Coronavirus

[Mr._Clark]

I've been seeing news reports about a drug that seems to have helped COVID patients at a hospital in Israel. There was no control group and there were only 30 patients, so it is of course not a proven treatment right now.

New Israeli drug cured 29 of 30 moderate/serious COVID cases in days — hospital

Medicine developed at Ichilov moderates immune response, helps prevent deadly cytokine storm, researchers say; 29 of 30 phase 1 trial patients left hospital within 3-5 days

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Swerd]

I've been seeing news reports about a drug that seems to have helped COVID patients at a hospital in Israel. There was no control group and there were only 30 patients, so it is of course not a proven treatment right now.

New Israeli drug cured 29 of 30 moderate/serious COVID cases in days — hospital

Medicine developed at Ichilov moderates immune response, helps prevent deadly cytokine storm, researchers say; 29 of 30 phase 1 trial patients left hospital within 3-5 days

www.timesofisrael.com

You're right, there were only 30 patients and no control group. Furthermore, this was a Phase 1 trial. It's goal is to find a maximum safe dose for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, and to establish a safety profile – to collect a list of toxicities and adverse events that occur in this patient population while taking this drug. These patients were volunteers, but they were not randomly selected.

Any positive disease outcomes that occur in a Phase 1 trial are of course encouraging, but they must not be thought of as a measure of efficacy. I thought that press release read like they had found an exciting and promising treatment. It's wrong and irresponsible to make statement's such as "a huge breakthrough" and "cured 29 of 30 patients" for a Phase 1 trial.

 

[Verdinut]

I've been seeing news reports about a drug that seems to have helped COVID patients at a hospital in Israel. There was no control group and there were only 30 patients, so it is of course not a proven treatment right now.

New Israeli drug cured 29 of 30 moderate/serious COVID cases in days — hospital

Medicine developed at Ichilov moderates immune response, helps prevent deadly cytokine storm, researchers say; 29 of 30 phase 1 trial patients left hospital within 3-5 days

www.timesofisrael.com

I entirely agree with you.. They call 30 patients a numerous group, a real reporter's catchy but misleading headline.

 

[cpp]

Some friends went to Florida and returned last Sunday- both had mild cases before the trip and said that almost nobody wore a mask- they went to restaurants several times and it seems that people in Florida decided to stop wearing masks before the 'Biden is POTUS, so we can re-open the economy' move. California has lifted the mask mandate, too.

I look forward to the negative comments that I expect.

Well as someone that actually lives in Fla, that comment is not actually that far off. What we are seeing down here is the tourist that still come into the state appear to not give a crap about wearing masks. They walk around in large groups with no mask, and what is also interesting is a lot of these people are over 65. I guess they just don't care, if they die or not. And people didn';t stop wearing masks before Biden got elected, alot just feel the GOVT can't tell them what to do. A lot haven;t been wearing masks since Trump didn't wear his. I see the overall majority wearing mask, but once people go into a bar , well mask come off to drink and the bars just don't enforce it , but in Orlando the county sends around strike teams to see who is and who is not following the guidelines, if they catch them well , they sight them and try to get them to comply. ,One thing that has occurred is bars shut down, people out of work and they county is trying to get these bars to just follow the guidelines, but my opinion, stupid people just are just plain arrogant and could careless about those around them or the rules . Oh PS< Fla ( GOV) never had a mask mandate, its was left up to the counties. And this is not just FLA or CA, or TX, its every state in the US.

 

[highfigh]

Well as someone that actually lives in Fla, that comment is not actually that far off. What we are seeing down here is the tourist that still come into the state appear to not give a crap about wearing masks. They walk around in large groups with no mask, and what is also interesting is a lot of these people are over 65. I guess they just don't care, if they die or not. And people didn';t stop wearing masks before Biden got elected, alot just feel the GOVT can't tell them what to do. A lot haven;t been wearing masks since Trump didn't wear his. I see the overall majority wearing mask, but once people go into a bar , well mask come off to drink and the bars just don't enforce it , but in Orlando the county sends around strike teams to see who is and who is not following the guidelines, if they catch them well , they sight them and try to get them to comply. ,One thing that has occurred is bars shut down, people out of work and they county is trying to get these bars to just follow the guidelines, but my opinion, stupid people just are just plain arrogant and could careless about those around them or the rules . Oh PS< Fla ( GOV) never had a mask mandate, its was left up to the counties. And this is not just FLA or CA, or TX, its every state in the US.

Wisconsin has been order to wear masks for months and that was just renewed.

This would be easy if people associated with closed groups, never making contact with the outside- it would have ended as soon as it started but there's always one person who doesn't think the rules apply to them.

 

[cpp]

Wisconsin has been order to wear masks for months and that was just renewed.

This would be easy if people associated with closed groups, never making contact with the outside- it would have ended as soon as it started but there's always one person who doesn't think the rules apply to them.

So very true. A lot of these ( I call them, The I don't care crowd" ) just think this whole thing is over blown. Well Gene on here had Covid, my brother had it ( who is a ENT) he said it was the worst pain he has ever felt in his chest and the fever went nuts. We have a neighbor down the street who kept down playing Covid and all of the CDC guidelines, well that clown finally got covid at a car show, ended up in the ER and in the hospital for 5 days. Today you won't catch him outside without a mask and his hand sanitizer. He is was a pitcure of health, jogs, works out, has never been sick, a none smoker, and now has the lingering aches he never had before.

 

[highfigh]

So very true. A lot of these ( I call them, The I don't care crowd" ) just think this whole thing is over blown. Well Gene on here had Covid, my brother had it ( who is a ENT) he said it was the worst pain he has ever felt in his chest and the fever went nuts. We have a neighbor down the street who kept down playing Covid and all of the CDC guidelines, well that clown finally got covid at a car show, ended up in the ER and in the hospital for 5 days. Today you won't catch him outside without a mask and his hand sanitizer. He is was a pitcure of health, jogs, works out, has never been sick, a none smoker, and now has the lingering aches he never had before.

I know two guys who lost their dad to it and he was said to be healthy before going to the hospital. It's hard to know who will get it, in light of the percentages- 80% won't get it, s small percentage won't show symptoms, a very small percentage will have strong symptoms and not all have the underlying issues. In Wisconsin, going by the number of reported cases, roughly 1% have died from it and that's not picking the data apart to see how accurate it is.

 

[cpp]

I know two guys who lost their dad to it and he was said to be healthy before going to the hospital. It's hard to know who will get it, in light of the percentages- 80% won't get it, s small percentage won't show symptoms, a very small percentage will have strong symptoms and not all have the underlying issues. In Wisconsin, going by the number of reported cases, roughly 1% have died from it and that's not picking the data apart to see how accurate it is.

The question people have to ask themselves, will I be or could I be that 1%

 

[highfigh]

The question people have to ask themselves, will I be or could I be that 1%

Exactly.

 

[Swerd]

The question people have to ask themselves, will I be or could I be that 1%

Those people who take on those odds think the only issue is whether or not they die from Covid-19. They fail to understand that once they are infected, they can and will spread the virus to numerous others. The more infected people there are, the more deaths accumulate.

It reminds me of people who speed or drive recklessly. They say they "pay their taxes" and believe that entitles them to do whatever they want on the road. They fail to understand that they endanger other drivers on the road, drivers who also pay their taxes.

 

[cpp]

Those people who take on those odds think the only issue is whether or not they die from Covid-19. They fail to understand that once they are infected, they can and will spread the virus to numerous others. The more infected people there are, the more deaths accumulate.

It reminds me of people who speed or drive recklessly. They say they "pay their taxes" and believe that entitles them to do whatever they want on the road. They fail to understand that they endanger other drivers on the road, drivers who also pay their taxes.

Your comment is spot on. Almost like Russian Roulette, sooner or later you will lose. And the "I won't wear seat belts" and you read about the accident in the paper where a person died, all because he was thrown from a car, for not wearing a seat belt. Life is a chance, but I would rather give myself a bigger chance by following a few simple rules. Not to mention I'm a cancer svurvior from just last May. Got to be careful.

 

[panteragstk]

The question people have to ask themselves, will I be or could I be that 1%

Those people who take on those odds think the only issue is whether or not they die from Covid-19. They fail to understand that once they are infected, they can and will spread the virus to numerous others. The more infected people there are, the more deaths accumulate.

It reminds me of people who speed or drive recklessly. They say they "pay their taxes" and believe that entitles them to do whatever they want on the road. They fail to understand that they endanger other drivers on the road, drivers who also pay their taxes.

What's crazy is a lot of the anti mask people are also anti vax. Their logic for not taking the vaccine is because of the minute chance it will have a nasty side effect. Well, that percentage is MUCH lower than the percentage of people dying from COVID or at the very least having horrible side effects that make life much more difficult. But their logic for not wearing a mask is because "not that many people die from it" and "it's not that bad".

It's clear to me they don't understand math or they'd realize the MASSIVE contradiction in their reasoning. That's why it's pointless to try to reason with them. They just want to do what they want regardless of the consequences. Grown children.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Those people who take on those odds think the only issue is whether or not they die from Covid-19. They fail to understand that once they are infected, they can and will spread the virus to numerous others. The more infected people there are, the more deaths accumulate.

It reminds me of people who speed or drive recklessly. They say they "pay their taxes" and believe that entitles them to do whatever they want on the road. They fail to understand that they endanger other drivers on the road, drivers who also pay their taxes.

I agree.

Also, the analogy to reckless driving seems appropriate, but the anti maskers probably doesn't see it that way (I'll use the term "anti maskers" to generally refer to those who are unwilling to take precautions). In other words, I suspect that the majority of the anti maskers would say that someone who drives 90 mph in a 25 zone where children are playing is a complete jerk at minimum, and probably guilty of reckless endangerment.

Also, I suspect that the vast majority of the anti maskers would agree that the government can restrict activities of citizens generally, whether it is on public or private property (e.g. how many people would say the government does not have the power to stop a mass shooting?(Or, an analogy closer to COVID restrictions, the power to stop someone randomly firing in a crowded area without actually aiming at people?)

I suppose the anti maskers would say "You can just stay at home!" (e.g. "Here I come with my virus, you can just get out of the way if you don't like it!") The anti maskers seem to base this on an erroneous belief that everyone has an unrestricted right to use public areas in any way they chose regardless of the risk it imposes on others.

Having said that, the government does not have unlimited power to restrict activities either.

Yes, the government can restrict your liberty to protect public health

Sorry, liberators. Court rulings have firmly established that public health closures — like our current coronavirus shutdowns — are constitutional.

www.latimes.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

What's crazy is a lot of the anti mask people are also anti vax. Their logic for not taking the vaccine is because of the minute chance it will have a nasty side effect. Well, that percentage is MUCH lower than the percentage of people dying from COVID or at the very least having horrible side effects that make life much more difficult. But their logic for not wearing a mask is because "not that many people die from it" and "it's not that bad".

It's clear to me they don't understand math or they'd realize the MASSIVE contradiction in their reasoning. That's why it's pointless to try to reason with them. They just want to do what they want regardless of the consequences. Grown children.

I've noticed that as well.

In some cases it appears to be driven by a belief that COVID is a hoax. If one believes that no one actually gets sick or dies from COVID, there's little reason to get vaccinated.

I know a woman who works at a funeral home. In terms of the family members of a person who died from COVID, she said some family members are very scared of contracting it, and want to avoid taking any chances. However, she also said that some family members are very agitated and combative in terms of mask wearing and other restrictions at funeral services for the person who died from COVID. This makes no sense to me.

As far as I can tell, COVID has become so politicized for some people that they just react emotionally, and throw logic out completely.

 

[Mr._Clark]

If the preprint paper discussed in the NY Times article (link below) is correct, the UK variant is doubling every 10 days or so in the U.S.

I can't prove that the anti mask yahoos in Florida are responsible for the spread there, but it wouldn't surprise me if this type of behavior is contributing:

>>>A more contagious variant of the coronavirus first found in Britain is spreading rapidly in the United States, doubling roughly every 10 days, according to a new study. . . . In Florida, the scientists estimate that more than 4 percent of cases are now caused by B.1.1.7. The national figure may be 1 percent or 2 percent, according to his team’s calculations.<<<

On the other hand, there's so little testing (sequencing) in the U.S. it's hard to say how much the variants have actually spread here, what's driving it, etc.

Virus Variant First Found in Britain Now Spreading Rapidly in U.S. (Published 2021)

A new study bolsters the prediction by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that the so-called B.1.1.7 variant will dominate Covid-19 cases by March.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

I've been seeing reports that the E484K mutation seems to be occurring independently in different strains of the virus. I'm not sure how significant this is.

I saw a quote by an expert in one article to the effect that this is good news in the sense that there do not seem to be a lot of spike mutations that are "favored" and also interfere with vaccine efficacy (I'm sure my summary of the quote is not entirely accurate).

SARS-CoV-2 has developed worrying new mutation in UK

Over the past few months, surging cases have been reported due to new fast-spreading variants. Now, Public Health England (PHE) investigates cases of COVID-19 with worrying new genetic changes. The E484K mutation, which could allow SARS-CoV-2 escape antibody protection, was seen in a small group...

www.news-medical.net

 

[highfigh]

Those people who take on those odds think the only issue is whether or not they die from Covid-19. They fail to understand that once they are infected, they can and will spread the virus to numerous others. The more infected people there are, the more deaths accumulate.

It reminds me of people who speed or drive recklessly. They say they "pay their taxes" and believe that entitles them to do whatever they want on the road. They fail to understand that they endanger other drivers on the road, drivers who also pay their taxes.

I haven't heard about many who made the comment about paying taxes, but here, so many are asked if they have a valid license and their response is "I don't need a license, I just need a car", so they steal one. Or, several. They don't know, or care, that their stupidity makes everyone else's insurance increase, yet they get a slap on the wrist. OTOH, the reason most auto thieves don't pay taxes is because they're not yet 18 years old. People are dying horribly, without warning because of this shyte.

It's like playing Russian Roulette with the lives of other people, just more than one at a time.

 

[Swerd]

Rep. Ron Wright (R-Tx) is the first member of national government to die of Covid-19.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/08/965370870/1st-member-of-congress-texas-rep-ron-wright-dies-following-covid-19-diagnosis

The 67 year-old was elected in 2018 from the 6th District of Texas and had recently begun his second term. He was a member of the House Freedom Caucus, which defined him as a right-wing Republican. He had been treated for lung cancer, and about 2 weeks ago, announced that he and his wife were Covid-19 positive.

I don't like to say anything ill about recently departed people, including politicians with whom I disagree. So, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Alex2507]

I don't like to say anything ill about recently departed people,

May God rot his soul.

Let me know about any other dead douches you are too polite to curse.

I'm here for you.

 

[Swerd]

A bit of natural medicine and common sense wisdom for all us guys