Emotiva Issues

[Irvrobinson]

I am new to the audio world, so please bare with me. The amp is the power behind the audio signal, right? or no? would you say the DAC really is defining that sound more so than the amp? Or is this discussion more of a switching power supply vs transformer thing? I don't think most people can hear a difference, let alone a "night and day" difference. Please help me understand guys.

Alex’s humor is an acquired taste. It was Alex being humorous.

 

[Gmoney]

UPDATE: New replacement AMP arrived today. Hooked it up and everything preforms as advertised. Emotiva was really easy to get ahold of and swapped this out like amazon prime! I'm a happy customer.

Photo or it didn't happen,

 

[Alex2507]

I am new to the audio world, so please bare with me. The amp is the power behind the audio signal, right? or no? would you say the DAC really is defining that sound more so than the amp? Or is this discussion more of a switching power supply vs transformer thing? I don't think most people can hear a difference, let alone a "night and day" difference. Please help me understand guys.

Irv is right, the night and day remark was suppose to be funny. Let's call that one a swing and a miss.

For being new to audio your system is pretty serious looking. Congrat's on that.

In the price range that I dabble in and the volumes that I listen at, the difference between amps and DACs isn't a consideration. The sound difference from one of my systems to another is speaker dependent and then room dependent. Anything I have to "try" to hear or have to "listen for" in the electronics is by definition subtle to the point of possibly being imaginary.

I can't comment on what happens with $10,000 speakers and $2,000 amplifiers but some here can. For the most part they would agree with me or maybe it's a matter of me agreeing with them.

 

[killdozzer]

Is there a vested interest here? Curious as to why the visceral post? "You've been warned"

I'm not looking to promote or dislike a manufacture on this thread. I was hoping others could see how my customer help experience went with Emotiva. They sent a replacement unit out, which I received in two days. I'm a happy camper and all is working as advertised.

I have a feeling it might be related to the general warning about Emotiva. Since some members asked you to report on how it goes, I doubt it's because you did.

 

[RichB]

I am new to the audio world, so please bare with me. The amp is the power behind the audio signal, right? or no? would you say the DAC really is defining that sound more so than the amp? Or is this discussion more of a switching power supply vs transformer thing? I don't think most people can hear a difference, let alone a "night and day" difference. Please help me understand guys.

I think the "night and day" comment was satirical.
There is a scale from subjectivist to objectivist that becomes a never ending battle.

It is most amusing, that when an objectivist buys products measure perhaps 10x better than another, they once again become subjectivists because these benefits are clearly inaudible. Thus we must conclude, that objectivistic is allowed only up to a point. The point is of course is based on subjective views.
Ultimately, listening is subjective, so I would argue that we are all subjectivists

- Rich

 

[rebulx]

I think the "night and day" comment was satirical.
There is a scale from subjectivist to objectivist that becomes a never ending battle.

It is most amusing, that when an objectivist buys products measure perhaps 10x better than another, they once again become subjectivists because these benefits are clearly inaudible. Thus we must conclude, that objectivistic is allowed only up to a point. The point is of course is based on subjective views.
Ultimately, listening is subjective, so I would argue that we are all subjectivists

- Rich

Is this a thing? Quite a fun post nonetheless. But, have you found objectivist (posters) buying items that measure 10x better(or just much better) than another, yet the objector/subject doesn't like it? Anything that measures 10x times better is audible, right?

 

[rebulx]

Photo or it didn't happen,

wait, how can you tell if the new amp is working in the pic? lol you guys are messing with me! lol

 

[Gmoney]

wait, how can you tell if the new amp is working in the pic? lol you guys are messing with me! lol

Yep!,lol just messing with ya. Glad they took care of you it was the right thing to do of them.

 

[TLS Guy]

Is there a vested interest here? Curious as to why the visceral post? "You've been warned"

I'm not looking to promote or dislike a manufacture on this thread. I was hoping others could see how my customer help experience went with Emotiva. They sent a replacement unit out, which I received in two days. I'm a happy camper and all is working as advertised.

Great to see they took care of you, but that is exactly what they should have done.

 

[Alex2507]

Anything that measures 10x times better is audible, right?

products measure perhaps 10x better than another ... these benefits are clearly inaudible.

Once you dip below the threshold of human hearing with distortion figures it doesn't matter if you are 10x lower or 100x lower.

 

[RichB]

Once you dip below the threshold of human hearing with distortion figures it doesn't matter if you are 10x lower or 100x lower.

The threshold of human hearing is 0 SPL by definition. Very few products can do that.
Is this the threshold that you are referring?

- Rich

 

[Alex2507]

The threshold of human hearing is 0 SPL by definition. Very few products can do that.
Is this the threshold that you are referring?

- Rich

No, I meant what humans are not able to hear, like two feathers touching. It has to make a sound that's inaudible to us. That's what I was thinking about. If you are 1' or 100' from the feathers, it makes no difference.

I Googled what you said. That'll take about the rest of forever to go through.

 

[highfigh]

Great to see they took care of you, but that is exactly what they should have done.

To paraphrase, unfortunately some companies adopt the 'Just because you should, doesn't mean you will' attitude.

 

[highfigh]

No, I meant what humans are not able to hear, like two feathers touching. It has to make a sound that's inaudible to us. That's what I was thinking about. If you are 1' or 100' from the feathers, it makes no difference.

I Googled what you said. That'll take about the rest of forever to go through.

Jam two feathers into your ear and tell me you don't hear anything.....

 

[highfigh]

The threshold of human hearing is 0 SPL by definition. Very few products can do that.
Is this the threshold that you are referring?

- Rich

That's a theoretical reference level, averaged from testing people in the past. That threshold would have been lower before machines and anything that would explode. It's also for a pure tone, which we almost never hear.

And cave people didn't have paper bags to use for scaring people, so......

 

[ryanosaur]

Jam two feathers into your ear and tell me you don't hear anything.....

Depending on which end of the feather... it'll either be laughter or screaming we hear.

 

[Alex2507]

Jam two feathers into your ear and tell me you don't hear anything.....

organic audio grade peacock feathers

 

[ryanosaur]

organic audio grade peacock feathers

 

[shadyJ]

I hope you never get too close to volume -7 though. The AHB2 has the best measurements I have ever seen published in the public domain when it clipped it clipped pretty hard (steep slope). That's why I suggested you bridge them if you recall, for you big Salon2. I won't need to do that, but you seem to have much better hearing than me.

The AHB2 is an awfully nice amplifier, but I wouldn't be so wowed by their distortion numbers from a pragmatic standpoint. They are way way lower than they need to be. I would be very willing to allow more distortion for more power delivery, as long as distortion remains below audibility. Personally, I would rather have same-priced amps from NAD, Arcam, or Anthem. Twice the power with still very low distortion.

 

[RichB]

The AHB2 is an awfully nice amplifier, but I wouldn't be so wowed by their distortion numbers from a pragmatic standpoint. They are way way lower than they need to be. I would be very willing to allow more distortion for more power delivery, as long as distortion remains below audibility. Personally, I would rather have same-priced amps from NAD, Arcam, or Anthem. Twice the power with still very low distortion.

What I said, was there was an absolute and object level of inaudibility defined by SPL.

Most products are producing potentially artifacts at some level and transparent probably at some level of distortion.
I have my own opinion that about 95 dB distortion free at one watt is acceptable. Below the first watt, where I listen the vast majority of the time, should remain above 80 dB SINAD. I am less concerned incredibly low distortion at maximum power performance since I wont be listening to that and my ears will have shut down anyway.

I would be willing to relax this view, if amplifiers were specified to remain linear with maximum distortion specs into reactive loads.
Measurements we have are very informative but may be incomplete.

- Rich