Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
At least my Denon receiver has a metal door covering the controls in contrast to the 3000 series. The Marantz may look better but the porthole display is useless, and their HDMA circuitry is worse than useless according to measurements.
The porthole look is horrible IMO. HDAM, not HDMA (altho a mix of HDMI and HDAM could be?). Like speakers, mostly just fugly in most respects.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
I love a good porthole.;) Now, if you all will excuse me, this troll has three more bridges to hit tonight. They lose their s#%t when I spray the R on their T O L L signs. It’s a riot!:D
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Actually he sells more Denon, Marantz than Yamaha.
So? He has been overly defensive in this thread instead of simply acknowledging that there are issues. It is nothing unique for Yamaha to have issues as this is common for all manufacturers. If you don’t use the pre-outs you might not care about the performance but if you do use it why should you not care about performance?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Following ADTG and his brand preferences can be confusing. Just think he should be identified as a seller/dealer here. Drug dealer, too. :)
 
clone1008

clone1008

Full Audioholic
You recently bought an expensive Yamaha receiver, and that you are defensive is quite human. Similar goes for the angsty dealer that I’m sure has gotten many questions from potential customers about Yamaha, considering the damage control he is engaged in currently.
Yep I'm bugging BB incessantly. BTW it's my 3rd Yammy..

When I buy a new receiver, the pre-pros are “only” receivers without amps to at least twice the price and questionable performance, I’ll look what is available for my needs and wants at that time.
Stick with the metal Denon doors...you'll be glad you did.
 
OldAndSlowDev

OldAndSlowDev

Senior Audioholic
You recently bought an expensive Yamaha receiver, and that you are defensive is quite human. Similar goes for the angsty dealer that I’m sure has gotten many questions from potential customers about Yamaha, considering the damage control he is engaged in currently.

When I buy a new receiver, the pre-pros are “only” receivers without amps to at least twice the price and questionable performance, I’ll look what is available for my needs and wants at that time.

Measurements of devices will be important, but also things like features, build quality, reliability and support.

So sites like Audioholics and ASR with their measurements helps me making a more informed purchase decision.
I am so happy not to have based my purchase based on ASR review (I use to spend hours reading everything when looking for something, and ASR or AH reviews are awesome compared to subjective reviews). I based my purchase upon features, reliability and price. And what a surprise when I finally got my Yamaha to replace my Denon old very high end AVC-A1D : my speakers finally sound amazing! Maybe it’s a matter of sound taste, speaker pairing I don’t know, but it’s not a 0.1% that defines the sound quality when I am listening music, my ears aren’t good enough. I wonder if instead of distortion, it’s not something related to fast changes in volume that should be tested, what we call detailed and dynamic sound. Measuring the ability to reproduce a sound without distortion in a sweep test is something, being able to being nimble is something else. It’s like looking is a car is able to maintain the perfect speed in a linear relationship between throttle and real speed while the real use case and performance is how a car accelerate and brake.
 
clone1008

clone1008

Full Audioholic
I am so happy not to have based my purchase based on ASR review (I use to spend hours reading everything when looking for something, and ASR or AH reviews are awesome compared to subjective reviews). I based my purchase upon features, reliability and price. And what a surprise when I finally got my Yamaha to replace my Denon old very high end AVC-A1D : my speakers finally sound amazing! Maybe it’s a matter of sound taste, speaker pairing I don’t know, but it’s not a 0.1% that defines the sound quality when I am listening music, my ears aren’t good enough. I wonder if instead of distortion, it’s not something related to fast changes in volume that should be tested, what we call detailed and dynamic sound. Measuring the ability to reproduce a sound without distortion in a sweep test is something, being able to being nimble is something else. It’s like looking is a car is able to maintain the perfect speed in a linear relationship between throttle and real speed while the real use case and performance is how a car accelerate and brake.
But wait a second, don't you miss the metal door?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I am so happy not to have based my purchase based on ASR review (I use to spend hours reading everything when looking for something, and ASR or AH reviews are awesome compared to subjective reviews). I based my purchase upon features, reliability and price. And what a surprise when I finally got my Yamaha to replace my Denon old very high end AVC-A1D : my speakers finally sound amazing! Maybe it’s a matter of sound taste, speaker pairing I don’t know, but it’s not a 0.1% that defines the sound quality when I am listening music, my ears aren’t good enough. I wonder if instead of distortion, it’s not something related to fast changes in volume that should be tested, what we call detailed and dynamic sound. Measuring the ability to reproduce a sound without distortion in a sweep test is something, being able to being nimble is something else. It’s like looking is a car is able to maintain the perfect speed in a linear relationship between throttle and real speed while the real use case and performance is how a car accelerate and brake.
Good practical approach. While engineering purity can be nice but generally with solid state electronics it's the features and price for the most part (most being too new to judge longevity particularly....altho it would be nice to have more info in this regard). The translation of subjective to meaningful info....always a problem.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
I am so happy not to have based my purchase based on ASR review (I use to spend hours reading everything when looking for something, and ASR or AH reviews are awesome compared to subjective reviews). I based my purchase upon features, reliability and price. And what a surprise when I finally got my Yamaha to replace my Denon old very high end AVC-A1D : my speakers finally sound amazing! Maybe it’s a matter of sound taste, speaker pairing I don’t know, but it’s not a 0.1% that defines the sound quality when I am listening music, my ears aren’t good enough. I wonder if instead of distortion, it’s not something related to fast changes in volume that should be tested, what we call detailed and dynamic sound. Measuring the ability to reproduce a sound without distortion in a sweep test is something, being able to being nimble is something else. It’s like looking is a car is able to maintain the perfect speed in a linear relationship between throttle and real speed while the real use case and performance is how a car accelerate and brake.
I wrote that measurements are a part of what I look at when purchasing, but an important part.

Last year I bought the RME ADI-2 DAC FS for it’s features and the decades long track record RME has shown supporting their devices, including drivers. There are better measuring DACs but lacking features like Dynamic Loudness or Auto Reference Levels for the outputs. The RME does measure very well though.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Good practical approach. While engineering purity can be nice but generally with solid state electronics it's the features and price for the most part (most being too new to judge longevity particularly....altho it would be nice to have more info in this regard). The translation of subjective to meaningful info....always a problem.
For sure it’s a compromise one has to make oneself but ignoring measurements is not the way, IMO, for absent them all you’re left with is subjective impressions and magical thinking. I know you don’t ignore them.

As for longevity of receivers there are little, if any, published statistics for the various brands. So the assertion repeated so often here that Yamaha is so much more reliable than others is only an assertion without evidence, no more than a selling point as far as I’m concerned.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Actually he sells more Denon, Marantz than Yamaha.
Thanks for catching that, Mike. I missed that one. :D

Yes, I have no control over what my clients want. I respect what people want.

What I personally want for my own system and what I post here on the forum for fun has nothing to do with me selling or being a dealer. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
the assertion repeated so often here that Yamaha is so much more reliable than others is only an assertion without evidence, no more than a selling point as far as I’m concerned.
And you think that some dealers are trying to sell more Yamaha than Denon? :D

Why would dealers care what you or anyone else want to buy?

Dealers will sell their clients whatever their clients want to buy.

If my clients want a Denon X8500HA or Marantz AV7706, I am happy to help them. Do you think I would try to talk them out of buying the Denon? :D
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
So? He has been overly defensive in this thread instead of simply acknowledging that there are issues. It is nothing unique for Yamaha to have issues as this is common for all manufacturers. If you don’t use the pre-outs you might not care about the performance but if you do use it why should you not care about performance?
Can't say, He has told me he sells more of Denon, Marantz AVR's than Yamaha. Was just stating that.
 
clone1008

clone1008

Full Audioholic
And you think that some dealers are trying to sell more Yamaha than Denon? :D

Why would dealers care what you or anyone else want to buy?

Dealers will sell their clients whatever their clients want to buy.

If my clients want a Denon X8500HA or Marantz AV7706, I am happy to help them. Do you think I would try to talk them out of buying the Denon? :D
Absolutely no different than a drug dealer is it... ;)
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
But wait a second, don't you miss the metal door?
I miss the door! But really, let's say, one would happen to lose their remote or it just stops working. You pull down the door and you still can access everything. Now before anyone says, but you still can access functions on the new line. Well yes and no, I've used that lil selecter knob on my A4A, the idea of having to rotate till you get to what your looking for to pop up on the front display isn't to my liking. having the pull down door, speaking for me much better. Umm more user friendly than a select knob you have to rotate.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am so happy not to have based my purchase based on ASR review (I use to spend hours reading everything when looking for something, and ASR or AH reviews are awesome compared to subjective reviews). I based my purchase upon features, reliability and price. And what a surprise when I finally got my Yamaha to replace my Denon old very high end AVC-A1D : my speakers finally sound amazing! Maybe it’s a matter of sound taste, speaker pairing I don’t know, but it’s not a 0.1% that defines the sound quality when I am listening music, my ears aren’t good enough. I wonder if instead of distortion, it’s not something related to fast changes in volume that should be tested, what we call detailed and dynamic sound. Measuring the ability to reproduce a sound without distortion in a sweep test is something, being able to being nimble is something else. It’s like looking is a car is able to maintain the perfect speed in a linear relationship between throttle and real speed while the real use case and performance is how a car accelerate and brake.
Even if the Denon AVC-A1D is in top shape, based on the audio specifications only it will lose, except if everything is kept in the analog domain, then it may have a chance.

The thing is, specs and measurements are not affected by expectation bias and Placebo effects that can only be taken out of the equation if the often mentioned (like a million times) tightly controlled double blind test protocols are followed. Even for comparing loudspeakers (that we all agree most can tell the differences), tightly controlled blind test results had shown that sighted tests were unreliable. Even the color of the speaker grille made a difference in "sound quality".:D

The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests vs Double Blind - YouTube

Your point about the "fast changes", "dynamic" are obviously part of the equation, but the associated factors/specs such as slew rate and damping factor have been debunked many times by various experts, not because they are not relevant, but because those are no longer the issues, or limitations especially when you are comparing the mid range AVRs that pretty use the same bunch (or very comparable) of ICs used in the audios signal chain while the design of those signal chain are highly standardized, not rocket science involved there.

So you are right that the difference between the 0.05 or 0.005% THD+N are not audible to the non golden ears group, but the same goes for the damping factor and slew rate, in fact to the point most test benches including AH and ASR would only measure them occasionally. Audiophiles do continue to cite things that are not measured as reasons for what they claimed they "heard", the last popular one seems to be TIM distortions, transient intermodulation, that is also one related to your last point, but when was the last time AH or any test bench even bothered to mention it, let alone measuring... Again, yes AH and ASR can, probably should measure a lot more to try and find out what's causing the audible differences, but my educated guess is that they wouldn't bother because deep down they know the "truth".;)

I also would not make my choice of my next AVR or AVP based on AH or ASR's test results only, but on "all else being equal, or highly comparable" basis, all else would include features, perceived reliability, ergonomics, even the look, then yes I would base my final decision on specifications and bench test results.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
And you think that some dealers are trying to sell more Yamaha than Denon? :D

Why would dealers care what you or anyone else want to buy?

Dealers will sell their clients whatever their clients want to buy.

If my clients want a Denon X8500HA or Marantz AV7706, I am happy to help them. Do you think I would try to talk them out of buying the Denon? :D
OMG, the Center Channel’s THD+N is about 0.02% at 2V. That’s absolutely atrocious and garbage. ;) :D
Agreed, that's only 2.5X higher than the A6A's center channel, that's unacceptable, I won't order one like that even if you offer my a 50% discount.:D:D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Multichannel measurements make more sense than multitonal measurements. I welcome Gene's 8 channel sweeps and would welcome Amir routinely measuring multichannel output on relevant devices.
I wish, but unfortunately for a one man operation that measures more than one device in any given week, this will never happen.
 
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