LFE LPF vs Crossover Frequency

[Trebdp83]

So, is there a setting that plays the LFE content on both the sub and mains set to large?? Is that LFE+Mains?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Yes, check the note on the bottom of the page from the manual I just posted from Denon. This behavior is the same on Onkyos with speakers set to Full Band(Large) and “Double Bass” activated.

 

[Pogre]

View attachment 46781

I understand all of the words, yet somehow that does little to alleviate my confusion... lol.

 

[Trebdp83]

Try it guys. Set speakers to Large and put it in stereo mode. Leave it at LFE. You should not get anything from subs. Play some 5.1 content. Should still be nothing from sub. Then, set it to LFE+Main. Subs should come on. Might be a bit different in some modes on Denons. But it works that way on Onkyo with “Double Bass.” Don’t make me dust off one of my Denons. Cuz’ I will, for science!

 

[Trell]

Try it guys. Set speakers to Large and put it in stereo mode. Leave it at LFE. You should not get anything from subs. Play some 5.1 content. Should still be nothing from sub. Then, set it to LFE+Main. Subs should come on. Might be a bit different in some modes on Denons. But it works that way on Onkyo with “Double Bass.” Don’t make me dust off one of my Denons. Cuz’ I will, for science!

More than a few have REW and an UMIK-1, and with ASIO4All (on Windows) you can use the tone generator to send content to the LFE channel or one front speaker along with the LFE channel. That should be enough to make some tests.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yeah, but I want @Pogre to lean back in his chair and fondle the surround on his sub.

 

[Pogre]

Try it guys. Set speakers to Large and put it in stereo mode. Leave it at LFE. You should not get anything from subs. Play some 5.1 content. Should still be nothing from sub. Then, set it to LFE+Main. Subs should come on. Might be a bit different in some modes on Denons. But it works that way on Onkyo with “Double Bass.” Don’t make me dust off one of my Denons. Cuz’ I will, for science!

Yeah, I just got done playing with it. It's basically there (LFE + Mains) strictly for running your main speakers full range while still using a sub.

Which I wouldn't recommend unless you have true full range speakers and use a really low LPF. You lose bass management and some control over your fr that way.

 

[Trell]

Yeah, but I want @Pogre to lean back in his chair and fondle the surround on his sub.

He needs some serious eye protection goggles, though

Dude: Hey Pogre, rough night on town?
Progre: No, not at all.
Dude: Your right eye don't look so good.
Pogre: I was too close to my new subwoofer while testing it.
Dude: Yeah, sure
Dude whisper to fellow dude: He got a hard hitting wife!

 

[Pogre]

He needs some serious eye protection goggles, though

Dude: Hey Pogre, rough night on town?
Progre: No, not at all.
Dude: Your right eye don't look so good.
Pogre: I was too close to my new subwoofer while testing it.
Dude: Yeah, sure
Dude whisper to fellow dude: He got a hard hitting wife!

On a real bad night she'll have to tell me twice and I end up with 2 black eyes...

 

[Pogre]

Wait, so I had it right about stereo then.

Okay, so for stereo music. Does LFE + Mains or "Double Bass" mean that your main speakers receive a full range signal (bypassing the crossover) along with the subs playing bass redirected below the crossover at the same time? That's how I currently understand it. I think...

I was off about 5.1 tho.

Then for 5.1 content. Do the mains get a full range signal bypassing the crossover while the rest of the speakers remain high passed and the sub plays only LFE?

 

[Trell]

Wait, so I had it right about stereo then.

I was off about stereo tho.

It means you can buy another identical or bigger subwoofer, and perhaps a hard hat as well.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wait, so I had it right about stereo then.

I was off about stereo tho.

When doing the LFE&Mains thing I believe the set crossover still does some limiting rather than being bypassed....

 

[Pogre]

I never use it so it really doesn't matter to me. I just can't believe I'm having such a hard time getting my head around it.

 

[Trebdp83]

Basically, if fronts are set to Large(Full Band), as well as center channel in a surround setup, LARGE(Full Band) speakers are sent the full signal inluding LFE, bypassing the crossover for those channels. Anything below the crossover point in, say Small surrounds, will be sent to the Large(Full Band) speakers, not the sub. Getting a signal to the subs would require LFE+Main(Double Bass on Onkyos) to be on. If all speakers are set to Small(40hz crossover or higher on Onkyos) then it is a non-issue as subs will get the LFE information AS WELL AS the bass from other channels based on their crossover.

I think the feature is a mess and needs fixing. LFE information in the LFE channel should always be sent to the sub regardless of the Large(Full Band) setting of the other speakers. But, it gets cut off and LFE+Main(Double Bass) has to be turned on for the sub to get a signal when the other speakers are set Large(Full Band.)

 

[lovinthehd]

Basically, if fronts are set to Large(Full Band), as well as center channel in a surround setup, LARGE(Full Band) speakers are sent the full signal inluding LFE, bypassing the crossover for those channels. Anything below the crossover point in, say Small surrounds, will be sent to the Large(Full Band) speakers, not the sub. Getting a signal to the subs would require LFE+Main(Double Bass on Onkyos) to be on. If all speakers are set to Small(40hz crossover or higher on Onkyos) then it is a non-issue as subs will get the LFE information AS WELL AS the bass from other channels based on their crossover.

I think the feature is a mess and needs fixing. LFE information in the LFE channel should always be sent to the sub regardless of the Large(Full Band) setting of the other speakers. But, it gets cut off and LFE+Main(Double Bass) has to be turned on for the sub to get a signal when the other speakers are set Large(Full Band.)

What if you just have real full range speakers and no subs?

 

[sterling shoote]

Bass management is not universal or standardized as are the principles of it. In other words, you need to read your AVR/Pre-Pro Manual and then experiment.

 

[Trebdp83]

Same thing. Except you would select NO to “subwoofer used” in the speaker configuration settings. Anything set to small would have it’s lower signal sent to the Large(Full Band) speakers and the LFE+Main(Double Bass) setting would be disabled. I’ve confirmed all of this with my Onkyo but not a Denon as I thought one of you all would do it and I wouldn’t have to tear my setup apart, again. I’m sure there are variations between all manufacturers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Same thing. Except you would select NO to “subwoofer used” in the speaker configuration settings. Anything set to small would have it’s lower signal sent to the Large(Full Band) speakers and the LFE+Main(Double Bass) setting would be disabled. I’ve confirmed all of this with my Onkyo but not a Denon as I thought one of you all would do it and I wouldn’t have to tear my setup apart, again. I’m sure there are variations between all manufacturers.

Pretty sure my older Onkyo (with Audyssey!) is basically the same as my Denons without the terminology....as you mentioned before. I've never had speakers that can do what subs can, so really a moot point for me.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Just when I think I have it figured out... lol

Okay, so for stereo music. Does LFE + Mains or "Double Bass" mean that your main speakers receive a full range signal (bypassing the crossover) along with the subs playing bass redirected below the crossover at the same time? That's how I currently understand it. I think...

Then for 5.1 content. Do the mains get a full range signal bypassing the crossover while the rest of the speakers remain high passed and the sub plays only LFE?

My god man. It seems so simple to explain but it's not. It took me 15 minutes tryna figure out how to even word my questions...

Damn!!! I look away for one damn minute and a thread blows up lol.
I think it’s being covered pretty well so I won’t muddy the waters, other than to say I’ve never used it either. I have tried it with Onkyo and D/M and didn’t like it. My mains are only rated to 35hz so maybe that’s why I got mud fest. Idk. They do have 12’s in them, for a total of five 12” drivers in my system, and I like them crossed around 50hz. My Marantz only does 40 or 60 so after a long time of being at 80, I’ve gone to 60. 40 just makes me nervous due to their 35hz rating. I’m probably jus being a wuss. As I mentioned before, my REW minidsp stuff has to be loaded onto a desktop pc and hauled out to test anything. And if I could get five fukking minutes to myself...lol
My point earlier was just to kinda define a couple things that I think Eppie was grouping together.

 

[PENG]

Damn!!! I look away for one damn minute and a thread blows up lol.
I think it’s being covered pretty well so I won’t muddy the waters, other than to say I’ve never used it either. I have tried it with Onkyo and D/M and didn’t like it. My mains are only rated to 35hz so maybe that’s why I got mud fest. Idk. They do have 12’s in them, for a total of five 12” drivers in my system, and I like them crossed around 50hz. My Marantz only does 40 or 60 so after a long time of being at 80, I’ve gone to 60. 40 just makes me nervous due to their 35hz rating. I’m probably jus being a wuss. As I mentioned before, my REW minidsp stuff has to be loaded onto a desktop pc and hauled out to test anything. And if I could get five fukking minutes to myself...lol
My point earlier was just to kinda define a couple things that I think Eppie was grouping together.

I quit following this thread after Eppie and Pogre covered everything, settled, done! What exactly is/are still in question?

 

[Trebdp83]

I don’t think anybody who has commented in this thread is confused at all about it but there may be somebody out there who will come upon the thread while searching online about issues with their own setup. They may have set their own speakers to Large(FullBand) but not activated LFE+Main(DoubleBass) and cannot understand why the sub is not active. It may be a help to them and save a few speakers.