Incongruous media coverage of Rittenhouse vs actual testimony

[jinjuku]

Bottom line- if he hadn't been there, this wouldn't have happened. If the DA can't prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt, and it looks like he didn't (unless the jury just wants to pin it on him), he should still be charged with something, maybe voluntary manslaughter-

I believe the Felony 1 charges are umbrella charges and those include manslaughter. BUT self defense is still a defense even for M.S.

Using your same logic:

If Rosenbuam, Huber, Grosskreutz hadn't been there.

 

[jinjuku]

"He said he was “closing the distance between the defendant and I,” when Rittenhouse shot him. He was trying to “do something to prevent myself from being killed and shot.” He said Huber had “just tried wrestling the gun” from Rittenhouse. “I was never trying to kill the defendant,” Grosskreutz testified. “I was trying to preserve my own life.”

Wait, didn't you just type that if Rittenhouse hadn't been there that Grosskreutz wouldn't have been injured. What would have happened if Grosskreutz wasn't there?

I gotta ask for a show of hands: If someone is starting to crank off a rifle do you run away to save your life or run toward the threat? I'm not buying it and I'm doubtful the jury is either.

"Closing the distance" is a euphemism for chasing someone down. It's curated wordplay to somehow distort the visual, objective, record.

Grosskreutz own testimony bares this out when he admitted that he was never faced with the barrel of a rifle until he went from hands up to pulling.

This is about as much benefit of the doubt I can give Grosskreutz based on his own testimony and the fact that he perjured himself:

IMO, based on what I've seen, the hands up was a ruse to enable Grosskreutz to close the distance on Rittenhouse, in order to ensure a kill shot.

IMO Grosskreutz hesitated/lost his nerve/wasn't quick enough/ what ever.

 

[Trell]

I believe the Felony 1 charges are umbrella charges and those include manslaughter. BUT self defense is still a defense even for M.S.

Using your same logic:

If Rosenbuam, Huber, Grosskreutz hadn't been there.

His intent is of major importance in his trail, really.

 

[jinjuku]

His intent is of major importance in his trail, really.

Sorry. Come again? Felony 1 murder means premeditation. I don't think there was premeditation.

I think the DA was politically pressured into level 1 charging and it was a mistake. Manslaughter has a lower bar for the prosecution but there is still the affirmative self-defense.

 

[Trell]

Sorry. Come again? Felony 1 murder means premeditation. I don't think there was premeditation.

I think the DA was politically pressured into level 1 charging and it was a mistake. Manslaughter has a lower bar for the prosecution but there is still the affirmative self-defense.

Why are you confounded? Intent matters in whatever crime you are convicted for and is reflected in the sentencing, in theory at least. So the prosecutors have several charges, which is common.

He is certainly not an innocent bystander that just by bad luck was at that place.

 

[jinjuku]

Why are you confounded? Intent matters in whatever crime you are convicted for and is reflected in the sentencing, in theory at least.

He is certainly not an innocent bystander that just by bad luck was at that place.

I understand intent matters. I'm just having a hard time understanding, even early on, where the prosecution thought Kyle was premeditated in all of this.

IMO, the DA over charged and it was a mistake.

 

[jinjuku]

Just saw CNN's coverage of the 'racist joke' made by the judge... Really?

 

[Trell]

I understand intent matters. I'm just having a hard time understanding, even early on, where the prosecution thought Kyle was premeditated in all of this.

IMO, the DA over charged and it was a mistake.

Perhaps the prosecutors are not good at their job?

Edit: As I wrote in an earlier post "This is a white heavily armed racist 17 year old man that travels to protests by black people. Intent matters and he should not go free."

This should not go unpunished, in my opinion.

 

[jinjuku]

Perhaps the prosecutors are not good at their job?

They don't even know what their own witnesses are going to say on the stand. The McGuiness and Grosskreutz testimony was a Charlie Foxtrot.

It was that point that I was entertaining the idea that the prosecution was working on the defense behalf.

 

[jinjuku]

BTW I love your HT room....

 

[Danzilla31]

Just saw CNN's coverage of the 'racist joke' made by the judge... Really?

Back on topic here's another good take on your concerns related to how the media is reacting in this trial and why the media has gotten like this. Both left and right wing media to be fair they both do it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Media is entertainment primarily keep in mind, each outlet flavored by their supporters....just the facts ma'am. Just started to read some on the subject this morning, starting with the judge's poor taste in choice of words....and clothing.

 

[Danzilla31]

Back on topic here's another good take on your concerns related to how the media is reacting in this trial and why the media has gotten like this. Both left and right wing media to be fair they both do it.

I really think she has some very great points.

And for the record I side with dems on the working class disparity.

I also completely side with them on the need for police reform. Everything she said was accurate 100% accurate I've seen that same research and same data.

And on that @shadyJ I completely agree with you on protestors not rioters they are protesting for a reason and the data supports them

I'm just been so very very very very very very very frustrated (you can't tell I'm frustrated right? Lol) with the solutions that have been presented so far that just seem to make our problems worse. Even less safe for the average American citizen of all races.

Maybe she is right maybe it is because the majority of people who are trying to fix our problems and or report on them have indeed become part of the elites. And are no longer in touch with what the average working class of all races are dealing with at a certain level.

Still @shadyJ I apologize if I took some of that frustration out on you or even democrats in general in this thread for that matter.

 

[Danzilla31]

They don't even know what their own witnesses are going to say on the stand. The McGuiness and Grosskreutz testimony was a Charlie Foxtrot.

It was that point that I was entertaining the idea that the prosecution was working on the defense behalf.

I was literally thinking the same thing I remember when the prosecutor did that face palm and I was like you just gift wrapped the whole trial for the defense.

Also when the prosecution pulled that whole attempt at his remaing silent crap I was like are you deliberately trying to go for a mistrial here?

 

[shadyJ]

Still @shadyJ I apologize if I took some of that frustration out on you or even democrats in general in this thread for that matter.

Lol, I don't count myself as a Democrat, so I was wondering why you attributed Democratic positions to me. Anyway, no apology is warranted; we are in the steam vent after all, where it's OK to vehemently disagree with each other.

Per Rittenhouse, if I were on the jury, I would probably be forced to give him the benefit of the doubt, but his very presence at that place at that time and carrying a loaded AR15 speaks for itself. Again, I am not defending rioters here; it looks like the particular individuals that he shot pretty much earned their bullet holes.

 

[highfigh]

Wait, didn't you just type that if Rittenhouse hadn't been there that Grosskreutz wouldn't have been injured. What would have happened if Grosskreutz wasn't there?

I gotta ask for a show of hands: If someone is starting to crank off a rifle do you run away to save your life or run toward the threat? I'm not buying it and I'm doubtful the jury is either.

"Closing the distance" is a euphemism for chasing someone down. It's curated wordplay to somehow distort the visual, objective, record.

Grosskreutz own testimony bares this out when he admitted that he was never faced with the barrel of a rifle until he went from hands up to pulling.

This is about as much benefit of the doubt I can give Grosskreutz based on his own testimony and the fact that he perjured himself:

IMO, based on what I've seen, the hands up was a ruse to enable Grosskreutz to close the distance on Rittenhouse, in order to ensure a kill shot.

IMO Grosskreutz hesitated/lost his nerve/wasn't quick enough/ what ever.

I think the root of the incidents needs to be examined- Rittenhouse went because he wanted to insert himself into the situation, regardless of the fact that he wasn't needed. He went as a minor, during a curfew. That alone would normally get him arrested for the curfew violation and the judge has dropped that charge. Next, is the weapons violation- as a minor, he can't just go into public and carry a gun- that's not legal, although he could hunt with family members, AFAIK. He isn't supposed to hunt people.

OK, if Grosskreutz hadn't been there, who knows what would have happened? It's impossible to know, but Rittenhouse broke several laws. Grosskreutz is full of shyte, IMO. As you and I both mentioned, heading toward a thread is stupid and yes, Rittenhouse may have been defending himself, but he didn't shoot until GG dropped his hand. He said the rifle misfired, I haven't seen anyone back up that comment but apparently, after Rittenhouse cleared and re-racked it, he dropped his hand and was shot. He shouldn't have chased anyone and as I wrote, he's to blame, too. However, being there illegally with an illegal gun isn't excusable. One of the things we don't know is whether Rittenhouse had any interaction with the three before shooting them.

I agree- Grosskreutz approached, yet he said he didn't shoot "because I'm not that kind of person". Bullcrap.

 

[highfigh]

They don't even know what their own witnesses are going to say on the stand. The McGuiness and Grosskreutz testimony was a Charlie Foxtrot.

It was that point that I was entertaining the idea that the prosecution was working on the defense behalf.

It's entirely possible that the prosecutors coached him, but he went off-script for some reason that we may never know. If I were the DA, I would be going after him just for carrying a gun when his permit had expired, but if he was open-carrying, he was legal.

Grosskreutz Circuit Court cases, including one of carrying while intoxicated and another OWI that was dismissed, for some reason- it was his 2nd-

Wisconsin Circuit Court Access

wcca.wicourts.gov

 

[Danzilla31]

Lol, I don't count myself as a Democrat, so I was wondering why you attributed Democratic positions to me. Anyway, no apology is warranted; we are in the steam vent after all, where it's OK to vehemently disagree with each other.

Per Rittenhouse, if I were on the jury, I would probably be forced to give him the benefit of the doubt, but his very presence at that place at that time and carrying a loaded AR15 speaks for itself. Again, I am not defending rioters here; it looks like the particular individuals that he shot pretty much earned their bullet holes.

Well that's what I get for ASSuming right?

 

[jinjuku]

I think the root of the incidents needs to be examined- Rittenhouse went because he wanted to insert himself into the situation, regardless of the fact that he wasn't needed.

You are attempting to turn on the oven and bake only one goose.

Rosenbaum, Huber, Grosskreutz went because they wanted to insert themselves regardless of the fact they weren't needed.

In what world did they not have personal agency in all of this? Looking at the footage it's their own stupidity that created these outcomes. There were 1000's of other people Rittenhouse didn't shoot.

 

[jinjuku]

after Rittenhouse cleared and re-racked it, he (Grosskreutz) dropped his hand and was shot

What is your understanding / interpretation of 'dropped his hand'? There has been a lot of word play to beat around the bush to do anything but call a spade a spade.

I have my understanding. Just curious what yours is.