Emotiva Issues

[highfigh]

Then again his own repair work could simply void his warranty....

As it should, in most cases. How many people know that it's not a matter of just replacing the outputs and turning it on? Some amps are designed in a way that when the outputs go away, it burns up like a fuse on dynamite- outputs, drivers, emitter resistors, pre-drivers, regulator, diodes.....it can be ugly and then, the bias needs to be set (among other tests) after the parts have been replaced. Big difference between "Hey, it works!" and 'it was connected to a scope and it tested at/better than spec.

 

[TLS Guy]

Not just rate, they measured 4 ohm too, in fact its the minimum so the nominal impedance should be higher. The reviewer said:

Axiom M100 Floor-standing Speakers Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

"The impedance is of particular note. The fact that the impedance remains above four ohms for the entire audio band (ignoring the tail below 20 Hz.) means that the M100s should be an easy drive, even for AV receivers (not normally known for their four-ohm performance).

Now that said, if you’re the person who likes high volumes and/or you have an auditorium-sized listening room, your AVR will certainly NOT be sufficient. Plan on adding a more muscular amplifier. High-quality, high-powered amplifiers are now becoming affordable commodities and any improvement in amplification will absolutely be audible with the M100s.

My favorite amp turned out to be the Emotiva XPA-2, Generation 2. This amp has sufficient power to bring out the best of the M100s at higher volumes yet maintains dynamics and tone when playing at much softer normal volumes."

He might have read that review, hence the Emotiva amp.

View attachment 43765

It is a good thing you dug up that curve. As it looks like Emotiva left wiggle room in their repair policy. So it looks like a dud amp. It is a pity there is no phase curve to go with the impedance plot. However hopefully that is enough data to prevent denial of warranty. Those base drivers must have 12 ohm VCs!

 

[highfigh]

It is a good thing you dug up that curve. As it looks like Emotiva left wiggle room in their repair policy. So it looks like a dud amp. It is a pity there is no phase curve to go with the impedance plot. However hopefully that is enough data to prevent denial of warranty. Those base drivers must have 12 ohm VCs!

That's the beauty of having things custom-made. Repairs that are needed long after manufacture will be a lot more difficult, but for new speakers, it's a way to do something different.

 

[rebulx]

Spoke to Emotiva today. Very helpful and friendly, shipping out a new amp today, with return label for existing one. It was an easy process of just calling them up and someone answering the phone, no on hold waiting. They asked a few questions to confirm it was dead and said they were shipping out a new one, minutes later I got confirmation emails with tracking info.

The 702's are sitting in another room for the moment. The M100's, hated by some they maybe, are great speakers built by a company that's been around for ages. Listening is believing. They are too big though for that space, but lots of fun to listen too.

 

[rebulx]

UPDATE: New replacement AMP arrived today. Hooked it up and everything preforms as advertised. Emotiva was really easy to get ahold of and swapped this out like amazon prime! I'm a happy customer.

 

[RichB]

UPDATE: New replacement AMP arrived today. Hooked it up and everything preforms as advertised. Emotiva was really easy to get ahold of and swapped this out like amazon prime! I'm a happy customer.

I had no doubt they would do handle it this way. There was a lot of ready fire aim going on this thread.

Gene's experience was unfortunate, like many firms, the parts go out of service and they may not be able to repair them.
If you want guaranteed service after warranty, there are brands to look to in the value market like ATI and others.

I currently have an ATI AT522NC and 5 Benchmark amps. The Benchmarks have been around for about 5 years and I have yet to see a post reporting a failure. Of course you pay for that.

The Emotiva RMC-1 still has some idiosyncrasies but source fantastic. I think there is something to be said for uniform design DAC/Circuitry for at least the 5 main channels. I certainly heard the improvement when I upgraded my rears from Studio2s to Salon2s. Pans are wonderful.

- Rich

 

[Auditor55]

The timing is funny you bring that up, when I purchased my Persona speakers 1 week ago, I was talking to a dealer who sells Emotiva, and even he said to stay away from Emotiva Amps.

• That being said, there are a lot of people who buy their amps and are 100% satisfied
• If you are happy with them, it's your system, I am sure they will exchange them since they are under warranty/new

My concern is exactly what TLS guy points out, out of warranty support. Out of all my equipment, I have had my amps the longest, over 9 years, well past the warranty period. I know that if I have an issue, I can send it it to Parasound for service. Be aware that if you decide to upgrade in the future, Emotiva amps have terrible resale value. I still have a $200 gift card I won at Axpona about 4 years ago. It doesn't expire, I still haven't used it.

Really, tell that to people on Ebay that be selling 6 years old amps for close to the same price when new.

 

[Auditor55]

UPDATE: New replacement AMP arrived today. Hooked it up and everything preforms as advertised. Emotiva was really easy to get ahold of and swapped this out like amazon prime! I'm a happy customer.

For the record, you've been warned.

 

[highfigh]

UPDATE: New replacement AMP arrived today. Hooked it up and everything preforms as advertised. Emotiva was really easy to get ahold of and swapped this out like amazon prime! I'm a happy customer.

They seem to have gotten the message after people posted about bad experiences.

Good, for them.

 

[RichB]

The highest resale values are probably for Bryston. Though, my Benchmarks seem to sell for less than 20% off.
You pay for that.

ATI is very reasonably priced when I repaired a used 7500 I bought used.

- Rich

 

[Kleinst]

The highest resale values are probably for Bryston. Though, my Benchmarks seem to sell for less than 20% off.
You pay for that.

ATI is very reasonably priced when I repaired a used 7500 I bought used.

- Rich

Good to know, I have a 7500 with one channel out. I'm not going to repair yet as I am using it only for front 3 but want to have an idea for refurb for my 7500 would cost at ATI

 

[Cos]

The highest resale values are probably for Bryston. Though, my Benchmarks seem to sell for less than 20% off.
You pay for that.

ATI is very reasonably priced when I repaired a used 7500 I bought used.

- Rich

I was checking out the benchmark amps, I see you switched from Parasound to ATI and now to Benchmark, is the difference noticeable?

 

[Alex2507]

is the difference noticeable?

Like night and day.

 

[RichB]

I was checking out the benchmark amps, I see you switched from Parasound to ATI and now to Benchmark, is the difference noticeable?

My friend brought an AHB2 over a couple of years ago and we plugged it in replacing the AT6002s. It sounded wonderful with lots of detail.
I did not do much about that experience for a while until my friend had his 3'rd ATI AT6007 amp channel board fail. He had two AT6007s and each had a channel failure.
ATI was good about it but it took a while to get a replacement channel but replacing channels was non trivial.
On the third card failure, ATI shipped him a new amp. These amps must ship freight (over 150 lbs) so this is a big deal.

After that, 2 friends and I moved to Benchmark amps.
The AHB2 advantages include:

• 10x lower distortion (especially in the first watt, there is no crossover distortion)
• Idle power for 4 amps is 72 watts, down from 310 watts for the ATIs. (credenza fans are not needed)
• Total weight is 48 lbs. down from 300 lbs. ( 3 amps)
• Zero mechanical/transformer noise (ATIs were audible from my seating position and varied during the day)
• Per channel SHARC and distortion monitoring with high-speed distortion indicators. Amps shutoff if distortion exceeds 1% to protect the tweeter

At first, I thought that I would clip these amps. When I had one AHB2, I watched Aquaman UHD BD plenty loud, the Salon2s running full range.
During the Kraken scene, the Salon2 woofers were really moving but there were no clip indicators. These are implemented with a Spartan 6 FPGA and are very sensitive.
Into 4 Ohms, the AHB2 produces 180 WPC, that is 1/2 the power of the ATIs.

After that, I decided to measure the volume from the Salon2s when playing pure tones at 2.83 volts at my seating position. This was Volume -31 on the XMC-1.
That results in the following power requirements:

I can clip these amps but not any any level listening to music or movies that I find enjoyable.
I am done with big iron amps.

- Rich

 

[Cos]

My friend brought one over a couple of years ago and we plugged it in replacing the AT6002s. It sounded wonderful with lots of detail.
I did not do much about that experience for a while until my friend had his 3'rd amp fail. He had two AT6007s and each had a channel failure.
ATI did was good about it but it took a while to get a replacement channel and replacing channels was non trivial.
On the third, ATI shipped a new amp. These amps must ship freight (over 150 lbs) so this is a big deal.

After that, 3 friends and I moved to Benchmark amps.
The advantages include:

• 10x lower distortion (especially in the first watt, there is no crossover distortion)
• Idle power for 4 amps is 72 watts, down from 310 watts for the ATs
• Total weight is 48 lbs. down from 300 lbs ( 3 amps)
• Zero mechanical/transformer noise (ATIs were audible from my seating position and varied during the day)
• Per channel SHARC and distortion monitoring with high-speed distortion indicators. Amps shutoff if distortion exceeds 1% to protect the tweeter

At first, I thought that I would clip these amps. When I had one AHB2, I watched Aquaman UHD BD plenty loud, the Salon2s running full range.
During the Kraken scene, the Salon2 woofers were really moving but there were no clip indicators. These are implemented with a Spartan 6 FPGA and are very sensitive.
Into 4 Ohms, the AHB2 produces 180 WPC, that is 1/2 the power of the ATIs.

After that, I decided to measure the volume from the Salon2s when playing pure tones at 2.83 volts at my seating position. This was Volume -31 on the XMC-1.
That results in the following power requirements:

View attachment 44102

I can clip these amps but not any any level listening to music or movies that I find enjoyable.
I am done with big iron amps.

- Rich

Thanks for the information. I came upon Benchmark by accident but started to research them a little.
Review and Measurements of Benchmark AHB2 Amp | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

I am happy with my amps, transformer noise on my A31 A51 and A52 (Atmos) are pretty low, and only noticable up close. I like the smaller form factor/less heat/distortion protection and 0 Transformer noise.

I was checking USAudiomart and Audiogon, they hold their value extremely well lol.

 

[RichB]

Thanks for the information. I came upon Benchmark by accident but started to research them a little.
Review and Measurements of Benchmark AHB2 Amp | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

I am happy with my amps, transformer noise on my A31 A51 and A52 (Atmos) are pretty low, and only noticable up close. I like the smaller form factor/less heat/distortion protection and 0 Transformer noise.

I was checking USAudiomart and Audiogon, they hold their value extremely well lol.

That is cool. Parasound was the quietest of the large transformer amps that I have owned.
Most people seem to love their AHB2s and they are hard to find used.

Benchmark told me they typically sell for 17% discount used. Not bad.
I have not seen any posts of amp failures. They cost but are really well engineered and constructed.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

That is cool. Parasound was the quietest of the large transformer amps that I have owned.
Most people seem to love their AHB2s and they are hard to find used.

Benchmark told me they typically sell for 17% discount used. Not bad.
I have not seen any posts of amp failures. They cost but are really well engineered and constructed.

- Rich

I hope you never get too close to volume -7 though. The AHB2 has the best measurements I have ever seen published in the public domain when it clipped it clipped pretty hard (steep slope). That's why I suggested you bridge them if you recall, for you big Salon2. I won't need to do that, but you seem to have much better hearing than me.

 

[RichB]

I hope you never get too close to volume -7 though. The AHB2 has the best measurements I have ever seen published in the public domain when it clipped it clipped pretty hard (steep slope). That's why I suggested you bridge them if you recall, for you big Salon2. I won't need to do that, but you seem to have much better hearing than me.

I am not sure about my hearing but since I do want it to continue that way, I don't need -7.

- Rich

 

[rebulx]

For the record, you've been warned.

Is there a vested interest here? Curious as to why the visceral post? "You've been warned"

I'm not looking to promote or dislike a manufacture on this thread. I was hoping others could see how my customer help experience went with Emotiva. They sent a replacement unit out, which I received in two days. I'm a happy camper and all is working as advertised.

 

[rebulx]

Like night and day.

I am new to the audio world, so please bare with me. The amp is the power behind the audio signal, right? or no? would you say the DAC really is defining that sound more so than the amp? Or is this discussion more of a switching power supply vs transformer thing? I don't think most people can hear a difference, let alone a "night and day" difference. Please help me understand guys.