For the love of god or whoever … VOTE!

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D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Kayleigh just wants to lift the hood of the car and take a peak what's underneath (ie steal the election if they can).
Stewart believes Trump "exaggerates" and "spins" the truth, but no, he doesn't believe he's ever lied. Yep, FOX 101 right there.:rolleyes:
 
L

lp85253

Audioholic Chief
Because, rightly or wrongly, one of the issues is care availability. To a lot of people lower costs are irrelevant if you can't get appointments or procedures scheduled when you need them. Anyone who has taken macro-economics knows that demand goes up as the price of a good or service trends toward zero. For scarce resources like medical services it's a tough problem. Personally I'm also firmly on the page of personal responsibility as a factor in cost.
personal responsibility is certainly an issue.. bad health is a "sport" here....... i here anecdotal evidence of sub par healthcare in "socialist countries".. then i look at overall cost and longevity , and guess what.. ?? .. socialist countries have better outcomes at less expense.. soooo.. absent actual evidence to the contrary .. what is the downside??
 
L

lp85253

Audioholic Chief
Our system sucks, but I think it's because of the way health insurance has been allowed to deny claims and because of the litigious nature of our country. Where else can someone sue the shyte out of someone for making a mistake and get tens or hundreds of millions of dollars? Sure, some are based on a doctor's negligence or some other preventable error, but the settlements are sometimes so high it's a wonder anyone would want to enter the field when malpractice insurance is so high. Health care professionals want to treat people- I don't think there's much argument against that.

Higher taxes are OK for those who can afford them but many can't. Unfortunately for the latter, there's nobody in Congress who's willing to work for anyone who can't prop up their collective bank accounts.

If Congress and the rest of government were efficient and could be seen as 'doing a good job for the American public', I don't think as many people would have a problem but by 'doing a good job', I don't mean pandering to people. We have problems in this country that aren't being addressed- education is at the top of the list and without that, people won't make the decisions that keep them housed, fed, healthy, safe, out of prison, and generally happy. Many personal decisions make people unhealthy and that means we require more medical treatment for preventable problems. Because government is needed for some things, taxes aren't bad, but the IRS isn't supposed to be an agency used to penalize people. OTOH, some wealthy people could step up and stop trying to get away with zero tax liability but since Congress really seems to be there for them, the rest of us are kind of screwed. I would like members of Congress who are wealthy to stop speaking of 'the wealthy' as if it's a completely separate group. It's as if they think were too stupid to see what they're doing but the reality is, they just don't give a rat's butt.
well there you go.. the realization that it's congress + the billionaire class that's the problem.. well done...
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan

Republican leaders in four critical states won by President-elect Joe Biden say they won’t participate in a legally dubious scheme to flip their state’s electors to vote for President Donald Trump. Their comments effectively shut down a half-baked plot some Republicans floated as a last chance to keep Trump in the White House.

State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate’s victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.

“I do not see, short of finding some type of fraud — which I haven’t heard of anything — I don’t see us in any serious way addressing a change in electors,” said Rusty Bowers, Arizona’s Republican House speaker, who says he’s been inundated with emails pleading for the legislature to intervene. “They are mandated by statute to choose according to the vote of the people.”

The idea loosely involves GOP-controlled legislatures dismissing Biden’s popular vote wins in their states and opting to select Trump electors. While the endgame was unclear, it appeared to hinge on the expectation that a conservative-leaning Supreme Court would settle any dispute over the move.

Still, it has been promoted by Trump allies, including Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, and is an example of misleading information and false claims fueling skepticism among Trump supporters about the integrity of the vote.

The theory is rooted in the fact that the U.S. Constitution grants state legislatures the power to decide how electors are chosen. Each state already has passed laws that delegate this power to voters and appoint electors for whichever candidate wins the state on Election Day. The only opportunity for a state legislature to then get involved with electors is a provision in federal law allowing it if the actual election “fails.”

If the result of the election was unclear in mid-December, at the deadline for naming electors, Republican-controlled legislatures in those states could declare that Trump won and appoint electors supporting him. Or so the theory goes.

The problem, legal experts note, is that the result of the election is not in any way unclear. Biden won all the states at issue. It’s hard to argue the election “failed” when Trump’s own Department of Homeland Security reported it was not tampered with and was “the most secure in American history.” There has been no finding of widespread fraud or problems in the vote count, which shows Biden leading Trump by more than 5 million votes nationally.

Trump’s campaign and its allies have filed lawsuits that aim to delay the certification and potentially provide evidence for a failed election. But so far, Trump and Republicans have had meager success — at least 10 of the lawsuits have been rejected by the courts in the 10 days since the election. The most significant that remain ask courts to prevent Michigan and Pennsylvania from certifying Biden as the winner of their elections.

But legal experts say it’s impossible for courts to ultimately stop those states from appointing electors by the December deadline.

“It would take the most unjustified and bizarre intervention by courts that this country has ever seen,” said Danielle Lang of the Campaign Legal Center. “I haven’t seen anything in any of those lawsuits that has any kind of merit — let alone enough to delay appointing electors.”

Even if Trump won a single court fight, there’s another major roadblock: Congress would be the final arbiter of whether to accept electors submitted by Republican legislatures. If the Democratic-controlled House and GOP-controlled Senate could not agree on which electors to accept and who becomes president, the presidency would pass to the next person in line of succession at the end of Trump and Vice President Mike Pence’s term on Jan. 20. That would be House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat.

“If this is a strategy, I don’t think it will be successful,” said Edward Foley, a constitutional law professor at Ohio State University. “I think we’re in the realm of fantasy here.”

But unfounded claims about fraud and corruption have been circulating widely in conservative circles since Biden won the election. Asked this week if state lawmakers should invalidate the official results, GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham said, “Everything should be on the table.”

DeSantis urged Pennsylvania and Michigan residents to call state lawmakers and urge them to intervene. “Under Article 2 of the Constitution, presidential electors are done by the legislatures and the schemes they create and the framework. And if there’s departure from that, if they’re not following the law, if they’re ignoring law, then they can provide remedies as well,” he said.

Republican lawmakers, however, appear to be holding steady. “The Pennsylvania General Assembly does not have and will not have a hand in choosing the state’s presidential electors or in deciding the outcome of the presidential election,” top Republican legislative leaders, state Sen. Jake Corman and Rep. Kerry Benninghoff, wrote in an October op-ed. Their offices said Friday they stand by the statement.

The Republican leader of Wisconsin’s Assembly, Robin Vos, has long dismissed the idea, and his spokesperson, Kit Beyer, said he stood by that position on Thursday.

In Michigan, legislative leaders say any intervention would be against state law. Even though the GOP-controlled legislature is investigating the election, state Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey told radio station WJR on Friday, “It is not the expectation that our analysis will result in any change in the outcome.”
 
L

lp85253

Audioholic Chief

Republican leaders in four critical states won by President-elect Joe Biden say they won’t participate in a legally dubious scheme to flip their state’s electors to vote for President Donald Trump. Their comments effectively shut down a half-baked plot some Republicans floated as a last chance to keep Trump in the White House.

State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate’s victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.

“I do not see, short of finding some type of fraud — which I haven’t heard of anything — I don’t see us in any serious way addressing a change in electors,” said Rusty Bowers, Arizona’s Republican House speaker, who says he’s been inundated with emails pleading for the legislature to intervene. “They are mandated by statute to choose according to the vote of the people.”

The idea loosely involves GOP-controlled legislatures dismissing Biden’s popular vote wins in their states and opting to select Trump electors. While the endgame was unclear, it appeared to hinge on the expectation that a conservative-leaning Supreme Court would settle any dispute over the move.

Still, it has been promoted by Trump allies, including Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, and is an example of misleading information and false claims fueling skepticism among Trump supporters about the integrity of the vote.

The theory is rooted in the fact that the U.S. Constitution grants state legislatures the power to decide how electors are chosen. Each state already has passed laws that delegate this power to voters and appoint electors for whichever candidate wins the state on Election Day. The only opportunity for a state legislature to then get involved with electors is a provision in federal law allowing it if the actual election “fails.”

If the result of the election was unclear in mid-December, at the deadline for naming electors, Republican-controlled legislatures in those states could declare that Trump won and appoint electors supporting him. Or so the theory goes.

The problem, legal experts note, is that the result of the election is not in any way unclear. Biden won all the states at issue. It’s hard to argue the election “failed” when Trump’s own Department of Homeland Security reported it was not tampered with and was “the most secure in American history.” There has been no finding of widespread fraud or problems in the vote count, which shows Biden leading Trump by more than 5 million votes nationally.

Trump’s campaign and its allies have filed lawsuits that aim to delay the certification and potentially provide evidence for a failed election. But so far, Trump and Republicans have had meager success — at least 10 of the lawsuits have been rejected by the courts in the 10 days since the election. The most significant that remain ask courts to prevent Michigan and Pennsylvania from certifying Biden as the winner of their elections.

But legal experts say it’s impossible for courts to ultimately stop those states from appointing electors by the December deadline.

“It would take the most unjustified and bizarre intervention by courts that this country has ever seen,” said Danielle Lang of the Campaign Legal Center. “I haven’t seen anything in any of those lawsuits that has any kind of merit — let alone enough to delay appointing electors.”

Even if Trump won a single court fight, there’s another major roadblock: Congress would be the final arbiter of whether to accept electors submitted by Republican legislatures. If the Democratic-controlled House and GOP-controlled Senate could not agree on which electors to accept and who becomes president, the presidency would pass to the next person in line of succession at the end of Trump and Vice President Mike Pence’s term on Jan. 20. That would be House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat.

“If this is a strategy, I don’t think it will be successful,” said Edward Foley, a constitutional law professor at Ohio State University. “I think we’re in the realm of fantasy here.”

But unfounded claims about fraud and corruption have been circulating widely in conservative circles since Biden won the election. Asked this week if state lawmakers should invalidate the official results, GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham said, “Everything should be on the table.”

DeSantis urged Pennsylvania and Michigan residents to call state lawmakers and urge them to intervene. “Under Article 2 of the Constitution, presidential electors are done by the legislatures and the schemes they create and the framework. And if there’s departure from that, if they’re not following the law, if they’re ignoring law, then they can provide remedies as well,” he said.

Republican lawmakers, however, appear to be holding steady. “The Pennsylvania General Assembly does not have and will not have a hand in choosing the state’s presidential electors or in deciding the outcome of the presidential election,” top Republican legislative leaders, state Sen. Jake Corman and Rep. Kerry Benninghoff, wrote in an October op-ed. Their offices said Friday they stand by the statement.

The Republican leader of Wisconsin’s Assembly, Robin Vos, has long dismissed the idea, and his spokesperson, Kit Beyer, said he stood by that position on Thursday.

In Michigan, legislative leaders say any intervention would be against state law. Even though the GOP-controlled legislature is investigating the election, state Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey told radio station WJR on Friday, “It is not the expectation that our analysis will result in any change in the outcome.”e
it's nice to know some of the whore's have a limit to the corruption they create
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Yesterday, the results of the last 2 undecided states were called. As expected, Georgia went for Binden and North Carolina went for Trump. That brings the expected electoral college votes to Biden 306 – Trump 232.

The national popular vote is (as of 14 Nov 2020, 10:45 am EST)
An estimated 97% of cast votes have been counted.

Biden – 78,523,590 – (50.9%)
Trump – 73,019,300 – (47.4%)
Biden leads by 5,504,290 votes
1605373468817.png
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
In a twitter post, Dan Rather aimed a direct barb at Trump:

Dude. You lost.​
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
well there you go.. the realization that it's congress + the billionaire class that's the problem.. well done...
Yeah, that billionaire class. Let's blame them for everything. Less than 1200 people total in the US, not counting spouses. And some large fraction of that total are liberals who support progressive causes. Of course there are guys like Larry Ellison, who throws fund-raising dinners for Trump and owns a Hawaiian island, and the Koch family, but there's also Bezos, who owns the left-leaning Washington Post, Laurene Jobs (Steve's widow), who is an investor in The Atlantic, and Tom Steyer, the hedge fund guy who's a liberal environmentalist and pro-union. I'm just not seeing the huge threat of the "billionaire class". Yeah, the hedge fund guys and real estate developers are legally gaming the federal tax system, but that's our fault too, because 99 out of 100 people (at least) don't know what carried interest is, or how the stimulus bill eliminated limits on real estate losses that can be used to offset income taxes. We continue to elect the congressmen who write that crap into the tax laws.

I wonder how many millionaires the billionaires have made just by people working in their companies or investing in their companies? How many Apple and Microsoft millionaires are there? For just high-tech companies as a group it's got to be in the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions. I see many billionaires as the greatest wealth creation machines in human history. I know, that's heresy. They're all evil and they own us.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Good question. I'd have to research it. I always thought it was rerved for individuals only.
I agree as I looked but no answer at all. So, his company can be criminally prosecuted and fined to bankruptcy?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I've never seen anything like this in my lifetime. I think Trump's legacy will be giving a voice to the uneducated and ignorant. Remember: he "loves the uneducated!"
It's so stupid I wanna toss the hat in, but than I'm reminded to help in my own tiny way to put the butts out. I'll see things like, "But the electoral map is shaded mostly red!" It's as if they're far too young, or they slept through government class. So you try and explain to them that Alaska is a large state, but we can't be giving them 20 electorals because few want to live up there in the cold.
Or, if they didn't get exposed to a government class or two, they didn't bother to understand how it works.
Good thing land square footage is not what electoral college numbers are based on.;):)
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
Yeah, that billionaire class. Let's blame them for everything. Less than 1200 people total in the US, not counting spouses. And some large fraction of that total are liberals who support progressive causes. Of course there are guys like Larry Ellison, who throws fund-raising dinners for Trump and owns a Hawaiian island, and the Koch family, but there's also Bezos, who owns the left-leaning Washington Post, Laurene Jobs (Steve's widow), who is an investor in The Atlantic, and Tom Steyer, the hedge fund guy who's a liberal environmentalist and pro-union. I'm just not seeing the huge threat of the "billionaire class". Yeah, the hedge fund guys and real estate developers are legally gaming the federal tax system, but that's our fault too, because 99 out of 100 people (at least) don't know what carried interest is, or how the stimulus bill eliminated limits on real estate losses that can be used to offset income taxes. We continue to elect the congressmen who write that crap into the tax laws.

I wonder how many millionaires the billionaires have made just by people working in their companies or investing in their companies? How many Apple and Microsoft millionaires are there? For just high-tech companies as a group it's got to be in the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions. I see many billionaires as the greatest wealth creation machines in human history. I know, that's heresy. They're all evil and they own us.
If you start in on taxes I'm going to lose my s#%t!:mad: F#%kin' congress! Billionaires and even a guy with just a f#%kin' nickel to his name can get some crazy s#%t passed because those whores in Washington will suck you off for a campaign donation.:mad:
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Yep, Charles Koch seems to be regretting most of his funding efforts. Last night's news show.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Why not? He doesn't give a s... after they voted for him, actually never cared just lied he did.
Telling the Eerie crowd he didn't have to be there but is doing them a favor, or leaving his MAGAs in the cold after not showing up to that one rally. Guys unbelievable, and his supporters as bad. Says behind closed doors on audio he thinks his base is dumb.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Why not? He doesn't give a s... after they voted for him, actually never cared just lied he did.
He gives a sh!t that only 7000 showed, which is probably why he did not attend - he can argue the crowd would have been "hugely" had he been there!
For him, so much is about ratings and crowd size!
 
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