Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[Replicant 7]

Refurb units on complex electronics are sold at a discount with reduced warranty because they are not defect free. They'd either have to spend hours and hours on a diagnostic or just start replacing boards to rectify an issue which they hope some customers can live with or something else (which doesn't affect the real world user experience). Amir Majicmoomoo, the fraud Revel dealer's Revels always magically top the charts when he measures speakers in his garage. If this fraud sells anything, his competitor's products will magically measure poorly. We'd need lead test engineers from manufacturers to come and fully audit fraud Majimoomoo's tests from start to finish in the squalor of his garage (a.k.a his test lab...and watch him like a hawk).

Does he sell anything? He seems to be credible, or is his testing of audio gear questionable? Don't know can't say, or will I even imply that Amir isn't credible.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

I have been introduce to ASR by a more audiophile friend, but now I know a little bit more, I start to doubt a bit about these reviews and measurements...

 

[Trell]

I have been introduce to ASR by a more audiophile friend, but now I know a little bit more, I start to doubt a bit about these reviews and measurements...

And what are you doubting about the measurement?

 

[Trell]

Does he sell anything? He seems to be credible, or is his testing of audio gear questionable? Don't know can't say, or will I even imply that Amir isn't credible.

He is trolling.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

And what are you doubting about the measurement?

Not really about measurements but about the way they are done. I feel I miss some explanations about how many channels are tested, why testing 5v while the correct output is supposed to be around 2v and 4v is plenty. I have a mixed feeling about all these.

 

[clone1008]

Does he sell anything? He seems to be credible, or is his testing of audio gear questionable? Don't know can't say, or will I even imply that Amir isn't credible.

Go look at this guy's posts, he seems to ruffle quite a few feathers. Seems he may have an agenda.

 

[Replicant 7]

He is trolling.

Thanks for confirming. That's what I took from his post. His post seems to be implying that Amir, may be manipulating facts with his result findings, without providing any evidence other than his dislike of his wedsite.

 

[Trell]

Not really about measurements but about the way they are done. I feel I miss some explanations about how many channels are tested, why testing 5v while the correct output is supposed to be around 2v and 4v is plenty. I have a mixed feeling about all these.

You could ask on ASR if you want more information on the testing procedure.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not really about measurements but about the way they are done. I feel I miss some explanations about how many channels are tested, why testing 5v while the correct output is supposed to be around 2v and 4v is plenty. I have a mixed feeling about all these.

He is using an Audio Precision analysis unit, much like Gene has here. Amir doesn't do as deep a dive generally, you see what you get. He's trustworthy. Keep in mind the gear sent in isn't necessarily new, and can't remember last time he had a refurb like the 3080 was (but doubt that means the 3080 isn't representative of a new unit, many refurbs are simply returns for various reasons, not necessarily any defects, altho of course there are some of those as well). May as well test the voltage at various levels, why would you not?

 

[Trell]

He is using an Audio Precision analysis unit, much like Gene has here. Amir doesn't do as deep a dive generally, you see what you get. He's trustworthy. Keep in mind the gear sent in isn't necessarily new, and can't remember last time he had a refurb like the 3080 was (but doubt that means the 3080 isn't representative of a new unit, many refurbs are simply returns for various reasons, not necessarily any defects, altho of course there are some of those as well. May as well test the voltage at various levels, why would you not?

He also has a Klippel for measuring speakers.

He’s testing many devices and where it not for him we likely wouldn’t have those measurements.

 

[lovinthehd]

He also has a Klippel for measuring speakers.

He’s testing many devices and where it not for him we likely wouldn’t have those measurements.

I don't pay much attention but he also has that headphone measurement rig for a while now. He's a measurement machine....

 

[PENG]

Not really about measurements but about the way they are done. I feel I miss some explanations about how many channels are tested, why testing 5v while the correct output is supposed to be around 2v and 4v is plenty. I have a mixed feeling about all these.

If you want to know more about how his measurements are done, there are a few articles (iirc one is in video), such as the following:

Article: Understanding Digital Audio Measurements | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

He had measured up to 5 channels on some unit but on the power amp outputs only. For preamp/dac of AVRs he always measured the two front channels but had also measure the center channel in one occasion, I might have missed he it was more than once.

Take a look of a couple of examples:
Marantz SR8015 Review (Home Theater AVR) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Note that Gene has also measured the SR8015 here on AH and you compared the results (AH's and ASR's), they are in general agreement.

5 channel driven meaurement:

Center channel measurements:
Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review | Page 14 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

The center channel's SINAD was lower because it was measured with the internal amps connected so at 2 V, the power amp would clip and the higher distortions/noise would polluted the preamp/dac output signal. The front left and right channel in that case were disconnected via the amp assign feature, but that feature can only be used to disconnect the front left and right channel internal power amps.

"As you see, Center channel without amp disconnect suffers a lot.

If you reduce the output to 1.4 volts, SINAD of the center channel improves to 97 dB

whereas the Left goes up to 103 dB. This is at volume position 79.5 dB (above is at 82.5). "

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you want to know more about how his measurements are done, there are a few articles (iirc one is in video), such as the following:

Article: Understanding Digital Audio Measurements | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

He had measured up to 5 channels on some unit but on the power amp outputs only. For preamp/dac of AVRs he always measured the two front channels but had also measure the center channel in one occasion, I might have missed he it was more than once.

Take a look of a couple of examples:
Marantz SR8015 Review (Home Theater AVR) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Note that Gene has also measured the SR8015 here on AH and you compared the results (AH's and ASR's), they are in general agreement.

5 channel driven meaurement:

View attachment 52793

Center channel measurements:
Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review | Page 14 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

The center channel's SINAD was lower because it was measured with the internal amps connected so at 2 V, the power amp would clip and the higher distortions/noise would polluted the preamp/dac output signal. The front left and right channel in that case were disconnected via the amp assign feature, but that feature can only be used to disconnect the front left and right channel internal power amps.

"As you see, Center channel without amp disconnect suffers a lot.




View attachment 52794

OMG, the Center Channel’s THD+N is about 0.02% at 2V. That’s absolutely atrocious and garbage.

So this pretty much sort of proves that most companies (including Yamaha and DM) and most people mainly care about the main front Left and Right channels. And they care a lot less about the Center and Surround channels.

I wonder about the THD+N of the Atmos Surround Channels. THD+N might be 0.05%.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

OMG, the Center Channel’s THD+N is about 0.02% at 2V. That’s absolutely atrocious and garbage.

So this pretty much sort of proves that most companies (including Yamaha and DM) and most people mainly care about the main front Left and Right channels. And they care a lot less about the Center and Surround channels.

I wonder about the THD+N of the Atmos Surround Channels. THD+N might be 0.05%.

You are right, when I am listening to Atmos it’s almost like hearing pink noise. The distortion is so huge that when listening to Clapton I am hearing the Beatles!!!

 

[Trell]

OMG, the Center Channel’s THD+N is about 0.02% at 2V. That’s absolutely atrocious and garbage.

So this pretty much sort of proves that most companies (including Yamaha and DM) and most people mainly care about the main front Left and Right channels. And they care a lot less about the Center and Surround channels.

I wonder about the THD+N of the Atmos Surround Channels. THD+N might be 0.05%.

Yamaha could add a "pre-amp mode" and that would be a useful feature to have for those who won't use the internal amplifiers. Even better if this could be user selectable on each pair of pre-outs for those that will use only a few of the internal amplifiers.

But why improve their products when the manufacturers can jack up the prices instead of taking advantage of the improvements in technology? Reminds me of dinosaurs when the Yamaha receiver have four composite and two component video inputs.

 

[AVR Enthu]

He had measured up to 5 channels on some unit but on the power amp outputs only. For preamp/dac of AVRs he always measured the two front channels but had also measure the center channel in one occasion, I might have missed he it was more than once.

Multichannel measurements make more sense than multitonal measurements. I welcome Gene's 8 channel sweeps and would welcome Amir routinely measuring multichannel output on relevant devices.

 

[Trell]

Refurb units on complex electronics are sold at a discount with reduced warranty because they are not defect free. They'd either have to spend hours and hours on a diagnostic or just start replacing boards to rectify an issue which they hope some customers can live with or something else (which doesn't affect the real world user experience). Amir Majicmoomoo, the fraud Revel dealer's Revels always magically top the charts when he measures speakers in his garage. If this fraud sells anything, his competitor's products will magically measure poorly. We'd need lead test engineers from manufacturers to come and fully audit fraud Majimoomoo's tests from start to finish in the squalor of his garage (a.k.a his test lab...and watch him like a hawk).

This thread is not in the SteamVent forum where almost anything goes. Here you actually have to substantiate your claims of fraud.

 

[clone1008]

This thread is not in the SteamVent forum where almost anything goes. Here you actually have to substantiate your claims of fraud.

Typical in and out troll.

 

[little wing]

The old RX-A2060 that I have is probably the crown jewel of the Yamahas. Probably a collectors item. LOL

LOL, hold on to it. I feel the same way about my 3060. As long as it continues to work like a charm, it's not going anywhere. Passes through 4k, and Dolby vision just fine. All the audio formats and power I'm likely to need for a while.

 

[DJ7675]

Amir Majicmoomoo, the fraud Revel dealer's Revels always magically top the charts when he measures speakers in his garage. If this fraud sells anything, his competitor's products will magically measure poorly. We'd need lead test engineers from manufacturers to come and fully audit fraud Majimoomoo's tests from start to finish in the squalor of his garage (a.k.a his test lab...and watch him like a hawk).

This is so out there .. gave me a good laugh. Maybe Revel speakers test well because they are based on research and measurements etc?