Speaker cable thought

[Pogre]

Beware of the crystalline nature of your own residence.

Be aware that the subject of speaker cables and skin effect have been beat to death, buried, dug back up, beat some more and buried again on these forums. Yet for some reason someone always seems to want to dig it back up for another beating.

Glass houses? Haw..? Please explain...

 

[aceinc]

Be aware that the subject of speaker cables and skin effect have been beat to death, buried, dug back up, beat some more and buried again on these forums. Yet for some reason someone always seems to want to dig it back up for another beating.

Glass houses? Haw..? Please explain...

Everyone lives in one in some area of their life.

Since the hypothetical is settled in your mind, let's discuss the practical. Should I be concerned about running 4 channels of audio using 12 awg zip cord 30-40 feet where they are touching. If so, what can I do to maintain their close proximity while reducing any issues the proximity may introduce.

For context the sensitivity of two of the speakers are ~83 DB @4 ohms, the other two are ~90 DB @8 ohms, The amplifiers will produce in excess of 200 watts at 8 ohms and 400 watts at 4 ohms. I mention this because if there is going to be cross talk, it may be relevant.

 

[davidscott]

If you're concerned about improving sound quality in general, educate yourself on what features make an audible difference in loud speakers. Speakers are where the 'rubber hits the road'. All your efforts at learning more about speaker cables is wasting your time.

Another thought is that inferior source material and equipment can only be amplified downstream to the speakers no matter how good they are. System balance is the key and I'm not talking about cables.

 

[Speedskater]

Their proximity for two channel stereo is of no concern. The amount of cross-talk will be trivial.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

aceinc,

Just use what you've already got and enjoy.

 

[aceinc]

If you're concerned about improving sound quality in general, educate yourself on what features make an audible difference in loud speakers. Speakers are where the 'rubber hits the road'. All your efforts at learning more about speaker cables is wasting your time.

Audioholics considers me a Junior Audioholic because I have not posted much on this forum. My first "audiophile" speakers were a pair of Ohm Fs which I bought used in the 1980s.

My current main system is reasonably well balanced with Emotiva amplifiers, Marantz sound processor, Magnepan speakers in the system. One area I am working on is acoustics, and I have posted on Ethan Winer's forum about that. I also have a tube/Klipsch Cornwall system, and two other "daily driver" systems for watching TV and the like.

For anyone who will listen I have always suggested this hobby has a hierarchical structure. You start with the things which can make the most difference first. The two most important items IMO are speakers and acoustics. Then comes amplification (electronics in general) and source.

Where do cables (interconnects and speaker cables) fit in? After everything else. Where do power cables fit in? After you have hit the lotto and had too much tequila.

Assuming all of your cables are of moderate quality and not been dragged behind the Rambler for 500 miles.

 

[Pogre]

Everyone lives in one in some area of their life.

Ah, so basically a non sequitur then. Mkay...

Since the hypothetical is settled in your mind, let's discuss the practical. Should I be concerned about running 4 channels of audio using 12 awg zip cord 30-40 feet where they are touching. If so, what can I do to maintain their close proximity while reducing any issues the proximity may introduce.

For context the sensitivity of two of the speakers are ~83 DB @4 ohms, the other two are ~90 DB @8 ohms, The amplifiers will produce in excess of 200 watts at 8 ohms and 400 watts at 4 ohms. I mention this because if there is going to be cross talk, it may be relevant.

The concerns you raise are so small they can practically be considered audibly inconsequential. You have nothing to fuss about. 12 awg should be fine for 30-40 feet, but if you're unsure go with 10 awg and enjoy your system.

 

[Pogre]

Where do cables (interconnects and speaker cables) fit in? After everything else. Where do power cables fit in?

Aside from aesthetics? They don't. If you wanna spend your lotto money on audio jewelry then by all means, have at it and enjoy the bling.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Is 2 conductor twisted pair, 99% pure copper, shielded and jacketed,........better than non twisted pair speaker wire w 99% pure copper wire and non shielded??

And the answer is......Yes.

 

[lovinthehd]

Audioholics considers me a Junior Audioholic because I have not posted much on this forum. My first "audiophile" speakers were a pair of Ohm Fs which I bought used in the 1980s.

My current main system is reasonably well balanced with Emotiva amplifiers, Marantz sound processor, Magnepan speakers in the system. One area I am working on is acoustics, and I have posted on Ethan Winer's forum about that. I also have a tube/Klipsch Cornwall system, and two other "daily driver" systems for watching TV and the like.

For anyone who will listen I have always suggested this hobby has a hierarchical structure. You start with the things which can make the most difference first. The two most important items IMO are speakers and acoustics. Then comes amplification (electronics in general) and source.

Where do cables (interconnects and speaker cables) fit in? After everything else. Where do power cables fit in? After you have hit the lotto and had too much tequila.

Assuming all of your cables are of moderate quality and not been dragged behind the Rambler for 500 miles.

Why would amp/electronics be more important than source? Cables and power cables aren't really part of the quality equation unless they're inadequate.

 

[Gmoney]

BTW, for all the people who throw rocks, every speaker cable in all of my systems are some form of 12 gauge zip cable with banana plugs on the ends. The purpose of this discussion is to become more knowledgeable, and not to take the statements by Gene, Paul, Danny (Ritchie) or anyone else as the gospel. I realize to some this is a religious argument, in which I consider myself an agnostic, and am willing to listen to all sides trying to understand what is the reality.

Gene's video shows there are differences, which he indicates are not audible, but there are differences. It would appear that skin effect starting at 10khz would have some impact on wires larger than ~24 gauge. I am Not suggesting whether this is audible or not, but I won't hide from the facts.

You more than welcome to throw " BTW for all the people who throw rocks" if there is one thing that can be said about AH, is All of us Peoples on Genes forum have taken our fare share of "rocks" Speaking for myself cause well I get hit a Lot cause I likea da Ladys, oh wait another Thread. My bad, Sorry! I get from AH as much as I give out and Deserving So. But with that said, Not much if anything about Audio will get passed some of the older and more informed members of AH. Now if You would like to test the waters with our Leader Gene, May I introduce you to Gene DellaSala? Not being funny about the last sentence. But if You do, better bring your A-game. A note, don't take to Seriously some of the Sly remarks made on your Thread. Your are more than welcome to to stay here on AH. Plenty of fun to be had, Specs, are what they are You seem to know about Audio, cable's and so on. In the end it is Your hobby do as You please with it. Happy Listening.

 

[aceinc]

You more than welcome to throw " BTW for all the people who throw rocks" if there is one thing that can be said about AH, is All of us Peoples on Genes forum have taken our fare share of "rocks" Speaking for myself cause well I get hit a Lot cause I likea da Ladys, oh wait another Thread. My bad, Sorry! I get from AH as much as I give out and Deserving So. But with that said, Not much if anything about Audio will get passed some of the older and more informed members of AH. Now if You would like to test the waters with our Leader Gene, May I introduce you to Gene DellaSala? Not being funny about the last sentence. But if You do, better bring your A-game. A note, don't take to Seriously some of the Sly remarks made on your Thread. Your are more than welcome to to stay here on AH. Plenty of fun to be had, Specs, are what they are You seem to know about Audio, cable's and so on. In the end it is Your hobby do as You please with it. Happy Listening.

Thanks. I generally do not throw rocks except in self defense.

One quote I have taken to heart over the years is;

"If you have a hero, look again: you have diminished yourself in some way." - Sheldon Kopp

I apply this quote to all manner of folks such as Gene, Danny, Paul and many other "Oracles of the one true audiophile way." Sheldon Kopp wrote a book called "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" which discusses learning from people without becoming their disciple.

While I try to listen and absorb knowledge from many sources, I do have a filter which rejects things. To Danny Ritchie, I probably fit into the Flat Earth group, to folks here I am probably viewed as gullible to snake oil. As my father used to say to me "You're to ignorant to be insulted." While I am usually not upset by slings & arrows, I do find knee jerk dogmatic responses counterproductive to a free exchange of ideas. But it does make for refining a great echo chamber.

 

[aceinc]

Why would amp/electronics be more important than source? Cables and power cables aren't really part of the quality equation unless they're inadequate.

I could reverse the question, why do you consider source to be more important than other electronics?

Perhaps my sources have always been of sufficient quality they have satisfied my needs. Without good preamp/amps a great source is wasted. Without a good source great amps/preamps won't do any good. However in moving backwards from the speakers & room acoustics, you need an amplifier which works well with the speakers & room you have.

I believe (it has been my experience) that most mid-hi fi amplification when used within their specs will be neutral and perform well. However if you choose a Decware Zen Triode amplifier to drive your Magnepan 30.7s, Led Zeppelin's "When the Levee Breaks" or Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" will not have the same authority as it would with a pair of kilowatt mono blocks, irrespective of the Turntable or DAC.

 

[lovinthehd]

I could reverse the question, why do you consider source to be more important than other electronics?

Perhaps my sources have always been of sufficient quality they have satisfied my needs. Without good preamp/amps a great source is wasted. Without a good source great amps/preamps won't do any good. However in moving backwards from the speakers & room acoustics, you need an amplifier which works well with the speakers & room you have.

I believe (it has been my experience) that most mid-hi fi amplification when used within their specs will be neutral and perform well. However if you choose a Decware Zen Triode amplifier to drive your Magnepan 30.7s, Led Zeppelin's "When the Levee Breaks" or Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D minor" will not have the same authority as it would with a pair of kilowatt mono blocks, irrespective of the Turntable or DAC.

Well, just more because the source is the beginning point in the hardware chain as it is the thing the actual recording is being played on/thru before passing it further up the line. What is mid-hi-fi? That some sort of THD threshold you have in mind?

 

[Gmoney]

Thanks. I generally do not throw rocks except in self defense.

One quote I have taken to heart over the years is;

"If you have a hero, look again: you have diminished yourself in some way." - Sheldon Kopp

I apply this quote to all manner of folks such as Gene, Danny, Paul and many other "Oracles of the one true audiophile way." Sheldon Kopp wrote a book called "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" which discusses learning from people without becoming their disciple.

While I try to listen and absorb knowledge from many sources, I do have a filter which rejects things. To Danny Ritchie, I probably fit into the Flat Earth group, to folks here I am probably viewed as gullible to snake oil. As my father used to say "You're to ignorant to be insulted." While I am usually not upset by slings & arrows, I do find knee jerk dogmatic responses counterproductive to a free exchange of ideas. But it does make for refining a great echo chamber.

"if you have a hero" it's called respect, on AH. A Proven fact isn't respect, it's Knowledge of a proven Science. Nice try though.

 

[Pogre]

To Danny Ritchie, I probably fit into the Flat Earth group, to folks here I am probably viewed as gullible to snake oil.

Only if you're gullible to snake oil. The fact that you're here asking questions tells me that perhaps you are not? I dunno. I just met you. I try not to presume things...

Do you think the earth is flat?

 

[aceinc]

Only if you're gullible to snake oil. The fact that you're here asking questions tells me that perhaps you are not? I dunno. I just met you. I try not to presume things...

Do you think the earth is flat?

No, more of an Oblate spheroid.

Gullible, meh, I haven't bought any swamp land yet, although I own 48 acres of desert in Nevada near Lovelock.

 

[aceinc]

"if you have a hero" it's called respect, on AH. A Proven fact isn't respect, it's Knowledge of a proven Science. Nice try though.

I respect most everyone and I generally try to keep my disagreements & rants about topics, not people. I do not however idolize or become a sycophant. People are all fallible, you, Gene and especially me. Doesn't mean you should disrespect them, nor that you can't learn from them.

 

[Gmoney]

I respect most everyone and I generally try to keep my disagreements & rants about topics, not people. I do not however idolize or become a sycophant. People are all fallible, you, Gene and especially me. Doesn't mean you should disrespect them, nor that you can't learn from them.

So in a word and you have used many Wow! So you believe that AH is "Cult" like? What's your point? Seems to me and only speaking for myself when I say this, your whole thread has been nothing but gaslighting. So you have the Resources to buy land filled with sand. Yet your thinking of or maybe getting ready to by swamp land? Why would you go and buy a swamp. You already have a sand box in Nevada. Better hope that Russian syndicate doesn't hit one of those water pipelines out in Nevada cause that swamp land your thinking of buying Won't be for sale at any price. How hot does it really get over in Nevada? Celsius or Fahrenheit your choice.
I'm out, Cheers!

 

[Trebdp83]

What the hell did I miss here? Heretics.