS.1, but turned up to eleven (12" midbass driver), and this time a 3-way since the 12" has enough power on its own. And it will also to my knowledge be the first dual cardioid hifi speaker unless someone beats us to it. Both the coax (midrange) and the midbass driver are in individual, cardioid loaded chambers, which makes for a more efficient system than when a single driver have to cover multiple octaves. So it will reduce the energy to the sides and rear, reducing reflections and room interactions. It sounds amazing. And again no deep bass, so it's essentially a 4-way system when you count the subwoofer.

http://instagr.am/p/CdOqyJUs3Hz/

 

[ryanosaur]

Design goals are somewhat similar to the SBS.1, but turned up to eleven (12" midbass driver), and this time a 3-way since the 12" has enough power on its own. And it will also to my knowledge be the first dual cardioid hifi speaker unless someone beats us to it. Both the coax (midrange) and the midbass driver are in individual, cardioid loaded chambers, which makes for a more efficient system than when a single driver have to cover multiple octaves. So it will reduce the energy to the sides and rear, reducing reflections and room interactions. It sounds amazing. And again no deep bass, so it's essentially a 4-way system when you count the subwoofer.

http://instagr.am/p/CdOqyJUs3Hz/

Very cool. Thank you for the added info!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

How do you value R&D? Building and testing Prototypes. How many Drivers may have passed through their hands in the process of choosing what to use? Turning on the lights in their shop?

In the DIY world, I see a lot of people looking for the best buy for their dollar; always hoping to find $20 drivers that will do the job of $100 drivers. In fact, $100 Drivers are generally regarded as Premium Drivers.
The art, of course, is in the integration you achieve. But that is selling Skill and Technique short.
What else happens in the DIY world? People don't account for internal wiring, screws, glue, saw blades and router bits, clamps, damping material, sandpaper, paint, soldering irons and solder, the cost of XO components when used instead of a DSP Amp...

Anyway, let's not forget the need of a business... any business venture... to turn a profit... hopefully.

Finding the right recipe to build a successful Speaker Design does not happen overnight, nor does turning a profit.

So once you add in the cost of all the gear required to design and build the Speakers, test them, market them, ship them, pay staff, put food on your own table..................

Where does the balance point occur?

People complain about the cost of JTR Speakers. Why? He's selling you 2 pair of Coaxial Compression Drivers that retail near $1000 each, and your getting 4 Large Woofers as part of the package, along with everything else. Jeff has to pay a guy to build his cabinets, who in turn has to pay a crew to do the labor, sharpen tools, replace tools, pay their overhead...

Just as Sigberg has to do.

Questioning the end cost to consumer based on the retail price of 4 Drivers and two Amps is far and away one of the most foolish things I've seen done. And it's not just here where this happens. I've seen people try to pick apart the pricing for BMR Monitors and Towers AND so much more!
There simply isn't anything productive to be gained in these endeavors.

If Sigberg was trying to save money, perhaps they could order finished cabinets from the same company Sonus Faber does in China. Not all of their cabinets come from there, but some do. Maybe he could get ICE amps instead of Hypex to make these more affordable, and use the same crappy Celestion Drivers you find in the Volt 6 that measured like @$$ on Erin's bench.

The thing I'm seeing, in the bigger picture, is a business that is trying to break into a notoriously difficult field, and do it in style. Everytime something new comes along, there's a crew of detractors complaining about Perlisten and Buchardt and Arendal and Dutch & Dutch and so forth and so on.
But B&W, KEF or Focal can charge $15-25K for Speakers and people are saying, "Cool. I wish I could buy that," and leave it at that.
*shrugs

All I'm trying to point out is that there is a lot of misplaced energy taking time to complain about the premier design... their first Speaker... being offered by a new company which has two Subs and this SBS.1 available while working on a second design. Rather than Support a new effort and design concept and the potential it may bring, the pricing and shipping policies get questioned and criticized.

There's a reason why included Review Threads in the Drinking Game... And this is a perfect example.

The Official _/Unofficial/_ AH Drinking Game!

I've been joking about this for far, far too long. It started up as an idea in my head after AH was inundated with people buying lower-tier B&W Speakers and coming on the Forum to find out why they sounded like @$$ once they set them up in their home. :) After that, there were... other topics of...

forums.audioholics.com

*steps off soapbox

Edit: I just want to be clear, this is not addressed at any single post or AH Member.

I'm not saying that you're wrong here, but the opposite logic is accepted very quickly - I mean, any biz would say we have to raise prices due to increased components costs and no one blinks. The cost of components is an inseparable part of any product pricing. However, of course it's far from the only ingredient. I never said anything otherwise. If anything @shadyJ comment ". I wouldn't think that those carbon weave drivers are on the same level as the Sica drivers " - Judging drivers' performance based on diaphragms material alone seems silly to me. $100 (ballpark) for each of Sica drivers is probably a fine choice for this design based on goals. Who am I to judge?
Again James's another remark here: "The SBS.1 is more like a hi-fi no-expenses-spared speaker."
I think I've proven my point that while Sica are great drivers(I'll take Sigberg's word on it), I doubt they fall into last category mentioned.

Again, my remarks shouldn't be taken directly to the value or performance of these fine speakers. I'm sure the well-executed design of the SBS.1 speaker is greater than the sum of its parts, regardless if some of these are top or middle-shelf parts.

Giving new company a slack due their being new? That's very commendable, but alas not very realistic.
Here's SVS Sound page from 2005 (they were founded few years before that and I cant find an earlier version in Internet archive)
At the time they had products ranging from $430 to $2300+shipping, mostly made in usa.

My final point: Everyone has their own opinion, and I think my own opinion is reasonably apparent. Clearly these aren't priced for budget minded folks and I will leave this thread alone as my point ran it's course.

 

[shadyJ]

What part of the forum would I put that, typically?

I am sure the Loudspeakers area is fine for that.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

On a different note, both the "dip" in the 2-4khz area and the "midbass hump" 150-400hz area was mentioned in the live stream the other day, among others Erin asked about it in the chat, referring to a 3-5dB bump compared to the midrange/highs. I misunderstood his question at first during the live stream, and it also wasn't a good medium to explain at length. So here goes!

At first I want to repeat the fact that the 15 degrees angle has been the focus with regards to smoothness, and is the angle that most will be listening to. The total difference of the average level in 150-400hz area and the dip in the 2-4khz is indeed almost 4dB. But bear in mind that still translates to less than +/-2dB. And as explained earlier in the thread, the 2-4khz dip is intentional voicing to get the right total energy in this area when combining on-axis and off-axis response.

With regards to the midbass bump: During testing of these speakers across a number of rooms, we saw a trend of slight dips in this area, meaning this slight (1-2dB) bump actually helped give a more neutral in-room response, and also what gave the most natural timbre during listening sessions. If you have a look in some "share your in-room response" threads, you'll also likely notice that weak energy in the 100-300hz area is actually quite common (not just with these speakers), often due to reflections / SBIR effects.

TL;DR: This is intentional voicing in order to give the most natural and neutral combined response in-room.

 

[Pat D]

Hercule Poirot is French speaking but his nationality is Belgian!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hercule Poirot is French speaking but his nationality is Belgian!

Lost, you are
Edit:

 

[shadyJ]

Lost, you are

He is referring to the movie I watched for the review.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

An update on pricing: For a while now we've had all included pricing, which meant that the price on the website included shipping and any import taxes and duties. This is also what was reported with regards to pricing in this review. This means we've basically had fixed, world wide pricing.

In practice, import taxes and duties are obviously not the same in all countries, and especially the USA often have relatively low import duties and these types of products (6-10% depending on the state as far as I've understood). This means our products have been more expensive than they could have been in the US and other countries with low import taxes.

As a result we've decided to go back to our more traditional pricing model, where foreign customers (anyone not from Norway) will pay an ex VAT/duties price. It will still include door to door shipping.

Note that prices are still fixed to NOK currency so will vary somewhat depending on currency rates, so the pricing below is based on USD currency rate as of today October 2nd 2022.

What does this mean in practice for international pricing?

• Inkognito 10 subwoofer is now 1983USD (was 2479USD)
• Inkognito 12 subwoofer is now 2351USD (was 2939USD)
• 10D subwoofer is now 2645USD (was 3300USD)
• Set of dual 10D subwoofers is now 4761USD (was 5950USD)
• The SBS.1 active speaker is now 4629USD per pair (was 5786USD)

This includes shipping, but does not include local import taxes and duties.


Feel free to follow up (here or in a direct message) if you have any questions.

 

[ryanosaur]

Feel free to follow up (here or in a direct message) if you have any questions.

Will Sigberg Audio continue the service of managing shipments to your international clients with appropriate fees paid to you [the company], or should customers expect to be paying their own customs duties and any applicable taxes?

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Will Sigberg Audio continue the service of managing shipments to your international clients with appropriate fees paid to you [the company], or should customers expect to be paying their own customs duties and any applicable taxes?

My apologies if that was unclear, that is the main change here - that we do no longer handle customs duties and taxes (this will need to be paid by the customer on import), thus the reduction in price. But at least for the US, these duties will be significantly lower than the cut in price (I'd estimate perhaps 50% less).

So on the SBS speakers the price reduction is over 1000USD, while I wouldn't expect the import fees to exceed 10% into the US, which means the absolute reduction in price after fees/taxes is more than 500USD.

 

[ryanosaur]

My apologies if that was unclear, that is the main change here - that we do no longer handle customs duties and taxes (this will need to be paid by the customer on import), thus the reduction in price. But at least for the US, these duties will be significantly lower than the cut in price (I'd estimate perhaps 50% less).

So on the SBS speakers the price reduction is over 1000USD, while I wouldn't expect the import fees to exceed 10% into the US, which means the absolute reduction in price after fees/taxes is more than 500USD.

Understood!
While it is the logical conclusion...

Humans are far from logical these days, and seemingly running hard to prevent such shackles from limiting our penchant for chaos.

 

[mono-bloc]

Unfortunately at the present time, any thoughts of importing from the States is out of the question, due to the very low exchange rates. US dollar prices are virtually double when you consider the exchange rates of the Oz dollar only worth 64 cents in the US

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Unfortunately at the present time, any thoughts of importing from the States is out of the question, due to the very low exchange rates. US dollar prices are virtually double when you consider the exchange rates of the Oz dollar only worth 64 cents in the US

@mono-bloc We are based in Norway, not in the US. Not sure that's any better from an exchange rate perspective, but just wanted to clarify.

 

[mono-bloc]

We are based in Norway, not in the US. Not sure that's any better from an exchange rate perspective, but just wanted to clarify.

I use this converter, it's updated every 24 hrs https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

What annoys me more then anything is the way we in OZ, determine the GST on an imported item. Sure it's justified if it's a new item, But they
charge the same rates on a used, [2nd hand ] item. Which had purchase tax paid on point of sale.
I sent an Amp oversea's for a repair, and got a tax account to be paid on it's return.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I use this converter, it's updated every 24 hrs https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

What annoys me more then anything is the way we in OZ, determine the GST on an imported item. Sure it's justified if it's a new item, But they
charge the same rates on a used, [2nd hand ] item. Which had purchase tax paid on point of sale.
I sent an Amp oversea's for a repair, and got a tax account to be paid on it's return.

If you go to our website you will get prices in your currency (AUD right?), or can at least select it manually if it doesn't work automatically.

The SBS.1 is 9,122AUD per pair with todays exchange rate.

With regards to repair you don't have to ship anything, all our products are easily servicable for anyone who can hold a screwdriver, and we will ship replacement parts to you if necessary. Within the warranty period (five years) the replacement part is obviously free and we will cover the shipping and import tax as well. And even beyond that we will charge a fair price for anything that breaks (not that we think it will).

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Experimenting with foam wedges (originally made for tilting studio monitors) to get a 4 degree tilt on the Mantas when placed on top of the 10D subwoofers. This is just a test, but considering to custom make these so they fit perfectly. So with a bit of imagination you could imagine these foam wedges filling out to the front and being made in a darker color, I think it will look pretty decent.

You loose 5 centimeters (~2 inches) height compared to the stand, so this gives a tweeter height of 92cm (as opposed to 97cm). I guess we could create a filler foam plate to add the lost height too if need be.

 

[TLS Guy]

Experimenting with foam wedges (originally made for tilting studio monitors) to get a 4 degree tilt on the Mantas when placed on top of the 10D subwoofers. This is just a test, but considering to custom make these so they fit perfectly. So with a bit of imagination you could imagine these foam wedges filling out to the front and being made in a darker color, I think it will look pretty decent.

You loose 5 centimeters (~2 inches) height compared to the stand, so this gives a tweeter height of 92cm (as opposed to 97cm). I guess we could create a filler foam plate to add the lost height too if need be.

Why not make some feet for the sub, or alternatively make a base for the sub? That would look a lot better than any type of wedge and look much more professional, especially the base solution.

 

[ryanosaur]

Why not make some feet for the sub, or alternatively make a base for the sub. That would look a lot better than any type of wedge and look much more professional, especially the base solution.

I was thinking that too... For the feet, I really like the SVS Soundpath feet... they are not the prettiest things by themselves, but they do raise the sub about 1.5"... Or like my Outlaw x-13 Subs which have a Spacer leg between the stock feet and the Sub body.

I don't mind the wedge, especially if the Speaker is intended to be canted back a little. But too much between the Sub and the Speaker is... well, too much.

 

[TLS Guy]

I was thinking that too... For the feet, I really like the SVS Soundpath feet... they are not the prettiest things by themselves, but they do raise the sub about 1.5"... Or like my Outlaw x-13 Subs which have a Spacer leg between the stock feet and the Sub body.

I don't mind the wedge, especially if the Speaker is intended to be canted back a little. But too much between the Sub and the Speaker is... well, too much.

Yes, I agree, it does not look good at all. I think a nice base that the sub fits into would look really good and increase stability. The wedge will always look like an afterthought.