Ascend Acoustic Ribbon Towers

[shadyJ]

The speaker does not have the characteristics of a typical ported enclosure though and it looks to me as if there is something at the origin of that port giving resistance.

I think their has to be some resistance to airflow, or deliberate miss tuning to give those results. That is not a typical tuned Qb4 box by a long shot.

This sort of tuning isn't that uncommon in tower speakers. The port is a bit small to temper its output. The problem is that makes it more susceptible to turbulence if nothing is done to address the smaller port in the crossover.

 

[John Galt]

Yes, running Audyssey EQ, Reference, no custom curve. I dial it in flat and use DEQ as my curve, RLO -10 and it works really well. I haven't been brave enough to to much with the app yet.

Here's an example of the effects from a previous calibration of the different RLO settings in DEQ
View attachment 36956

I‘m running the stock Reference curve, crossed over at 80Hz, HF Roll Off 2, MRC off, frequency range limited to 8,000Hz, Dynamic EQ on, reference level offset 0. I’ve messed around a lot with custom curves etc. but that‘s where I’m at today.

I probably need a calibrated mic to run REW to really drive myself crazy

95% music and that’s all I’m considering from a critical listening perspective. Movies all sound great almost regardless of my settings in this area.

 

[lovinthehd]

I‘m running the stock Reference curve, crossed over at 80Hz, HF Roll Off 2, MRC off, frequency range limited to 8,000Hz, Dynamic EQ on, reference level offset 0. I’ve messed around a lot with custom curves etc. but that‘s where I’m at today.

I probably need a calibrated mic to run REW to really drive myself crazy

95% music and that’s all I’m considering from a critical listening perspective. Movies all sound great almost regardless of my settings in this area.

Interesting you're going with 0 RLO setting for music. Don't know if you've seen but here's Audyssey's take on use:

Dynamic EQ and Reference Level

What is Dynamic EQ and reference level?

audyssey.zendesk.com

 

[panteragstk]

I love how half this thread is people seriously discussing speakers/EQ and the other half is @Danzilla31 and a few others making it weird...in a good way

Threads like this are gold.

@Pogre seems to be good at starting these. Granted, the beginning is usually him spending money on something new that allows us to enjoy vicariously, but still.

 

[Danzilla31]

I love how half this thread is people seriously discussing speakers/EQ and the other half is @Danzilla31 and a few others making it weird...in a good way

Threads like this are gold.

@Pogre seems to be good at starting these. Granted, the beginning is usually him spending money on something new that allows us to enjoy vicariously, but still.

Yep Pogre has a gift for starting these types of threads

In my defense I was totally wanting to be serious but everybody likes triggering my port um ahem cough cough ..... problem condition whatever it is

 

[Danzilla31]

I love how half this thread is people seriously discussing speakers/EQ and the other half is @Danzilla31 and a few others making it weird...in a good way

Threads like this are gold.

@Pogre seems to be good at starting these. Granted, the beginning is usually him spending money on something new that allows us to enjoy vicariously, but still.

Besides we are all hanging out spending time doing something we are passionate about

Why shouldn't we have a little fun while we're at it ya know?

 

[TLS Guy]

This sort of tuning isn't that uncommon in tower speakers. The port is a bit small to temper its output. The problem is that makes it more susceptible to turbulence if nothing is done to address the smaller port in the crossover.

I don't think there is any way to address that in the crossover. There is something unusual about the tuning. For sure it is NOT a Qb4 box. It is behaving like a sealed box and then rolling off like a vented box lower down the frequency range. I sure would like to closely examine that port and what is either placed in it or behind it. As I say the only time I have seen that behavior is with the old Dynaudio Variovent. I think something similar is going on here. When they were heavily in the DIY market, they used to sell those resistive Variovents.

 

[TLS Guy]

Here we go. Look what I have just dug up. This is what is going on here.

Ted Jordan published the 1st paper (i believe) in Wireless World, February 1956, "A Cabinet of Reduced Size With Better Low-frequency Performance", and the 1st commercial products were the Goodmans ARUs (Acoustical resistance Units). The Dynaco A25 & A10 are probably the 2 most successful aperiodic designs (plans now available on my website). Bill Perkins of PEARL did a lot of research on aperiodic loading during the development of his PR-2. Besides lowering the Q wrt a sealed box of the same size, its biggest benefit is a flattening of the impedance curve, including a flattening of the 1st derivative of the impedance curve. This produces a less reactive loudspeaker which most amps will find easier to drive.

At that time Ted, was chief research engineer for Goodmans loudspeakers.

 

[Beave]

I love how half this thread is people seriously discussing speakers/EQ and the other half is @Danzilla31 and a few others making it weird...in a good way

The duality of human nature, or at least, the duality of speaker enthusiasts!

 

[Beave]

I don't think there is any way to address that in the crossover. There is something unusual about the tuning. For sure it is NOT a Qb4 box. It is behaving like a sealed box and then rolling off like a vented box lower down the frequency range. I sure would like to closely examine that port and what is either placed in it or behind it. As I say the only time I have seen that behavior is with the old Dynaudio Variovent. I think something similar is going on here. When they were heavily in the DIY market, they used to sell those resistive Variovents.

As I stated before, there is nothing around it inside the cabinet, just wide open space and air. The front baffle is about 4 inches away.

 

[John Galt]

Interesting you're going with 0 RLO setting for music. Don't know if you've seen but here's Audyssey's take on use:

Dynamic EQ and Reference Level

What is Dynamic EQ and reference level?

audyssey.zendesk.com

I‘m not sure that one RL setting sounds better to me than another for music. Still experimenting. Thanks.

 

[Beave]

The top compartment houses the midrange driver and is sealed off from the rest of the speaker.

The tweeter goes below it, then the two woofers, all sharing space with the bottom section, with the port on the rear near the bottom.

 

[John Galt]

Interesting you're going with 0 RLO setting for music. Don't know if you've seen but here's Audyssey's take on use:

Dynamic EQ and Reference Level

What is Dynamic EQ and reference level?

audyssey.zendesk.com

I wish someone could recommend a song or two, and a volume setting, that would clearly illustrate the different RL settings to someone without golden ears. I’d like to do some more A/B testing, but as it is I really can’t tell the difference. 0 and 15 sound slightly different to me on some material, but not different enough that I can really tell which I prefer.

 

[panteragstk]

Yep Pogre has a gift for starting these types of threads

In my defense I was totally wanting to be serious but everybody likes triggering my port um ahem cough cough ..... problem condition whatever it is

No defense needed. Makes thread more entertaining.

 

[John Galt]

Yes, running Audyssey EQ, Reference, no custom curve. I dial it in flat and use DEQ as my curve, RLO -10 and it works really well. I haven't been brave enough to to much with the app yet.

Here's an example of the effects from a previous calibration of the different RLO settings in DEQ
View attachment 36956

How can I tell which line is which RL setting?

 

[panteragstk]

Besides we are all hanging out spending time doing something we are passionate about

Why shouldn't we have a little fun while we're at it ya know?

Hence why this thread is gold buddy.

 

[panteragstk]

I wish someone could recommend a song or two, and a volume setting, that would clearly illustrate the different RL settings to someone without golden ears. I’d like to do some more A/B testing, but as it is I really can’t tell the difference. 0 and 15 sound slightly different to me on some material, but not different enough that I can really tell which I prefer.

My take is the reference level should be adjusted based how how much dynamic range there is in the recording. So an example of something to use 15 is rock from the mid 90's or so. LOTS of DRC used back then so those would probably benefit from that reference level.

If you have a good classical recording (or NIN "Hi-Fi" FLAC files from Hesitation Marks) then those will have quite a lot of dynamic range as well, so 5 should be used. I plan to play around with this myself, but honestly can't see myself changing this setting based on the content I listen to.

 

[Pogre]

How can I tell which line is which RL setting?

DEQ off is a flat response. RLO -15 will have the least effect (bumping bass frequencies from ~100 hz and down by approx + 3-ish dB) and RLO 0 will have the strongest effect (approx +10 dB). The higher you have the volume the less effect the offsets have. Blues Traveler, TOOL, STAIN'D, Chevelle... all pretty decent bass and you should be able to hear the differences. If not, you might be a candidate for REW and a mic!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I wish someone could recommend a song or two, and a volume setting, that would clearly illustrate the different RL settings to someone without golden ears. I’d like to do some more A/B testing, but as it is I really can’t tell the difference. 0 and 15 sound slightly different to me on some material, but not different enough that I can really tell which I prefer.

Find some very bass heavy music. At lower MV levels Deq will be much more pronounced. So I would start with a bass heavy song, at say MV-30. Then increase the volume.
Then switch the RLO and try again. You should notice the most difference at lower volumes.
If you look at the graphic I posted above, you can see the relationship between MV at -0(reference) and lower volumes like -30. The different RLO’s just change how much boost is applied at the lower volume levels.

 

[panteragstk]

Find some very bass heavy music. At lower MV levels Deq will be much more pronounced. So I would start with a bass heavy song, at say MV-30. Then increase the volume.
Then switch the RLO and try again. You should notice the most difference at lower volumes.
If you look at the graphic I posted above, you can see the relationship between MV at -0(reference) and lower volumes like -30. The different RLO’s just change how much boost is applied at the lower volume levels.

So, to sum up the docks posted and this summary (ha) basically the -0 (reference) level applies LESS DEQ than the other levels that are lower values? Am I getting that right?