Denon or Onkyo or ???

[mazersteven]

Elac B6.2 as L/R & C6.2 as a center.

This thread has gone from Bad to Worse!!!

 

[Timforhifi]

Your speakers and room have more impact on sound. The avr helps but your speakers will always determine what you can do.
Yamaha is a more dynamic avr so it’ll help add some excitement to you elac. Which are overall a neutral to darker sound.

I do agree to some extent that denon/marantz users are missing out. One thing denon does well is it uses every speaker better in a surround setup. For example Yamaha is more center channel driven. Center is almost always the loudest and other channels you almost have to really listen for if they are active. Until they are obviously called upon for a big action scene. Denon or marantz every channel is more active enveloping you in a different way. Onkyo and pioneer are a little over the top and over active. This is with all speakers level matched, they still do things different. Knowing all this I tune in different ways per each avr brand. Then check with rew.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I could even hear some bass coming out from my surrounds.
Crazy. I can do the same thing by lowering v my XO.

Normally I listen using straight option or entirely turn off the processing using the pure direct feature.

Denon/Marantz owners are missing on these features for sure. Worth it.

Nope. Not missing at all. I have direct/pure direct also. Not missing ANYTHING...
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

Your speakers and room have more impact on sound. The avr helps but your speakers will always determine what you can do.
Yamaha is a more dynamic avr so it’ll help add some excitement to you elac. Which are overall a neutral to darker sound.

I do agree to some extent that denon/marantz users are missing out. One thing denon does well is it uses every speaker better in a surround setup. For example Yamaha is more center channel driven. Center is almost always the loudest and other channels you almost have to really listen for if they are active. Until they are obviously called upon for a big action scene. Denon or marantz every channel is more active enveloping you in a different way. Onkyo and pioneer are a little over the top and over active. This is with all speakers level matched, they still do things different. Knowing all this I tune in different ways per each avr brand. Then check with rew.

What makes the Yamaha brand more "dynamic" than other brands? So you need some dead speakers to counter the lively electronics? What a load of crap.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Your speakers and room have more impact on sound. The avr helps but your speakers will always determine what you can do.
Yamaha is a more dynamic avr so it’ll help add some excitement to you elac. Which are overall a neutral to darker sound.

I do agree to some extent that denon/marantz users are missing out. One thing denon does well is it uses every speaker better in a surround setup. For example Yamaha is more center channel driven. Center is almost always the loudest and other channels you almost have to really listen for if they are active. Until they are obviously called upon for a big action scene. Denon or marantz every channel is more active enveloping you in a different way. Onkyo and pioneer are a little over the top and over active. This is with all speakers level matched, they still do things different. Knowing all this I tune in different ways per each avr brand. Then check with rew.

Maybe I’m missing something in this statement. But afaik, every single AVR decodes every single soundtrack the way it was encoded. What I mean is, Yamaha can’t be “center heavy” and D/M be surround centric etc. The only way this can happen is with DSP. Such as yamahas “sound modes” which are added after the decode. Doesn’t matter if it’s bistream and decided by the AVR, or pcm decided by the BD player. ALL sounds are steered the same, and to where there supposed to be. If you have older channels, then they’re not level matched, or using DSP. That’s simply a feature/fault of the manufacturer and should be looked at accordingly.

“Yamaha is a more dynamic AVR”? Could you please elaborate?

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe I’m missing something in this statement. But afaik, every single AVR decodes every single soundtrack the way it was encoded. What I mean is, Yamaha can’t be “center heavy” and D/M be surround centric etc. The only way this can happen is with DSP. Such as yamahas “sound modes” which are added after the decode. Doesn’t matter if it’s bistream and decided by the AVR, or pcm decided by the BD player. ALL sounds are steered the same, and to where there supposed to be. If you have older channels, then they’re not level matched, or using DSP. That’s simply a feature/fault of the manufacturer and should be looked at accordingly.

“Yamaha is a more dynamic AVR”? Could you please elaborate?

Or simply differed in room/setup due the human setting it up if not the dsp....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Or simply differed in room/setup due the human setting it up if not the dsp....

Exactly. Like I said, DSP, or levels being off. Yamahas idiotic sound modes will definitely change those parameters, so I’d guess one of those to be engaged.

 

[Timforhifi]

Try a few and decide for yourself. Saying something is a load of crap shows you don’t understand the differences.

when using a denon or marantz you can turn audyssey off and achieve an improvement. Again it’s all room and speaker dependent.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Try a few and decide for yourself. Saying something is a load of crap shows you don’t understand the differences.

when using a denon or marantz you can turn audyssey off and achieve an improvement. Again it’s all room and speaker dependent.

Who said load of crap?


I’m asking you to say what more dynamic?(psst: I have used some Yamahas). And also why “yamaha is center driven”. Decoding is decoding.

 

[lovinthehd]

Try a few and decide for yourself. Saying something is a load of crap shows you don’t understand the differences.

when using a denon or marantz you can turn audyssey off and achieve an improvement. Again it’s all room and speaker dependent.

I have four different avrs and multich speaker setups now in my home (plus a coupla two channel sets). Sometimes I use Audyssey, sometimes I don't. Methinks the lack of experience with gear may be on your side.

 

[lovinthehd]

I

Who said load of crap?


I’m asking you to say what more dynamic?(psst: I have used some Yamahas). And also why “yamaha is center driven”. Decoding is decoding.

I called the Yamaha brand goods being more dynamic a load of crap.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I


I called the Yamaha brand goods being more dynamic a load of crap.

Oopsies! I missed that.

I’m just asking for some metrics explaining.

 

[mazersteven]

 

[Trebdp83]

I can’t be sure, but I think I just saw the OP at a pawn shop. He grabbed a Sony STR-DN1080 and said “F#%k it!” I’m not judgin’, it was a sweet deal.

 

[Timforhifi]

I have many setups in my house as well

canton chrono sl 5.1.4 setup with denon 6700

canton vento 7.2.4 setup with onkyo rz920

canton chrono 3.1 setup with pioneer 502

martin Logan motion xt 5.1 setup with marantz 7011

energy veritas 3.1 setup with Yamaha 3070

focal 2ch setup as well with vintage gear.

I bring in new gear to try and see if I can get any kind of improvement. With audyssey engaged you’ll see a huge difference with bass. My Rythmik fv18 sounded flatter and more balanced with a loss in 8-10db in peak spl. These dynamics are only noticed at reference levels. Not everyone wants to hear a demo at over 125db. If you play from 75-85db with peaks of 105db then it’s not really going to matter what avr you get. They’ll sound similar

 

[lovinthehd]

I have many setups in my house as well

canton chrono sl 5.1.4 setup with denon 6700

canton vento 7.2.4 setup with onkyo rz920

canton chrono 3.1 setup with pioneer 502

martin Logan motion xt 5.1 setup with marantz 7011

energy veritas 3.1 setup with Yamaha 3070

focal 2ch setup as well with vintage gear.

I bring in new gear to try and see if I can get any kind of improvement. With audyssey engaged you’ll see a huge difference with bass. My Rythmik fv18 sounded flatter and more balanced with a loss in 8-10db in peak spl. These dynamics are only noticed at reference levels. Not everyone wants to hear a demo at over 125db. If you play from 75-85db with peaks of 105db then it’s not really going to matter what avr you get. They’ll sound similar

Okay so we're about even there. Now how are you defining these superior dynamics in Yamaha gear over others?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have many setups in my house as well

canton chrono sl 5.1.4 setup with denon 6700

canton vento 7.2.4 setup with onkyo rz920

canton chrono 3.1 setup with pioneer 502

martin Logan motion xt 5.1 setup with marantz 7011

energy veritas 3.1 setup with Yamaha 3070

focal 2ch setup as well with vintage gear.

I bring in new gear to try and see if I can get any kind of improvement. With audyssey engaged you’ll see a huge difference with bass. My Rythmik fv18 sounded flatter and more balanced with a loss in 8-10db in peak spl. These dynamics are only noticed at reference levels. Not everyone wants to hear a demo at over 125db. If you play from 75-85db with peaks of 105db then it’s not really going to matter what avr you get. They’ll sound similar

Ok. So audyssey is notorious for setting bass flat. Did you bump the level up? Measure it with rew etc? A loss of 10db?? How does THAT happen?

Also, how does that make Yamaha a more dynamic receiver???

 

[Timforhifi]

I wasn’t really saying denon or marantz were bad. If you’re a novice and want best possible sound most will just run audyssey and leave it alone.

I absolutely add 6-8db to subs after running audyssey. If you go too far though you’ll notice a muddy sound with distortion. That’s even with running no dynamic eq. Even with doing that with audyssey engaged you’ll still see way less spl then others. Audyssey will eq at a max up or down 9db to get flattest frequency response. If you turn it up too loud some frequency will distort. For example you have a null at 60hz and audyssey adds 9db but a peak at 25hz, so let’s take away 9db. It’s flatter now but then we turn it up to reference and some movie has massive dynamics at 60hz and you hear your sub rattle or pop because we are boosted too high at that frequency for that certain sub. Audyssey is the only room eq to make this happen in my years of testing.

I used an arcam avr850 and lexicon rv6 with Dirac and got fantastic results. Just so many choices, so I don’t limit my opinions. Fwiw my denon and marantz setups sound excellent with audyssey off.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I wasn’t really saying denon or marantz were bad. If you’re a novice and want best possible sound most will just run audyssey and leave it alone.

I absolutely add 6-8db to subs after running audyssey. If you go too far though you’ll notice a muddy sound with distortion. That’s even with running no dynamic eq. Even with doing that with audyssey engaged you’ll still see way less spl then others. Audyssey will eq at a max up or down 9db to get flattest frequency response. If you turn it up too loud some frequency will distort. For example you have a null at 60hz and audyssey adds 9db but a peak at 25hz, so let’s take away 9db. It’s flatter now but then we turn it up to reference and some movie has massive dynamics at 60hz and you hear your sub rattle or pop because we are boosted too high at that frequency for that certain sub. Audyssey is the only room eq to make this happen in my years of testing.

I used an arcam avr850 and lexicon rv6 with Dirac and got fantastic results. Just so many choices, so I don’t limit my opinions. Fwiw my denon and marantz setups sound excellent with audyssey off.

My first question is to the bolded part above. WHY?????
Also, please explain why you lost 10db max output. Was that because audyssey boosted a null, per your example? Just wondering how that’s possible. Did you verify with REW? Or the Audyssey app? Audyssey CAN boost/cut by 9db but I believe it’s much. It’s conservative in practice.
FWIW, I’m very familiar with EQing subs. Been doing it a long time, so I should be able to follow any explanation you have.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I wasn’t really saying denon or marantz were bad. If you’re a novice and want best possible sound most will just run audyssey and leave it alone.

No. But you did say Yamahas are more dynamic, and center focused. Just wanted some elaboration on those two points.