Is it time to Ditch Vinyl?

[Auditor55]

I succumbed to the vinyl revival about 4 years ago thinking that the technology of it had perhaps improved to eliminate the snap, crackle, and pop of it all. Purchasing a new Technics SL-1210GR, a Jico Boron SAS stylus for one of my Shure V15V-MR Cartridges, as well as a dozen new LPs, I thought, YES, nirvana here I come; but, the experience I expected has not yet come to fruition and I suspect I will not reach the desired destination from it; yet, on occasion, I have indeed sensed a life-like presence from vinyl, which I have not gleaned from CDs or SACDs of same content. One example of this "presence" is heard from an Eagles Greatest Hits LP I bought just a few weeks ago. At any rate, vinyl play is mostly just novelty for me these days, since streaming Apple Music satisfies in all manner of quality and convenience.

Placebo.

 

[Eppie]

Placebo.

No, going to disagree with that one. This isn't simply about which technology is better. A lot of it comes down to mixing and recording engineering. I have heard some remixed classic albums where I definitely prefer the original LP over the remix. Others have been a nice improvement over the original. While I'm on the side that believes that digital is superior when all things are treated equal, I don't think it would be all that hard to find an LP that sounds superior to it's digital counterpart, even with the occasional pop and click. Now if you were comparing identical mixes on LP vs CD, then I would agree that expectation bias comes into play.

 

[Auditor55]

No, going to disagree with that one. This isn't simply about which technology is better. A lot of it comes down to mixing and recording engineering. I have heard some remixed classic albums where I definitely prefer the original LP over the remix. Others have been a nice improvement over the original. While I'm on the side that believes that digital is superior when all things are treated equal, I don't think it would be all that hard to find an LP that sounds superior to it's digital counterpart, even with the occasional pop and click. Now if you were comparing identical mixes on LP vs CD, then I would agree that expectation bias come into play.

The very fact that vinyl has audible cracks and pops let me know it's less than high fidelity. It's a reminder that it's an inferior medium. I know audiophiles like vinyl because it's warmer (noise), but I prefer the clear, noiseless and dynamics that digital formats like CD give me over vinyl.

 

[Mikado463]

The very fact that vinyl has audible cracks and pops let me know it's less than high fidelity. It's a reminder that it's an inferior medium. I know audiophiles like vinyl because it's warmer (noise), but I prefer the clear, noiseless and dynamics that digital formats like CD give me over vinyl.

while I understand your point there are those of us that know how to minimize pops, crackles and such. Regardless, good luck trying to find a 'CD' of this superb recording .......

Heat Wave (Ahmad Jamal album) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[cpp]

Spinning some Dire Straits while I read this interesting thread.

 

[Mikado463]

Spinning some Dire Straits while I read this interesting thread.

nice VPI !

 

[sterling shoote]

No, going to disagree with that one. This isn't simply about which technology is better. A lot of it comes down to mixing and recording engineering. I have heard some remixed classic albums where I definitely prefer the original LP over the remix. Others have been a nice improvement over the original. While I'm on the side that believes that digital is superior when all things are treated equal, I don't think it would be all that hard to find an LP that sounds superior to it's digital counterpart, even with the occasional pop and click. Now if you were comparing identical mixes on LP vs CD, then I would agree that expectation bias comes into play.

While the this vs that banter rages, some, like you, having well reasoned opinions gleaned from a lot of experience with recorded music media and the equipment to needed to play such media, understand that the concept of "better" has not been won by either LP or CD enthusiast camps. There are conundrums galore, which preclude any camp from declaring victory. Sometimes I am even surprised when the media I suspect will entertain better falls short of the expectation. For example, I just bought The Dark Side Of The Moon in 5.1 SACD. I generally prefer 5.1 over stereo; but, this multi-channel SACD is a mess, a totally illogical juxtaposition of effects, which makes listening just plain nauseating.

 

[sterling shoote]

The very fact that vinyl has audible cracks and pops let me know it's less than high fidelity. It's a reminder that it's an inferior medium. I know audiophiles like vinyl because it's warmer (noise), but I prefer the clear, noiseless and dynamics that digital formats like CD give me over vinyl.

What snap, crackle, and pops let you know is the LP is defective, dirty, or full of static. These anomalies preclude me from satisfaction with LPs in general; however, there are many instances where the sound of LPs do indeed sound better to me than the same recording on CD, or SACD, where better is mostly about: presence, airiness, and dynamic range. On the other hand, overall, I gravitate to 5.1 SACDs. After listening to multi-channel going back to stereo is like going back to a Coke that has gone flat, no fizz. At any rate, no placebos here, just conundrums, which are about as big a deal as how a shaved headed man combs his hair.

 

[Auditor55]

What snap, crackle, and pops let you know is the LP is defective, dirty, or full of static. These anomalies preclude me from satisfaction with LPs in general; however, there are many instances where the sound of LPs do indeed sound better to me than the same recording on CD, or SACD, where better is mostly about: presence, airiness, and dynamic range. On the other hand, overall, I gravitate to 5.1 SACDs. After listening to multi-channel going back to stereo is like going back to a Coke that has gone flat, no fizz. At any rate, no placebos here, just conundrums, which are about as big a deal as how a shaved headed man combs his hair.

When you have a moment, please listen to this discussion, starting at 20.45 to the 26.00 point of the video, as it is a part that is very relevant to this topic.

We might love vinyl and there are some recordings that sound better to us than what they do on CD, but it's because they are high-fidelity recordings.

 

[Eppie]

When you have a moment, please listen to this discussion, starting at 20.45 to the 26.00 point of the video, as it is a part that is very relevant to this topic.

We might love vinyl and there are some recordings that sound better to us than what they do on CD, but it's because they are high-fidelity recordings.

Some great information in that presentation. (I had to laugh too about the Ampeg in the attic.)
EDIT: I ended up listening to the whole thing. Recommended!

 

[WookieGR]

I love streaming my DSD64 / DSD128 files from my server to my Denon. I can't imagine starting a collection of vinyl now with all the space it takes up and the cost in more equipment. Even though I am tempted to from time to time. I grew up in a hippie commune in the 70's and the house we lived in was wall to wall, floor to ceiling LP's everywhere you could see. I'm sure, now as an adult the rooms would be a lot smaller then they were to me then.

 

[Mikado463]

When you have a moment, please listen to this discussion, starting at 20.45 to the 26.00 point of the video, as it is a part that is very relevant to this topic.

Point made to which I agree and I have stated many times over, that starting out today with analog makes little sense but this old fart and his 1500 or so LP's still enjoys the ritual !

 

[sterling shoote]

When you have a moment, please listen to this discussion, starting at 20.45 to the 26.00 point of the video, as it is a part that is very relevant to this topic.

We might love vinyl and there are some recordings that sound better to us than what they do on CD, but it's because they are high-fidelity recordings.

i used to produce radio commercials on reel to reel, then went to DAT in 1992 (2 Sony PCM-7010F's controlled by a Sony RMD-7200 auto editor). This tech was better in all manner than reel to reel; thus, better in all manner than vinyl. At any rate, while I have no impression that vinyl technology out performs today's digital technology, I do have some LPs which I prefer to listen to rather than their CD or SACD versions.

 

[3db]

i used to produce radio commercials on reel to reel, then went to DAT in 1992 (2 Sony PCM-7010F's controlled by a Sony RMD-7200 auto editor). This tech was better in all manner than reel to reel; thus, better in all manner than vinyl. At any rate, while I have no impression that vinyl technology out performs today's digital technology, I do have some LPs which I prefer to listen to rather than their CD or SACD versions.

Yep. It all boils down to the mastering and production.

 

[lovinthehd]

i used to produce radio commercials on reel to reel, then went to DAT in 1992 (2 Sony PCM-7010F's controlled by a Sony RMD-7200 auto editor). This tech was better in all manner than reel to reel; thus, better in all manner than vinyl. At any rate, while I have no impression that vinyl technology out performs today's digital technology, I do have some LPs which I prefer to listen to rather than their CD or SACD versions.

Did you do multich 5.1 or beyond or mono or 2ch stereo or ?

 

[timba-n-tango]

Amen...

 

[davidscott]

I'm still good with the occasional LP listening on my 2 channel stereo. I have about a hundred or so LPs but I don't plan on buying any more.

 

[surroundguy]

I didn't read all the replies, so excuse me if I am repeating what someone else has said. The fact is if you’re in the car with all the road noise, in the back yard with guests at a party, or roaming around the house while listening to music, hi-rez isn't going to make the least bit of difference. I don't have any 8-tracks any more (my '72 GTO had an 8-Track player), but I do have vinyl, cassettes, reel-to-reel, Laser Discs, CDs, SACDs, DVD Audio discs, Beta tapes, VHS tapes (you can make quite good recordings because of the helical scan if they track well, the Beta machine has the ability to record digital bitstreams), and probably something else I'm forgetting. The guests in the back yard aren't going to give hoot what format is being played as long as they are having a good time.

On the other hand, if I'm gonna plop down in the sweet spot of my Marantz/Klipsch 7.2.4 system, of course I want to listen to the highest rez available.

That being said, I can think of 10s of situations where "inferior" quality recordings would be just fine. How about background music at work? Are you going to take your 40K system to the beach? I think not! A cassette would be just fine with all the noise going on. Even if you had a hi-rez portable player, unless you are listening to it with great headphones, no one else can enjoy it without some "cheapo" battery operated speakers.

So stick that in your pipe… ; - )

 

[3db]

Oh, an 'influencer', eh?

Only for the lemmings among us who can't think for themselves.

 

[Mikado463]

I didn't read all the replies, so excuse me if I am repeating what someone else has said. The fact is if you’re in the car with all the road noise, in the back yard with guests at a party, or roaming around the house while listening to music, hi-rez isn't going to make the least bit of difference. I don't have any 8-tracks any more (my '72 GTO had an 8-Track player), but I do have vinyl, cassettes, reel-to-reel, Laser Discs, CDs, SACDs, DVD Audio discs, Beta tapes, VHS tapes (you can make quite good recordings because of the helical scan if they track well, the Beta machine has the ability to record digital bitstreams), and probably something else I'm forgetting. The guests in the back yard aren't going to give hoot what format is being played as long as they are having a good time.

On the other hand, if I'm gonna plop down in the sweet spot of my Marantz/Klipsch 7.2.4 system, of course I want to listen to the highest rez available.

That being said, I can think of 10s of situations where "inferior" quality recordings would be just fine. How about background music at work? Are you going to take your 40K system to the beach? I think not! A cassette would be just fine with all the noise going on. Even if you had a hi-rez portable player, unless you are listening to it with great headphones, no one else can enjoy it without some "cheapo" battery operated speakers.

So stick that in your pipe… ; - )

WTF does that have to do with playing Lp's ??????