3-way active dedicated stereo listening

[Guiria]

Assembly has began. My current garage is a barn/shop in the backyard without power so daylight limits my time to build. I've got one of my daughters and son helping me glue things together.

Getting to the bracing. I used 1.5" width on the bracing because my square has a 1.5" wide arm to it, made it easy to draw out and cut. I calculated the inches of bracing used in my sketchup drawing to get the volume displacement.

Some additional bracing will be added to the back connecting the vertical braces at the center of each one. Also to the front or the port to connect all 6 sides of the enclosure.

Some thoughts on the assembly. I am doing a double baffle for the driver portion and will cut the circle and mount the deep baffle prior to attaching the front baffle. I planned on adding rockwool and running wire before mounting the side panel. I plan on mounting the baffle last. I am planning on terminal cups on the low back side of the speaker. I was planning on drilling holes through the top of the speaker between midrange and bass cabinet, threading the wires through and caulking in the holes to seal any air gaps. It seems to me a cleaner approach than having a pair of binding posts at the top of the cabinet and another at the base.

It's a slow process and my skills are very basic. Using butt joints and glue with clamping, no brad nails. Anything glaringly wrong or tips/tricks you have used I welcome them.

I have not started building the midrange enclosure yet. I'll be bracing a lot in that enclosure just to get the net volume down to .25 cubic feet. As it appears the net is close to .45 cubic feet. Below is my tinkering with sketchup. I'll be using it again, after learning the basics it isn't terrible to work with.

 

[annunaki]

It’s looking really good!! I like your design/look in general. Keep us posted!

 

[Guiria]

Frost King CF1 "No Itch" Natural Cotton Multi-Purpose Insulation, 16 x 1 x 48-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Y6SX1Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xtxXEb0C7APBQ

What are your thoughts on something like this for denim insulation? Rockwool doesn’t seem to be available anywhere in town so looking for a more simple alternative before I bite the bullet and order a 5 pack of Rockwool online.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[annunaki]

Frost King CF1 "No Itch" Natural Cotton Multi-Purpose Insulation, 16 x 1 x 48-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Y6SX1Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xtxXEb0C7APBQ

What are your thoughts on something like this for denim insulation? Rockwool doesn’t seem to be available anywhere in town so looking for a more simple alternative before I bite the bullet and order a 5 pack of Rockwool online.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you double it up it should work.

For an alternative to Rockwool, look for Thermafiber. The fire & sound rated version.

 

[Guiria]

I went with denim insulation and doubled it up to get about 1.5-2" of coverage when laying it down. It is easy to work with as well.

I've got the bass modules assembled and glued...now on to the 2-way portion with angled cuts...I am hoping that my sketchup measurements hold strong.

I was thinking about the real world benefits of my initial desire to go 3 way active. Since I'm keeping my crossover for the tweet/mid the value of using external amplification seems less and less as the project creeps along. I'm now thinking of getting a stereo receiver with some parametric EQ built in or something with auto-calibration like the Yamaha R-N803 or something similar and then using my Dayton DSP408 for the integration and EQ of the bass portion, each with their own amp.

I've been taking pictures as I go along and will some day create a dedicated build thread once it's all done.

 

[Guiria]

To summarize in case someone is jumping on this thread and hasn't read the prior posts. I'm building an active/passive 3 way speaker. Tweet and mid have a passive crossover already built. The crossover between the bass driver and mid will be active. This brings me to needing 4 channels of amplification. I have the Dayton DSP408 for setting up the active crossover and applying PEQ. I'll be using REW and the UMM-6 USB mic.

I've lately been relegated to a few hours each week working on the speakers but they are coming along. Today I was able to get one of the baffles glued on. I think a week from now the speaker cabinets will be assembled and I'll be working on finishing them. I plan on painting them white and possibly have my artisticly talented daughters customize them. Currently my goal is to have the speakers completed and everything working no later than Dec 1st. I might possibly hold out on electronic purchases until Black Friday or Cyber Monday.

In my evening spare time, I've been looking at equipment to power the system. I keep going in circles of what would be a good match.

Yamaha has some good offerings with the R-N803 or R-N602, maybe even the R-N303 as a pre/pro. Marantz has the NR1200. I was thinking Emotiva at one point but I've read some comments here lately on other threads making me second guess the brand. Outlaw is certainly in the mix for my bass modules with their 2220 monoblocks. I'm hoping to get in to the amps/pre-pro or receiver/ and record player for about $2000.

A stereo receiver is simpler with 2 channels of application built in but I have the external dsp so I feel like I'd be leaving performance on the table not running all 4 channels through the dsp. I've thought about a less powerful stereo receiver with preouts to use as a pre/pro and then buy 4 channels of amplication. My concern with that thought is that the electronics being overall inferior to a more capable receiver so net gain in SQ might not be as good?

Sources of music will be iPhone, streaming, and records. I might get a CD player down the line since I still have a decent number of CD's.

What are your must have features for a good stereo receiver or pre-pro? If you have any suggestions for pre/pro amp combo's, etc I'd be glad to hear them.

Test fitting the drivers today before gluing down the baffle.

 

[highfigh]

Assembly has began. My current garage is a barn/shop in the backyard without power so daylight limits my time to build. I've got one of my daughters and son helping me glue things together.

Why not buy a generator, so you can have some lights and power for chargers, etc?

Since you plan to paint these cabinets, I strongly suggest using screws for your butt joints with any depressions at the heads filled, to prevent blisters or visible depressions- Bondo works great for this. The cabinets will be significantly stronger and you wouldn't need to buy a brad nailer. Butt joints are great, but they have limitations- screwed joints are much stronger and would be the next best choice to cutting a dado.

 

[Guiria]

Why not buy a generator, so you can have some lights and power for chargers, etc?

Since you plan to paint these cabinets, I strongly suggest using screws for your butt joints with any depressions at the heads filled, to prevent blisters or visible depressions- Bondo works great for this. The cabinets will be significantly stronger and you wouldn't need to buy a brad nailer. Butt joints are great, but they have limitations- screwed joints are much stronger and would be the next best choice to cutting a dado.

I ran a 100 ft extension cord from an outside outlet...maybe it’s time I buy some lights. I have a Brad nailer so I’ve been using that on some of the joints but not all. I Brad nailed the baffle down on Saturday along with the glue.

I’ve used wood putty on some defects already, I’ve never worked with Bondo, I’ll have to look into it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[highfigh]

I ran a 100 ft extension cord from an outside outlet...maybe it’s time I buy some lights. I have a Brad nailer so I’ve been using that on some of the joints but not all. I Brad nailed the baffle down on Saturday along with the glue.

I’ve used wood putty on some defects already, I’ve never worked with Bondo, I’ll have to look into it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know if you're close to a store called Menard's, but they have 4' LED lights that are replacements for florescent fixtures- I replaced six 4' florescent fixtures in my garage with four of the LED version and I have more light with better coverage. Plus, they work in cold weather and draw almost nothing. Other stores sell them but the price at Menard's was less than $20 each.

Drywall screws provide better shear strength and pull the pieces together, something brads don't do. I have built a lot of speaker boxes with brads, glue-coated staples and screws. The screws always held best and I have seen stapled joints fail when the user treated the speakers like a farm animal.

 

[Guiria]

I'm seriously considering the Yamaha WXC-50 as my pre-pro, run to the DSP from the preouts, then a couple of amps. I'm considering the Crown xls drivecore 2 amps, namely 1002 for mid/tweet, and 1502 for my subs. I've also considered a pair of Outlaw 2220s and then something like a Parasound New classic 275. v2. If memory serves me right though Outlaw has some pretty good deals for Black Friday and it might be worth waiting and getting 4 monoblocks for the system. I guess the amp question is "Do I go class AB or class D". All this power will definitely be overkill as my listening space isn't huge, I'll probably have a golden triangle of 10 ft and behind the listening area is probably another 10+ feet of open room.

I'm also considering turntables from Audiotechnics or U-turn. Records are a new thing to me and apparently, it is "the audio format" to have according to my 15 yr old daughter, everyone at school has one.

 

[Guiria]

Plan for finishing:

I used a roller and put 5 coats of primer on the speakers with sanding mixed in there, it was enough to build up the seems and imperfections. Some areas I have sanded back down to the wood using 220. My plan is to use a brush and reapply primer where wood is exposed, probably two coats, then hit everything with 320 on a block and hand sanding. I have a hvlp spray gun, never used one before. From what I’ve read I plan on using floetrel as a paint thinner. I hope to get a glossy finish but not high gloss. I plan on two coats, sand with 400, another coat or two, sand with 600 and be done.

Any other recommendations are welcome.

Do I need a clear coat after paint?

How I feel about the project...So close, yet so far away...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[annunaki]

I would clear as a protective layer on the paint. Personal preference though.

 

[Guiria]

I would clear as a protective layer on the paint. Personal preference though.

Yes I am planning on clear coat. Ended up going with a matte paint. 2 coats were sprayed on. I hope to sand and smooth tonight and tomorrow spray another two coats. Depending on the finish after 4 coats will dictate more paint or moving on to a matte clear coat. Some type of water based polyurethane since I’m using an acrylic latex water based paint. So far I’m pleased with how they are turning out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Guiria]

It's been too long since posting. I just hardly spend time on a laptop anymore and life is busier than ever. The speakers were finished last year about December...the room has been coming together slowly since. I'm finally getting around to running some frequency sweeps to consider additional tuning to the system. Currently the tweet/mid are being powered by a channel on the receiver, a Yamaha HT receiver TSR-7850 (pretty basic). The 10" drivers being driven by a Crown XLS1502. I had plans to get an additional crown amp for the mid/tweet channels and then run the Dayton DSP408 for tuning but haven't decided if that would really impact the sound that much more. I don't want to leave improved sound on the table.

Let me know what you think about the frequency response. It is run using both L + R channels. Right now it is 1/12 smoothing with just the YPAO tuning, if flattening the curve more will yield audible improvement then I still may get the other amp and start to tweak the sound. My initial thoughts are:

Pretty natural house curve...not going to complain about that.

Would it be worth it to apply a bandpass boost from 100 Hz - 700 Hz (roughly) to raise that slight lull through the mentioned frequencies? Room treatments?

I've never used PEQ for more than subwoofer frequencies so not sure how flat of a curve is ideal.

Overall I think the speakers sound very good, occasionally will get sharp on the high end if really cranking the volume which surprises me because the FR doesn't show that it's "peaky" at the top end. The bass is excellent. Some tracks I think I notice that slight lull in the lower midrange.

 

[annunaki]

It's been too long since posting. I just hardly spend time on a laptop anymore and life is busier than ever. The speakers were finished last year about December...the room has been coming together slowly since. I'm finally getting around to running some frequency sweeps to consider additional tuning to the system. Currently the tweet/mid are being powered by a channel on the receiver, a Yamaha HT receiver TSR-7850 (pretty basic). The 10" drivers being driven by a Crown XLS1502. I had plans to get an additional crown amp for the mid/tweet channels and then run the Dayton DSP408 for tuning but haven't decided if that would really impact the sound that much more. I don't want to leave improved sound on the table.

Let me know what you think about the frequency response. It is run using both L + R channels. Right now it is 1/12 smoothing with just the YPAO tuning, if flattening the curve more will yield audible improvement then I still may get the other amp and start to tweak the sound. My initial thoughts are:

Pretty natural house curve...not going to complain about that.

Would it be worth it to apply a bandpass boost from 100 Hz - 700 Hz (roughly) to raise that slight lull through the mentioned frequencies? Room treatments?

I've never used PEQ for more than subwoofer frequencies so not sure how flat of a curve is ideal.

Overall I think the speakers sound very good, occasionally will get sharp on the high end if really cranking the volume which surprises me because the FR doesn't show that it's "peaky" at the top end. The bass is excellent. Some tracks I think I notice that slight lull in the lower midrange.

View attachment 50096View attachment 50099View attachment 50101View attachment 50100

Looking good!

Did you try nearfield response measurements at all in room, single speaker?
Or even better, try measuring outside?
That approach will help determine how much is crossover vs room response.

 

[Guiria]

Looking good!

Did you try nearfield response measurements at all in room, single speaker?
Or even better, try measuring outside?
That approach will help determine how much is crossover vs room response.

Good point, Will try nearfield first since these are upstairs and weigh enough to make it unmotivating to take outside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alex2507]

Really good looking speaker.
I hate you now.

 

[Pogre]

Wow. Great job! Those look fantastic!